The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Listening to voters’ concerns
Smedley said:
You make it sound easy breezy, but as always the devil is in the details.
What "vital needful populations" aren't supported by the government now but should be?
And, where do you draw the line? What's the first group/cause that doesn't make the vital needful population cut?
I don't make it sound easy at all. You just assume that I think that.
I am not of the opinion that if lines need be drawn that it's not worth trying. You draw lines based on what you decide to fund, and you work from there.
As for this question:
"What "vital needful populations" aren't supported by the government now but should be? "
I just have to say, are you kidding?
nohero said:
Chuck Todd is citing the number of people encountered by Customs and Border Patrol. VP Harris is saying that we need to improve our laws and systems for dealing with migrants and immigrants.
I don't know why people cannot understand that when they use the "two million" figure and ask if the border is "secure", that it means that two million people were stopped and dealt with by government officials at the border.
not true — I think the Border Control folks are the front line experts
WASHINGTON, DC – United States Customs and Border Patrol are reporting that a record number of migrants have entered illegally into the US during the past twelve months.
“They estimate over two million have made the trek from Mexico into the US during this fiscal year.
“The Southwest Border Land Encounters reports that Border Patrol agents have apprehended over 1.6 million illegal aliens that have crossed into the country from Mexico throughout this fiscal year.
“Border agents also believe that, on top of the number of those they were able to apprehend, an estimated 400,000 more were able to escape into the country, what the agency refers to as ‘got aways.’
“A large number of people are illegally crossing through the southern border of the country with the remainder crossing through different ports of entry. The increase of illegal aliens has no doubt created a strain on the Customs and Border Patrol.”
The 13 men, women and children who drowned one day last week, crossing the swollen Rio Grande, were not aware that our immigration system was under control.
mtierney said:
not true — I think the Border Control folks are the front line experts
WASHINGTON, DC – United States Customs and Border Patrol are reporting that a record number of migrants have entered illegally into the US during the past twelve months.
“They estimate over two million have made the trek from Mexico into the US during this fiscal year.
“The Southwest Border Land Encounters reports that Border Patrol agents have apprehended over 1.6 million illegal aliens that have crossed into the country from Mexico throughout this fiscal year.
“Border agents also believe that, on top of the number of those they were able to apprehend, an estimated 400,000 more were able to escape into the country, what the agency refers to as ‘got aways.’
“A large number of people are illegally crossing through the southern border of the country with the remainder crossing through different ports of entry. The increase of illegal aliens has no doubt created a strain on the Customs and Border Patrol.”
why do you hate immigrants so much?
The solution is for Congress to provide a legal path for these folks. Not to hunt them down like animals.
The country would be better off with more immigration. Not less.
mtierney said:
The 13 men, women and children who drowned one day last week, crossing the swollen Rio Grande, were not aware that our immigration system was under control.
Your comment doesn't make any sense. It was a tragedy caused because they were trying to elude the border patrol.
mtierney said:
not true — I think the Border Control folks are the front line experts
WASHINGTON, DC – United States Customs and Border Patrol are reporting that a record number of migrants have entered illegally into the US during the past twelve months.
“They estimate over two million have made the trek from Mexico into the US during this fiscal year.
“The Southwest Border Land Encounters reports that Border Patrol agents have apprehended over 1.6 million illegal aliens that have crossed into the country from Mexico throughout this fiscal year.
“Border agents also believe that, on top of the number of those they were able to apprehend, an estimated 400,000 more were able to escape into the country, what the agency refers to as ‘got aways.’
“A large number of people are illegally crossing through the southern border of the country with the remainder crossing through different ports of entry. The increase of illegal aliens has no doubt created a strain on the Customs and Border Patrol."
So they apprehended that larger number, and estimate that there could be 400,000 others - but no indication as to how that second number compares with prior years.
We give mt too much credit. If you google the phrase "United States Customs and Border Patrol are reporting" you come up with a few dicey sources (themoose.us ?). And they link back to Breitbart as the primary source, which, I dunno, should be illegal or something.
