The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Listening to voters’ concerns
From the responses, I assume no one read the link…
Excerpts:
“we like to meet our neighbors,” Taub said. “I want my children to learn that everyone is a human being and a friend. I also want my kids to learn about sharing. In Russia, where I’m from, people share more, and I want my kids to grow up knowing sharing.”
“It is not clear if DePape and Taub were ever actually a couple. In 2013, SFGate.com published a story about Taub’s plan to get married in the nude during a ceremony on the steps of San Francisco’s City Hall. But not to DePape. Rather, she was marrying a man named Jaymz Smith, who was “half her age, minus two,” according to the outlet. She said she was attracted to Smith because he had the spirit of “her long-dead lover Sergey, reincarnated.”
“But DePape appears to have been included in the nuptials. A man who appears to be DePape – spelled in the story as dePappe – was described as “a hemp jewelry maker and father figure who will double as best man.” The story states that Taub, Smith, DePape, and Taub’s three kids, all lived together in a “an upstairs Berkeley Victorian flat that is perpetually freezing.”
“DePape appears to have sporadically published to a blog, godisloving.wordpress.com, where he wrote about God’s love, and railed against censorship, communists, and the “elites/ruling class.” The blog is titled “Welcome to Big Brothers Censorship Hell.”
“The founding father built in protection against censorship coming from the goverment [sic] because they never imagined a day when Tech giants and private industry would be so powerful they could single handedly silence the people,” the blog states.
“The blog appears to have been updated only during two periods, in August 2022 and in June 2007. The 2007 posts are mostly about God: “God accepts you, EVEN when you don’t accept yourself. God accepts you, EVEN when NOBODY else accepts you. And god accepts others. God accepts others EVEN when YOU don’t accept them.”
“The 2022 posts – mostly memes and videos protesting government censorship – are more political in nature, though not specifically partisan. One meme read, “Exposing communist collusion to push a pro communist propaganda narrative is against Big Brothers guidelines. You need to sit down and shut up and swallow our [expletive] communist opinions. Those who do not comply will be censored off the internet and have their livelyhoods [sic] destroyed”
In my opinion, being nuts does not give someone a free pass to get away with attempted murder. Let’s see, however, if the SF prosecutor releases him with no bail.
The Washington Post confirmed that a voluminous blog written under DePape’s name and filled with deeply antisemitic writings — as well as pro-Trump and anti-Democratic posts — was registered to a house in Richmond, Calif. where DePape lives, according to neighbors.
I'm not surprised.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/10/28/paul-pelosi-attack-san-francisco/
And Tulsi. Their new pet:
In a single day earlier this month, the blog had seven new posts. The titles included: “Balcks Nda jEwS,” “Were the Germans so Stupid?” “Who FINANCED Hitler’s rise to Power” “Gas chamber doors” and “I guess this is as good a time as any.” The latter implored Trump to pick Rep. Tulsi Gabbard as his running mate for 2024.
Also -
In his posts, he cast doubt on the validity of the 2020 election — sharing pillow pusher and Trump lickspittle Mike Lindell’s absurd videos. And he defended the Trump rioters who stormed the Capitol.
mtierney said:
“DePape appears to have sporadically published to a blog, godisloving.wordpress.com, where he wrote about God’s love, and railed against censorship, communists, and the “elites/ruling class.” The blog is titled “Welcome to Big Brothers Censorship Hell.”
“The founding father built in protection against censorship coming from the goverment [sic] because they never imagined a day when Tech giants and private industry would be so powerful they could single handedly silence the people,” the blog states.
“The blog appears to have been updated only during two periods, in August 2022 and in June 2007. The 2007 posts are mostly about God: “God accepts you, EVEN when you don’t accept yourself. God accepts you, EVEN when NOBODY else accepts you. And god accepts others. God accepts others EVEN when YOU don’t accept them.”
“The 2022 posts – mostly memes and videos protesting government censorship – are more political in nature, though not specifically partisan. One meme read, “Exposing communist collusion to push a pro communist propaganda narrative is against Big Brothers guidelines. You need to sit down and shut up and swallow our [expletive] communist opinions. Those who do not comply will be censored off the internet and have their livelyhoods [sic] destroyed”
That's mainstream MAGA.
