The Rose Garden and White House happenings: What does 2024 portend?

DaveSchmidt said:

ml1 said:

The fact that TFG was lying about having the documents, and fighting like hell to keep them was always the issue. Not that he had them in his possession.

Trump’s possession of the documents was enough of an issue to form the basis of the affidavit that led to the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago:

“After an initial review of the NARA Referral, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) opened a criminal investigation to, among other things, determine how the documents with classification markings and records were removed from the White House (or any other authorized location(s) for the storage of classified materials) and came to be stored at the PREMISES: determine whether the storage location(s) at the PREMISES were authorized locations for the storage of classified information; determine whether any additional classified documents or records may have been stored in an unauthorized location at the PREMISES or another unknown location, and whether they remain at any such location; and identify any person(s) who may have removed or retained classified infmmation without authorization and/or in an unauthorized space.”

but his possession of the documents can't be separated from his refusal to turn them over. I don't think it's a stretch to say that TFG's legal exposure would have been close to nil if he had immediately sent the documents back to the archives.

tjohn said:

But is it not the case that the criminal investigation followed several requests for Trump to return the documents which he apparently refused?

I don’t think so. The affidavit refers to a criminal investigation “after an initial review of the NARA Referral,” presumably of the 15 boxes that Mar-a-Lago had returned as early as January. But criminal investigation or not, unauthorized storage of classified documents in unsecured locations is, as the affidavit notes, an issue whether or not you cooperate with their retrieval.

I think it's hard to charge someone criminally without proving intent to steal the documents. Sandy Berger got in trouble for taking classified documents because it was pretty obvious that his intent was to take papers he knew he was not entitled to possess.

Mea culpa, folks! I did not read the twitter account coverage before posting. My bad. 

To claim that Biden is old and forgetful, or is mentally incapable when it comes to these classified documents is incorrect. These documents were in his possession since he was vice president. They were not the subject of any previous request or inquiry by the Archives. Unlike trumpenstein not turning over all of the documents despite multiple attempts. 
I really don’t feel this event will damage the democrats at all. Believe it or not, most eligible voters already know how they gonna vote next year. 

mtierney said:

Mea culpa, folks! I did not read the twitter account coverage before posting. My bad. 

Nor did you apparently read the actual USC letter or, if you did, clearly did not understand it.

Jaytee said:

I really don’t feel this event will damage the democrats at all. Believe it or not, most eligible voters already know how they gonna vote next year. 

Who is running? Surely not Joe and Kamala. What other Dem prospects are out there,  BTW?

mtierney said:

Jaytee said:

I really don’t feel this event will damage the democrats at all. Believe it or not, most eligible voters already know how they gonna vote next year. 

Who is running? Surely not Joe and Kamala. What other Dem prospects are out there,  BTW?

Donald Trump and John Bolton are the only big name candidates who have thrown their hats into the ring so far, and the election is 21 months away. You're going to vote for whoever is on the Republican ticket and many people here will vote for whoever is on the Democratic ticket, which is what Jaytee meant by saying "how they gonna vote" and not "who they gonna vote."

I'd vote for a canned ham for president if it was the Democratic nominee

ml1 said:

I'd vote for a canned ham for president if it was the Democratic nominee

...he said, channeling Dave Letterman.

I doubt I will be voting for anyone but rather voting against whatever nightmare the Republicans manage to scrape off the floor of the worst truck stop bathroom in the Confederacy. 

ETA: I was going to post a picture of the loo from Trainspotting but it was just too gross. 

GoSlugs said


ETA: I was going to post a picture of the loo from Trainspotting but it was just too gross. 

That must really be something — considering the level of prurience
you both seem to revel in

ml1 said:

I'd vote for a canned ham for president if it was the Democratic nominee

At least a canned ham would be the “butt” of fewer jokes.

funny optical illusions in that drawing (the way the panelling blends into the back of the man’s head,  like an extension of his head, etc) 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-14/fema-fires-group-for-nonsensical-alaska-native-translations/101855584    Government translations of Alaskan First Nations languages, for essential documentation.

Oh heavens, this bad  SNAFU makes me laugh!! Partly because I spent a very large part of my editing career proofreading such work - in English, in the 10 standard overseas non-English languages our government covered, and a couple of First Nations languages - and partly because I’ve proofread style manuals and dictionaries. Rule #1 in all such work: allow time for qualified human back-translation. Yep, even now!!

What makes me want to cry is how hurtful, insensitive and unthinking this blatant money-making exercise is.  Bad enough that the filler-text used is so old-fashioned and ridiculous but no-one could be bothered to check it, ever???   That’s your taxes they’ve wasted!

