What drives the anti-anti-Trump left?
drummerboy said:
Well, I think this is the whole point of the term "useful idiots". Right?
paulsurovell said:
...
Yes, which is expected, because the author is a hard-core Russiagate Truther, which is why the rest of what he says
The fact that anti-anti-Trump leftists have interests that coincide with
Russia’s compounds the dynamic. There is zero reason to suspect any of
them have covert ties of any kind with Russia. Their arguments are
perfectly explainable in normal terms . . . if the Russians happened to find
reason to promote arguments any of us have made, we’d resent people
suggesting we were toeing the Kremlin line.is so important.
Let me be more specific. The key phrase in the passage is:
here is zero reason to suspect any of them have covert ties of any kind with Russia. Their arguments are
perfectly explainable in normal terms
which affirms that allegations that ideas "come from Russia" are canards.
Why don't the Michael Tracy critics post something he has said that they don't like so we can evaluate their criticism?
paulsurovell said:
Why don't the Michael Tracy critics post something he has said that they don't like so we can evaluate their criticism?
"Every time I say this, "both sides" freak out but it doesn't make it any less true: Liberals and leftists who fixate endlessly on an exaggerated threat of "Nazis" are the mirror image of right-wingers who fixate endlessly on the exaggerated threat of "Radical Islamic Terror"
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1130096582257512448
I'm not a fan of Maxine Walters, but there's always this:
https://www.complex.com/life/2017/06/maxine-waters-shoves-reporter-twitter-roast
cramer said:
paulsurovell said:
Why don't the Michael Tracy critics post something he has said that they don't like so we can evaluate their criticism?
"Every time I say this, "both sides" freak out but it doesn't make it any less true: Liberals and leftists who fixate endlessly on an exaggerated threat of "Nazis" are the mirror image of right-wingers who fixate endlessly on the exaggerated threat of "Radical Islamic Terror"
I won't try to defend this statement. What Tracey misses is that Nazis and radical Islamist terrorists are threats by organizations that target their victims, regardless of how much violence they carry out. And I think that Tracey is exaggerating when he says the threats are being "fixated endlessly" in "exaggerated" fashion by leftists or rightists.
Do you have anything else by Tracey to criticize?
nan said:
cramer said:
"This is not what brings us to Michael Tracey today, however. It is Tracey's ongoing efforts to downplay the threat of fascism and white nationalism in America that deserves some attention:"
https://thebanter.substack.com/p/michael-tracey-is-a-perfect-example
Of course, The Daily Banter does not like him. My impression of them is that they hate anyone left of center. In the article, they specifically attack Tracey and lots of others like Matt Taibbi, Greenwald, David Sirota (which means Bernie Sanders), etc.
They are unashamed apologists for the Muller report which Tracey has attacked from the beginning. They try to smear Tracey by bringing up his incident with Maxine Waters. Maybe embarrassing, but not even close to an in-depth critique. Gives the signal that this is probably doing to be a superficial smear piece and that is what it turns out to be.
Here they are attacking Tracey because he's not freaking out about the rise of White Nationalism. They totally distort what he has said and put words in his mouth to try to make him seem like he supports Nazis and White Nationalism.
The writer, by the way, seems totally ignorant about the rise of Nazis in Ukraine and the US involvement with that. Tracey and the other people he seems to hate and ridicule (Tabbi, Greenwald, et al) understand that situation much better and thus have come to their current viewpoints. The writer of this piece is seriously uneducated and seems basically furious that Tracey wants to take a more measured and critical approach, rather than jump on this guy's hysteria.
And then later:
cramer said:I'm not a fan of Maxine Walters, but there's always this:
https://www.complex.com/life/2017/06/maxine-waters-shoves-reporter-twitter-roast
Cramer - Did you not read the post I wrote in response to your earlier remarks (especially bolded part)? Looks like you are posting only to personally smear Michael Tracy.
nan said:
nan said:
cramer said:
"This is not what brings us to Michael Tracey today, however. It is Tracey's ongoing efforts to downplay the threat of fascism and white nationalism in America that deserves some attention:"
https://thebanter.substack.com/p/michael-tracey-is-a-perfect-example
Of course, The Daily Banter does not like him. My impression of them is that they hate anyone left of center. In the article, they specifically attack Tracey and lots of others like Matt Taibbi, Greenwald, David Sirota (which means Bernie Sanders), etc.