“Welcome to Big Brothers Censorship Hell” is the alternative title for Tucker Carlson Tonight. As nohero said, this is mainstream MAGA, not mental illness, and for others likening MAGA to a mental illness - I live in a stigma-free town. They may have been sold a bunch of obvious lies, but they decided to buy them anyway. It takes two to propaganda.
ridski said:
“Welcome to Big Brothers Censorship Hell” is the alternative title for Tucker Carlson Tonight. As nohero said, this is mainstream MAGA, not mental illness, and for others likening MAGA to a mental illness - I live in a stigma-free town. They may have been sold a bunch of obvious lies, but they decided to buy them anyway. It takes two to propaganda.
As I said previously, considering all the information and evidence shouldn't we consider mainstream MAGA to be a sign of mental illness? I do.
Also, consider the MAGA movement to be a cult. Since when is a cult not a mental illness?
RTrent said:
As I said previously, considering all the information and evidence shouldn't we consider mainstream MAGA to be a sign of mental illness? I do.
Also, consider the MAGA movement to be a cult. Since when is a cult not a mental illness?
You can leave a cult. People do that all the time. It's not a sign of mental illness. Please don't conflate the two.
RTrent said:
As I said previously, considering all the information and evidence shouldn't we consider mainstream MAGA to be a sign of mental illness? I do.
Also, consider the MAGA movement to be a cult. Since when is a cult not a mental illness?
it's not mental illness. These people are not suffering from hallucinations or delusions. They have been sold an alternate reality through propaganda and misinformation.
ridski said:
RTrent said:
As I said previously, considering all the information and evidence shouldn't we consider mainstream MAGA to be a sign of mental illness? I do.
Also, consider the MAGA movement to be a cult. Since when is a cult not a mental illness?
You can leave a cult. People do that all the time. It's not a sign of mental illness. Please don't conflate the two.
But I disagree, it is s sign of mental illness. Their delusions (unaccepting of reality or facts), their paranoia (deepstate anyone?), their worship of a leader.
For example the Jonestown cult. Were they not mentally ill to be in and believe in that movement? Even if a few wanted to leave? So, what if a very few leave the MAGA cult.
ml1 said:
RTrent said:
As I said previously, considering all the information and evidence shouldn't we consider mainstream MAGA to be a sign of mental illness? I do.
Also, consider the MAGA movement to be a cult. Since when is a cult not a mental illness?
it's not mental illness. These people are not suffering from hallucinations or delusions. They have been sold an alternate reality through propaganda and misinformation.
Why are they susceptible to alternate reality? And isn't alternate reality a form of delusion?
I think you have to be careful about labeling any untoward behavior as a mental illness, mostly because it tends to remove agency, absolving people for any responsibility for their behavior.
The existence of MAGA types is a complex phenomenon. Labeling it as mental illness prevents us from really understanding it.
drummerboy said:
I think you have to be careful about labeling any untoward behavior as a mental illness, mostly because it tends to remove agency, absolving people for any responsibility for their behavior.
The existence of MAGA types is a complex phenomenon. Labeling it as mental illness prevents us from really understanding it.
Your point is well written but mental illness does not absolve. We should not excuse their behavior. We see that in criminal law where mental illness modifies behavior but often does not absolve or excuse.
If we automatically absolve real criminals with mental issues our jails would be largely empty. With real, I mean those who commit actual crimes unlike some others who get jailed because there was an interaction some cop found unpleasant.
Their illnesses can affect their behavior, but rarely do such illnesses remove from them all ability to choose what they say or do.
ml1 said:
it's not mental illness. These people are not suffering from hallucinations or delusions. They have been sold an alternate reality through propaganda and misinformation.
And what do you call the far left, but an alternate reality?
Does Putin’s belief that Ukraine belongs to Russia his “truth”? Your “truth” is not everyone’s “truth”. There are as many belief systems out there as there are waves on the sea.
What is lacking in the current political climate is respect and tolerance, replaced by denigration and ridicule.
In a true democratic society — before social networking gave every nut job a platform to vent on — there was something else in play: common sense.
For example: If someone decides they want to get marry, naked, on the steps of the San Francisco Courthouse, with family. friends, and kids in attendance, they can do so. Rules about public nudity — if they still exist — don’t count. The nudist’s rights supersede the rights of everyone else’s.
Before anyone asks, I do not believe turning our sidewalks in homeless encampments is an acceptable approach for either the homeless or others. In CA, washing machines are being hooked up at encampments to city water. Folks have to pick up their pets’ poopoo, but humans can relieve themselves anywhere they chose.
This is no way to run a society, unless it is into the ground.
mtierney said:
And what do you call the far left, but an alternate reality?
Does Putin’s belief that Ukraine belongs to Russia his “truth”? Your “truth” is not everyone’s “truth”. There are as many belief systems out there as there are waves on the sea.