@mtierney, a little while ago you mentioned Christine Keeler. I thought you might be interested in this article about John Stonehouse, and the tv program about him. (The ABC mentioned is Australian not US)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-16/truth-john-stonehouse-british-mp-fake-death-drama-series/101840138

Back in the USA, a little humor goes a long way!

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/buckleys-corner-stoves-and-serious-unseriousness/

Excerpt..

“We at NR have spent a great deal of time and ink on gas stoves this past week — some would say too much. But there are moments in the state-citizen relationship that matter more than the superficial impression of the subject at hand, and a bureaucrat’s idle toying with the idea of a federal proscription on Americans’ cooktops is foundational because it’s a drone strike into the home — the private sphere.

“We have a firm divide in our minds between what can be done within and without the home. We accept all sorts of strictures on our public selves, from how we transport ourselves (traffic laws) and enforce public order (police action) to how we work (HR and OSHA). However, coming into our living rooms or garages and telling us how we illuminate and cook is unacceptable and will not go well.

“We’re the descendants of tea-tossers, after all — fellows who understood that government action which doesn’t answer to us in any meaningful way is unjust and reprehensible.”

For full disclosure, I cooked with electric and gas in two  different homes for some 40 years in Maplewood. Gas barbecue grills in both backyards. 

Currently, I have a rarely-used gas stove (as I am no longer feeding a family of six daily).

However. I will become an activist if anyone thinks my microwave is next on the political chopping block!

Mtierney,

You do understand that those of us not at the lunatic fringes of the gas stove discussion understand that gas stoves are a source of indoor air pollution but not a cause for panic.

We also understand that human greenhouse gas emissions are a huge problem and that over time, we need to move away from ALL fossil fuel use.

We also understand that, as usual, poor people living in cramped housing are more afflicted by indoor air pollution that those of us with large, well-ventilated homes.

And with that, I will leave you to your ignorance and efforts to sanctify priests who sheltered pedophiles.

mtierney said:

Back in the USA, a little humor goes a long way!

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/buckleys-corner-stoves-and-serious-unseriousness/

So not going to read trash from the National Review. You demean yourself by posting this garbage. 

(NOTE FOR THE REAL VICTIM: To be clear, I am, in no way, prohibiting you from posting this rubbish. I am simply alerting you to the fact that you are, in doing so, making a fool of yourself. A public service, if you will, for someone who seems to lack a certain self awareness). 

After Ida killed our gas-powered dryer, we replaced it and our stove with electric ones so now only our heat is gas-powered. I'm not a fan of electric stoves, but I got used to it over a couple of months and now I'm totally happy with it, so whatever.

mtierney said:

Back in the USA, a little humor goes a long way!

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/buckleys-corner-stoves-and-serious-unseriousness/

Excerpt..

“We at NR have spent a great deal of time and ink on gas stoves this past week — some would say too much. But there are moments in the state-citizen relationship that matter more than the superficial impression of the subject at hand, and a bureaucrat’s idle toying with the idea of a federal proscription on Americans’ cooktops is foundational because it’s a drone strike into the home — the private sphere.

“We have a firm divide in our minds between what can be done within and without the home. We accept all sorts of strictures on our public selves, from how we transport ourselves (traffic laws) and enforce public order (police action) to how we work (HR and OSHA). However, coming into our living rooms or garages and telling us how we illuminate and cook is unacceptable and will not go well.

“We’re the descendants of tea-tossers, after all — fellows who understood that government action which doesn’t answer to us in any meaningful way is unjust and reprehensible.”

For full disclosure, I cooked with electric and gas in two  different homes for some 40 years in Maplewood. Gas barbecue grills in both backyards. 

Currently, I have a rarely-used gas stove (as I am no longer feeding a family of six daily).

However. I will become an activist if anyone thinks my microwave is next on the political chopping block!

wait, where's the humor?

Well, we all (or most) gradually stopped using wood- and coal-fired stoves, and i imagine gas stoves will also gradually be seen as outdated/hazardous/not the way to go.  (Having had 6 months' experience with an electric stove at one time, i don't look fwd to the change, but maybe i will predecease....)

Overall, gas vs. electric, i was raised to understand that electric heating/cooking/drying was extravagantly expensive compared to gas, but presumably i will get over that.

Meanwhile, here in the frozen north, some of our electric power still comes from coal, so maybe i don't need to feel too bad about continuing to use gas for a while.