They are unashamed apologists for the Muller report which Tracey has attacked from the beginning. They try to smear Tracey by bringing up his incident with Maxine Waters. Maybe embarrassing, but not even close to an in-depth critique. Gives the signal that this is probably doing to be a superficial smear piece and that is what it turns out to be.
Here they are attacking Tracey because he's not freaking out about the rise of White Nationalism. They totally distort what he has said and put words in his mouth to try to make him seem like he supports Nazis and White Nationalism.
The writer, by the way, seems totally ignorant about the rise of Nazis in Ukraine and the US involvement with that. Tracey and the other people he seems to hate and ridicule (Tabbi, Greenwald, et al) understand that situation much better and thus have come to their current viewpoints. The writer of this piece is seriously uneducated and seems basically furious that Tracey wants to take a more measured and critical approach, rather than jump on this guy's hysteria.
And then later:
cramer said:I'm not a fan of Maxine Walters, but there's always this:
https://www.complex.com/life/2017/06/maxine-waters-shoves-reporter-twitter-roast
Cramer - Did you not read the post I wrote in response to your earlier remarks (especially bolded part)? Looks like you are posting only to personally smear Michael Tracy.
What was Cramer's point about the fact that Maxine Waters pushed Michael Tracey because she didn't like his questions?
paulsurovell said:
nan said:
nan said:
cramer said:
"This is not what brings us to Michael Tracey today, however. It is Tracey's ongoing efforts to downplay the threat of fascism and white nationalism in America that deserves some attention:"
https://thebanter.substack.com/p/michael-tracey-is-a-perfect-example
Of course, The Daily Banter does not like him. My impression of them is that they hate anyone left of center. In the article, they specifically attack Tracey and lots of others like Matt Taibbi, Greenwald, David Sirota (which means Bernie Sanders), etc.
They are unashamed apologists for the Muller report which Tracey has attacked from the beginning. They try to smear Tracey by bringing up his incident with Maxine Waters. Maybe embarrassing, but not even close to an in-depth critique. Gives the signal that this is probably doing to be a superficial smear piece and that is what it turns out to be.
Here they are attacking Tracey because he's not freaking out about the rise of White Nationalism. They totally distort what he has said and put words in his mouth to try to make him seem like he supports Nazis and White Nationalism.
The writer, by the way, seems totally ignorant about the rise of Nazis in Ukraine and the US involvement with that. Tracey and the other people he seems to hate and ridicule (Tabbi, Greenwald, et al) understand that situation much better and thus have come to their current viewpoints. The writer of this piece is seriously uneducated and seems basically furious that Tracey wants to take a more measured and critical approach, rather than jump on this guy's hysteria.
And then later:
cramer said:I'm not a fan of Maxine Walters, but there's always this:
https://www.complex.com/life/2017/06/maxine-waters-shoves-reporter-twitter-roast
Cramer - Did you not read the post I wrote in response to your earlier remarks (especially bolded part)? Looks like you are posting only to personally smear Michael Tracy.What was Cramer's point about the fact that Maxine Waters pushed Michael Tracey because she didn't like his questions?
Walters didn't push Tracey.
"At first, social media was ready to take his claim seriously. But the video hit Twitter soon after he called her actions "erratic" and "unprofessional," and they made things a whole lot worse for Tracey."
"Once Twitter saw that Waters simply pushed his mic out of her face, rather than "shoving" him, they let loose a barrage of parodies related to his claim, comparing the event to recurring gags you might see in a Looney Tunes cartoon."
I stand with michael tracey. nobody should have a piano dropped on their head such that they stumble out of the wreckage with keys for teeth
Absolutely wild that Maxine Waters handed Michael Tracy that bouquet of flowers that turned out to be lit dynamite
https://www.complex.com/life/2017/06/maxine-waters-shoves-reporter-twitter-roast
paulsurovell said:
nan said:
nan said:
cramer said:
"This is not what brings us to Michael Tracey today, however. It is Tracey's ongoing efforts to downplay the threat of fascism and white nationalism in America that deserves some attention:"
https://thebanter.substack.com/p/michael-tracey-is-a-perfect-example
Of course, The Daily Banter does not like him. My impression of them is that they hate anyone left of center. In the article, they specifically attack Tracey and lots of others like Matt Taibbi, Greenwald, David Sirota (which means Bernie Sanders), etc.