What is lacking in the current political climate is respect and tolerance, replaced by denigration and ridicule.
In a true democratic society — before social networking gave every nut job a platform to vent on — there was something else in play: common sense.
For example: If someone decides they want to get marry, naked, on the steps of the San Francisco Courthouse, with family. friends, and kids in attendance, they can do so. Rules about public nudity — if they still exist — don’t count. The nudist’s rights supersede the rights of everyone else’s.
Before anyone asks, I do not believe turning our sidewalks in homeless encampments is an acceptable approach for either the homeless or others. In CA, washing machines are being hooked up at encampments to city water. Folks have to pick up their pets’ poopoo, but humans can relieve themselves anywhere they chose.
This is no way to run a society, unless it is into the ground.
You support a movement that sent an armed mob into the capitol to kill people. Your first response on hearing that someone attacked the Speaker of the House's husband, and was looking to kill the Speaker, was to try and change the subject. Incredibly, you're now wanting to talk about nudity, trying desperately to change the subject yet again.
No, you do not get to talk about how our current political climate is lacking in respect and tolerance.
mtierney said:
And what do you call the far left, but an alternate reality?
Does Putin’s belief that Ukraine belongs to Russia his “truth”? Your “truth” is not everyone’s “truth”. There are as many belief systems out there as there are waves on the sea.
wait, what? When did right wingers like yourself become moral relativists? I thought moral relativism was anathema to people on the right. I thought according to them there are immutable rights and wrongs, regardless of anyone's "truth."
and I can't answer your first question without knowing who you are calling "the far left." If it's Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren on your version of the "far left" then no, they are not adhering to an alternate reality. Their reality is infinitely more real than whatever version you belong to.
RTrent said:
ml1 said:
RTrent said:
As I said previously, considering all the information and evidence shouldn't we consider mainstream MAGA to be a sign of mental illness? I do.
Also, consider the MAGA movement to be a cult. Since when is a cult not a mental illness?
it's not mental illness. These people are not suffering from hallucinations or delusions. They have been sold an alternate reality through propaganda and misinformation.
Why are they susceptible to alternate reality? And isn't alternate reality a form of delusion?
no, there are clinical definitions of psychotic delusions, and they don't apply to the typical MAGA. Just because someone has chosen a belief system of lies doesn't mean they are mentally ill. Given what they believe their actions are actually quite rational. If you believe that "communism" is destroying the U.S. and every value that you hold, and your way of life is under attack, it's perfectly rational to retaliate against the people you have been told are responsible. Someone like Nancy Pelosi who has been described by people on the right in the most extreme terms is a logical target for those in the MAGA universe.
The typical MAGA has the belief that the last election was fixed. Even though the evidence, thorough forensic audits and judicial hearings, shows no fix. Many also believe that there is a deep state which Trump is fighting.
Why are they delusions?
The definition -
A delusion is a strongly-held or fixed false belief that conflicts with reality. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th Edition (DSM-5) defines delusions as fixed beliefs that are not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/delusions-5113070
Definitely the typical MAGA.
RTrent said:
The typical MAGA has the belief that the last election was fixed. Even though the evidence, thorough forensic audits and judicial hearings, shows no fix. Many also believe that there is a deep state which Trump is fighting.
Why are they delusions?
The definition -
A delusion is a strongly-held or fixed false belief that conflicts with reality. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th Edition (DSM-5) defines delusions as fixed beliefs that are not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/delusions-5113070
Definitely the typical MAGA.
from your link:
Delusions are a common symptom of psychotic disorders such as schizophrenia, delusional disorder, and schizoaffective disorder. They can also be present in other psychiatric disorders, including major depressive disorder with psychotic features and mania in bipolar disorder.
Delusions alone are not sufficient to conclude that someone has any of those mental illnesses. They are only one symptom among many.
And as db mentioned, calling MAGAs mentally ill lets them off the hook for their actions. They are not so delusional that they don't know what they are doing. They know full well what the consequences of their actions are.
Our beliefs are mostly based on our confidence in our chosen authority figures. News sources, pundits, political leaders, intellectuals, authors, whatever. We form our reality based on what they say, mixed with varying amounts of our own analytical abilities that try to make sense of all of that information and formulate what constitutes our world view.
MAGAs problem is not that they believe false things. It's that they've chosen their authority figures really, really badly. For some reason, they can't tell when someone is conning them. For some of us, even if we had never heard of Trump before, we could tell within a few minutes of listening to him that he was FOS.