They key here is the use of the word "illegal". I'm pretty sure the government would not characterize border crossers as illegals. (could be wrong about that)
This is not to say that the raw numbers are wrong, but that they're clearly being spun to make it seem that a horde of 2 million people crossed the border and invaded the U.S.. i.e. standard right win immigration reporting.
Meanwhile, back home, there is this “news”…
ml1 said:
ridski said:
Shouldn't we have eradicated this stupid meme by now? There's 15,466 Starbucks locations, New Jersey isn't even in the top 10 states for number of locations (though Ohio, Virginia, Colorado and Arizona is), and to top it off, out of the top 10 most popular drinks at Starbucks - 3 of them are lattes, including the NUMBER ONE MOST POPULAR DRINK IN STARBUCKS, the Vanilla Latte. Latte's aren't a liberal elite thing at all. Everyone drinks them. Jeez, I bet in the 70s Smedley pointed and laughed at quiche-eaters.
Kombucha might be a better one.
Heard a surprising factoid from Howard Schultz on Cramer last night -- 70% of Starbucks revenue is now from cold drinks. A trend that's driven by Gen Z.
And, I dig kombucha. Mango and guava are recent favorites.
drummerboy said:
ml1 said:
and one more comment. I'm not dogmatic about any of these issues. If someone can present data to me that high GDP by itself really and truly indicates more opportunity for the greatest number of people my mind would be open to the idea that less government support for social services is better.
If someone can point to good upward mobility data for the U.S., and better income equality in the U.S. compared to other developed nations, I'm open to it. And maybe I've only been exposed to "fake news" and what I think I know about a lack of opportunity for upward mobility in the U.S. is false.
Of course, all the data shows just the opposite.
Take GDP. A decent part of our GDP is health care / drug costs, both very wasteful expenses that don't do much more than make a certain class of people very wealthy by serving as useless middlemen (for health care) and government supported rent seekers (drug makers).
Countries that have national health care don't have as significant a percentage of their GDP devoted to those two industries, so their GDP's are lower. And wisely so.
Yes that's right -- "all the data shows just the opposite."
Sometimes I wish I lived in your world where everything was absolute and black/white. No nuance, gray area or ambiguity. Life would be simpler, that's for sure.
Pick a lane.
Smedley said:
You make it sound easy breezy, but as always the devil is in the details. What "vital needful populations" aren't supported by the government now but should be? And, where do you draw the line? What's the first group/cause that doesn't make the vital needful population cut?
Smedley said:
Sometimes I wish I lived in your world where everything was absolute and black/white. No nuance, gray area or ambiguity. Life would be simpler, that's for sure.
mtierney said:
Meanwhile, back home, there is this “news”…
**** it. I’ll bite. Why does Biden have Obama’s 2012 campaign logo on his teleprompter screen?
nohero said:
Pick a lane.
Smedley said:
You make it sound easy breezy, but as always the devil is in the details. What "vital needful populations" aren't supported by the government now but should be? And, where do you draw the line? What's the first group/cause that doesn't make the vital needful population cut?
Smedley said:
Sometimes I wish I lived in your world where everything was absolute and black/white. No nuance, gray area or ambiguity. Life would be simpler, that's for sure.
I don't follow.
Smedley said:
nohero said:
Pick a lane.
Smedley said:
You make it sound easy breezy, but as always the devil is in the details. What "vital needful populations" aren't supported by the government now but should be? And, where do you draw the line? What's the first group/cause that doesn't make the vital needful population cut?
Smedley said:
Sometimes I wish I lived in your world where everything was absolute and black/white. No nuance, gray area or ambiguity. Life would be simpler, that's for sure.
I don't follow.
Not a surprise.
You demand bright lines ("Where do you draw the line") but also "nuance, gray area or ambiguity", depending on what you're being contrary about.
Geez you must be really bored. Why don't you turn on the Price is Right or something.
Smedley said:
Geez you must be really bored. Why don't you turn on the Price is Right or something.
A fit of pique! Not "bored", it's just that useless information hangs around in my memory more easily than the things I should remember.
drummerboy said:
Of course, all the data shows just the opposite.
Take GDP. A decent part of our GDP is health care / drug costs, both very wasteful expenses that don't do much more than make a certain class of people very wealthy by serving as useless middlemen (for health care) and government supported rent seekers (drug makers).