They are unashamed apologists for the Muller report which Tracey has attacked from the beginning. They try to smear Tracey by bringing up his incident with Maxine Waters. Maybe embarrassing, but not even close to an in-depth critique. Gives the signal that this is probably doing to be a superficial smear piece and that is what it turns out to be.
Here they are attacking Tracey because he's not freaking out about the rise of White Nationalism. They totally distort what he has said and put words in his mouth to try to make him seem like he supports Nazis and White Nationalism.
The writer, by the way, seems totally ignorant about the rise of Nazis in Ukraine and the US involvement with that. Tracey and the other people he seems to hate and ridicule (Tabbi, Greenwald, et al) understand that situation much better and thus have come to their current viewpoints. The writer of this piece is seriously uneducated and seems basically furious that Tracey wants to take a more measured and critical approach, rather than jump on this guy's hysteria.
And then later:
cramer said:I'm not a fan of Maxine Walters, but there's always this:
https://www.complex.com/life/2017/06/maxine-waters-shoves-reporter-twitter-roast
Cramer - Did you not read the post I wrote in response to your earlier remarks (especially bolded part)? Looks like you are posting only to personally smear Michael Tracy.What was Cramer's point about the fact that Maxine Waters pushed Michael Tracey because she didn't like his questions?
You honestly don't know how this turned Tracey into an object of ridicule??
drummerboy said:
You honestly don't know how this turned Tracey into an object of ridicule??
Yes, it was used to ridicule Tracey. Does not mean he was not right, but when you in an altercation with an older, well-respected female the establishment is going to be on her side and you are not going to look good. So, he lost the media war on that one, but to continue to use that incident as a smear on Tracey looks weak and disingenuous now. Time to move on and, if you don't like him, critique him on the substance of his writing.
cramer said:
paulsurovell said:
nan said:
nan said:
cramer said:
"This is not what brings us to Michael Tracey today, however. It is Tracey's ongoing efforts to downplay the threat of fascism and white nationalism in America that deserves some attention:"
https://thebanter.substack.com/p/michael-tracey-is-a-perfect-example
Of course, The Daily Banter does not like him. My impression of them is that they hate anyone left of center. In the article, they specifically attack Tracey and lots of others like Matt Taibbi, Greenwald, David Sirota (which means Bernie Sanders), etc.
They are unashamed apologists for the Muller report which Tracey has attacked from the beginning. They try to smear Tracey by bringing up his incident with Maxine Waters. Maybe embarrassing, but not even close to an in-depth critique. Gives the signal that this is probably doing to be a superficial smear piece and that is what it turns out to be.
Here they are attacking Tracey because he's not freaking out about the rise of White Nationalism. They totally distort what he has said and put words in his mouth to try to make him seem like he supports Nazis and White Nationalism.
The writer, by the way, seems totally ignorant about the rise of Nazis in Ukraine and the US involvement with that. Tracey and the other people he seems to hate and ridicule (Tabbi, Greenwald, et al) understand that situation much better and thus have come to their current viewpoints. The writer of this piece is seriously uneducated and seems basically furious that Tracey wants to take a more measured and critical approach, rather than jump on this guy's hysteria.
And then later:
cramer said:I'm not a fan of Maxine Walters, but there's always this:
https://www.complex.com/life/2017/06/maxine-waters-shoves-reporter-twitter-roast
Cramer - Did you not read the post I wrote in response to your earlier remarks (especially bolded part)? Looks like you are posting only to personally smear Michael Tracy.What was Cramer's point about the fact that Maxine Waters pushed Michael Tracey because she didn't like his questions?
Walters didn't push Tracey.
"At first, social media was ready to take his claim seriously. But the video hit Twitter soon after he called her actions "erratic" and "unprofessional," and they made things a whole lot worse for Tracey."
"Once Twitter saw that Waters simply pushed his mic out of her face, rather than "shoving" him, they let loose a barrage of parodies related to his claim, comparing the event to recurring gags you might see in a Looney Tunes cartoon."