That, I think, is their primary "defect", and it's why propaganda works and why authoritarianism is so popular to them. They make up the population with an authoritarian personality.
Poke around on this site
Some MAGA people seem to be paranoid and paranoia is a symptom of mental illness. I would put the attacker of Mr Pelosi in this group. Also: the former president.
MakeAmericaGreat was never the goal of Pelosi’s attacker, who has been described as a pedofile, abused by his “wife”, and a nut job for most of his life. When society permits the diaspora of homeless individuals to live on our streets in filth, blocking sidewalks, and threatening passerbys, that society has failed to take care of those in need. Allowing defacto permission for the behavior is cruel, if one purports to care about the mentally ill.
More than 73 million citizens chose not to vote for Mr. Biden in 2020.
The last two years have clearly shown that Biden is not fit for office, nor is the vice president. These are extremely dangerous and threatening times. What is Plan B for the Democratic party?
mtierney said:
MakeAmericaGreat was never the goal of Pelosi’s attacker, who has been described as a pedofile, abused by his “wife”, and a nut job for most of his life. When society permits the diaspora of homeless individuals to live on our streets in filth, blocking sidewalks, and threatening passerbys, that society has failed to take care of those in need. Allowing defacto permission for the behavior is cruel, if one purports to care about the mentally ill.
Millions of citizens chose not to vote for Mr. Biden. The last two years have clearly shown that he is not fit for office, nor is the vice president. These are extremely dangerous and threatening times. What is Plan B for the Democratic party?
yeah, I'm sure his desire to assassinate Nancy Pelosi had nothing to do with MAGA. He came up with that himself, I bet.
Why do Dems need a Plan B when Republicans don't even have a Plan A?
Why so chary of defending this latest attack, when you've worked so hard to avoid condemning Jan. 6th? Is it a class thing? Are you simply embarrassed by this latest attacker? If this man were dressed better, had a better job, had been say a Republican candidate or officeholder, would you be so quick to disown him? Because it's hard to believe you're bothered by his violent actions, given that even now you haven't so much as said the expected "but of course I condemn this." I don't believe you've even offered thoughts and prayers.
Slow on the uptake, mtierney! Right wing twitter has been diverting with this take since Friday night!
mtierney said:
More than 73 million citizens chose not to vote for Mr. Biden in 2020.
LOL. That’s how elections are supposed to work. Sorry. If you remember, more citizens chose not to vote for Trump TWICE. The Cult of Trump is, and always was, a minority. And because of him, Republicans, by aligning themselves with former President Crimes are also a minority in this country. And while in your mind you may have distanced yourself from that narcissist’s tinpot regime, the stench of the foul excuse of a President you helped rule over us will forever follow you and all other Republicans, even the ones on the January 6th committee.
mtierney said:
The last two years have clearly shown that Biden is not fit for office, nor is the vice president.
I'll bet either of them could remember "person. man. woman. camera. TV." So just as fit as TFG.
ml1 said:
I'll bet either of them could remember "person. man. woman. camera. TV." So just as fit as TFG.
bet Biden nor Kamala can say “covfefe”
One of the many problems with MAGA rhetoric is that it inspires some people who are mentally ill or on the edge of mental illness to act out and attack the Speaker of the House or attack the pizzeria that was the front for the pedophile ring. @mtierney, after years of "republicans" portraying Nancy Pelosi as being out to destroy America, what would you expect to happen?
Yes, constantly saying Biden is unfit for office, constantly saying Kamala Harris is unfit for office, constantly saying Nancy Pelosi is a traitor and traitors should be executed…and now it’s just a home invasion. MT just doesn’t care about anyone who is a democrat. Period. She probably would vote for MT Greene if she could. Then uses the Bible as a crutch. Damn hypocrite.
dave said:
Some MAGA people seem to be paranoid and paranoia is a symptom of mental illness. I would put the attacker of Mr Pelosi in this group. Also: the former president.
Some? It seems all the MAGA's believe Trump was unfairly thrown out of office through a rigged election. Even though there is abundant evidence that did not happen.
Do they feel persecuted by Democrats or the deep state who they believe rigged it? Is their distrust of the election reviews and audits and judicial court hearings rational?
Google search gave me the following definition -
often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason.
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Would you say that it's a good idea, or a bad one, to gather a large group of these individuals together, work them up, then point them at the capitol building while Congress in session?
What kind of person would do such a thing, right? And what kind of person would defend, deflect, or excuse such irresponsible behavior?