Countries that have national health care don't have as significant a percentage of their GDP devoted to those two industries, so their GDP's are lower. And wisely so.
The GDP can be misleading. We have the world's highest GDP but that may not mean our economy is the strongest.
The problem with GDP is, I believe, is its a measure of the cost of goods and services. But what does that mean when you build a subway for 3 billion a mile (NYC 2nd ave) when other countries build for 300 million.
Or the cost of rail. This summer Germany allowed unlimited rail transport passes within Germany for about $10 per month. Therefore the rail ticket GDP was really very low. Unlike here where you pay and pay and then proudly proclaim "look at our robust rail GDP compared to Germany's."
Smedley said:
Yes that's right -- "all the data shows just the opposite."
Sometimes I wish I lived in your world where everything was absolute and black/white. No nuance, gray area or ambiguity. Life would be simpler, that's for sure.
Do you think the data is not what it is?
drummerboy said:
Smedley said:
Yes that's right -- "all the data shows just the opposite."
Sometimes I wish I lived in your world where everything was absolute and black/white. No nuance, gray area or ambiguity. Life would be simpler, that's for sure.
Do you think the data is not what it is?
that's the response you get when someone makes a claim that data suggests is wrong.
drummerboy said:
Smedley said:
Yes that's right -- "all the data shows just the opposite."
Sometimes I wish I lived in your world where everything was absolute and black/white. No nuance, gray area or ambiguity. Life would be simpler, that's for sure.
Do you think the data is not what it is?
Well before I even attempt to answer I have to see the data first, so please provide "all the data" that shows "just the opposite". All you've offered so far is a few sentences on health care / drug costs.
DB's "all the data" came in response to ml1's referencing of two topics: income inequality and upward mobility.
Here's some data. Knock yourselves out.
https://ourworldindata.org/income-inequality
It's not "all" the data, but should be enough to get going. Besides, I think we've all agreed "incremental" is better than "all at once" ;-)
PVW said:
DB's "all the data" came in response to ml1's referencing of two topics: income inequality and upward mobility.
Here's some data. Knock yourselves out.
https://ourworldindata.org/income-inequality
It's not "all" the data, but should be enough to get going. Besides, I think we've all agreed "incremental" is better than "all at once" ;-)
I had looked at the Gini coefficient data and some other studies of upward mobility around the world before I posted. But I didn't bother with posting the links. I always feel like someone who makes a claim like the U.S. system provides "more opportunity for all" than other countries should be able to back it up with a definition of what "more opportunity" means, and then some sort of quantifiable evidence.
but what we got was a more or less circular argument that per capita GDP is an indicator of opportunity because well, because it is.
ridski said:
This whole thread right now...
Could you explain your cartoon, Ridski? Have no idea what it means. TIA
ml1 said:
but what we got was a more or less circular argument that per capita GDP is an indicator of opportunity because well, because it is.
Maybe that claim was in the Feldstein link. Or maybe the Friedman link. Or maybe he made it up.
drummerboy said:
Maybe that claim was in the Feldstein link. Or maybe the Friedman link. Or maybe he made it up.
Hey, it's an opinion. So it can't be wrong.
Just from the perspective of street crimes reported in NYC this past year alone, the bail bond system needs fixing more than “reform”. How many times do we have to read about major crimes, including murder, in which the accused walks out of the courtroom, free to rejoin society and free to rob, or murder at whim?
mtierney said:
Just from the perspective of street crimes reported in NYC this past year alone, the bail bond system needs fixing more than “reform”. How many times do we have to read about major crimes, including murder, in which the accused walks out of the courtroom, free to rejoin society and free to rob, or murder at whim?
At whim?
This **** really worries you, huh?
There's always something to make you fearful.
Chuck Todd, is, of course, a moron, and asks a stupid gotcha question.
If a person comes to the border requesting asylum status and they are allowed to cross the border, it has nothing to do with the stupid question of "is the border secure"? The process of allowing an asylum seeker access is covered by U.S. law.
I do wish Harris was better at answering these kinds of questions though. It would be good, for example, if she could break down that 2 million number and explain who they are.