We're currently rockin' a Frigidaire induction stove, least expensive Consumer Reports-recommended induction stove and are really satisfied so far. As a frequent pasta boiler, I'm tickled with the quick heat. Also air-fries in oven compartment. Takes some getting used to but no regrets. No need to immediately buy magnetic cookware as a mag disc placed under a non-mag pot works fine (if a bit longer to heat).

GL2 said:

We're currently rockin' a Frigidaire induction stove, least expensive Consumer Reports-recommended induction stove and are really satisfied so far. As a frequent pasta boiler, I'm tickled with the quick heat. Also air-fries in oven compartment. Takes some getting used to but no regrets. No need to immediately buy magnetic cookware as a mag disc placed under a non-mag pot works fine (if a bit longer to heat).

Welcome back, GL2!

I hope you got this article at a 50% discount because you only displayed 50% of it. 

Given that it appears to be National Review garbage (which you are absolutely entitled to humiliate yourself by posting) you were had either way. 

How embarrassing!

mtierney said:

GL2 said:

We're currently rockin' a Frigidaire induction stove, least expensive Consumer Reports-recommended induction stove and are really satisfied so far. As a frequent pasta boiler, I'm tickled with the quick heat. Also air-fries in oven compartment. Takes some getting used to but no regrets. No need to immediately buy magnetic cookware as a mag disc placed under a non-mag pot works fine (if a bit longer to heat).

Welcome back, GL2!

Thank you. Very kind. 

From the end of mtierney's NR clip, above: 

"By the way, notice how Biden’s initial answer on the document controversy makes it sound like his office was at the main university, then makes it sound like it’s in the U.S. Capitol Building, and then again insists that he was a professor: “When my lawyers were clearing out my office at the University of Pennsylvania, they set up an office for me — a secure office in the Capitol, when I — the four years after being Vice President

eta re: using lawyers for moving - Somebody on NPR the other day (somebody they brought in to discuss classified documents) suggested just that:  when moving, officials would do well to have attorney(s) on site to vet documents.  Say you have a ring binder with page after page of innocuous stuff at the front, then some classified pages....  The speaker also was of the opinion that way too much stuff gets classified.

mtierney said:

What excerpts get past the pay wall at CNN? NR PLUS MEMBER FULL VIEW On the menu today: One of the reasons that White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre keeps getting hit with questions about the classified documents found in Biden’s home and private office is due to her vague explanation of how and why they were discovered there. In 2018, former vice president Biden announced the creation of the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement in Washington, D.C., the second new university-affiliated institution named after him in a year. And yet, by November 2022, the Biden team was preparing to “vacate office space” at the Penn Biden Center. Why? What prompted that move? And who decided that one of Biden’s personal lawyers should go through his old papers at that time? The Penn Biden Center Mystery Why was one of President Biden’s personal lawyers going through his papers at the Penn Biden Center in November? Jonathan Turley cracks, “It seems a fairly pricey moving crew.”

If they seriously think that, and aren't just being intellectually dishonest, then they're idiots.

Here's a possible explanation: "We're clearing out the papers from Biden's time as VP.  Let's play it safe when we go through them."

Similarly, the National Review column thinks it's significant that "Biden’s lawyer felt comfortable opening a manilla folder labeled 'VP personal.'" If they were Biden's personal lawyer sent personally by Biden to go through his files, that's not significant at all.

nohero said:

mtierney said:

What excerpts get past the pay wall at CNN? NR PLUS MEMBER FULL VIEW On the menu today: One of the reasons that White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre keeps getting hit with questions about the classified documents found in Biden’s home and private office is due to her vague explanation of how and why they were discovered there. In 2018, former vice president Biden announced the creation of the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement in Washington, D.C., the second new university-affiliated institution named after him in a year. And yet, by November 2022, the Biden team was preparing to “vacate office space” at the Penn Biden Center. Why? What prompted that move? And who decided that one of Biden’s personal lawyers should go through his old papers at that time? The Penn Biden Center Mystery Why was one of President Biden’s personal lawyers going through his papers at the Penn Biden Center in November? Jonathan Turley cracks, “It seems a fairly pricey moving crew.”

If they seriously think that, and aren't just being intellectually dishonest, then they're idiots.

Here's a possible explanation: "We're clearing out the papers from Biden's time as VP.  Let's play it safe when we go through them."

Similarly, the National Review column thinks it's significant that "Biden’s lawyer felt comfortable opening a manilla folder labeled 'VP personal.'" If they were Biden's personal lawyer sent personally by Biden to go through his files, that's not significant at all.

they know they are writing for people who not only don't read skeptically, they 100% want to believe it