I stand with michael tracey. nobody should have a piano dropped on their head such that they stumble out of the wreckage with keys for teeth
Absolutely wild that Maxine Waters handed Michael Tracy that bouquet of flowers that turned out to be lit dynamite
https://www.complex.com/life/2017/06/maxine-waters-shoves-reporter-twitter-roast
Michael was accurate in his description:
"Rep. Maxine Waters just shoved me and angrily stormed off as I asked her
questions. (Not a violent shove but she initiated physical contact)"
Watch the video (at 1:22)
Here's the full @MaxineWaters @mtracey interview. Sensitive viewers, you are warned. pic.twitter.com/gyU2pw6FdD
— Tommy X-TrumpIsARacist-opher (@tommyxtopher) June 3, 2017
OMG. You're defending him? Are you kidding?
Swear to god - every post from you guys just diminishes my respect for you.
drummerboy said:
paulsurovell said:
nan said:
nan said:
cramer said:
"This is not what brings us to Michael Tracey today, however. It is Tracey's ongoing efforts to downplay the threat of fascism and white nationalism in America that deserves some attention:"
https://thebanter.substack.com/p/michael-tracey-is-a-perfect-example
Of course, The Daily Banter does not like him. My impression of them is that they hate anyone left of center. In the article, they specifically attack Tracey and lots of others like Matt Taibbi, Greenwald, David Sirota (which means Bernie Sanders), etc.
They are unashamed apologists for the Muller report which Tracey has attacked from the beginning. They try to smear Tracey by bringing up his incident with Maxine Waters. Maybe embarrassing, but not even close to an in-depth critique. Gives the signal that this is probably doing to be a superficial smear piece and that is what it turns out to be.
Here they are attacking Tracey because he's not freaking out about the rise of White Nationalism. They totally distort what he has said and put words in his mouth to try to make him seem like he supports Nazis and White Nationalism.
The writer, by the way, seems totally ignorant about the rise of Nazis in Ukraine and the US involvement with that. Tracey and the other people he seems to hate and ridicule (Tabbi, Greenwald, et al) understand that situation much better and thus have come to their current viewpoints. The writer of this piece is seriously uneducated and seems basically furious that Tracey wants to take a more measured and critical approach, rather than jump on this guy's hysteria.
And then later:
cramer said:I'm not a fan of Maxine Walters, but there's always this:
https://www.complex.com/life/2017/06/maxine-waters-shoves-reporter-twitter-roast
Cramer - Did you not read the post I wrote in response to your earlier remarks (especially bolded part)? Looks like you are posting only to personally smear Michael Tracy.What was Cramer's point about the fact that Maxine Waters pushed Michael Tracey because she didn't like his questions?
You honestly don't know how this turned Tracey into an object of ridicule??
I think Maxine looked pretty ridiculous.
drummerboy said:
OMG. You're defending him? Are you kidding?
Swear to god - every post from you guys just diminishes my respect for you.
You've just got a problem with facts.
I watched the video. Rep. Waters answered his question and was pretty thorough in expressing her point of view. When Tracey changed the subject to Obama she ended the conversation by pushing the microphone away as she walked away.
It was hardly an "altercation". Such things happen between politicians and reporters all the time.
Now as for exaggerating the threat from Nazis, given the Holocaust, as a Jew I am not convinced that threats from Nazis can be exaggerated.
paulsurovell said:
I think Maxine looked pretty ridiculous.
I absolutely disagree.
And she did not shove him or make contact with anything other than a microphone sticking in her face.
siding with Tracey in the Waters incident is a perfect example of cult behavior. It's not even close as to what happened there, and that Tracey's histrionics about it were absurd.
When they show you who they are, believe them. Tracey is a buffoon.
STANV said:
paulsurovell said:
I think Maxine looked pretty ridiculous.
I absolutely disagree.
And she did not shove him or make contact with anything other than a microphone sticking in her face.
Here's a reasonable description of what happened:
Maxine used her forearm to push (shove) Michael's forearm. Starting at 1:51.
I copied the frames at 1:52 below.
drummerboy said:
siding with Tracey in the Waters incident is a perfect example of cult behavior. It's not even close as to what happened there, and that Tracey's histrionics about it were absurd.
When they show you who they are, believe them. Tracey is a buffoon.
Your siding with Waters here is a replay of your siding with Waters on her inane statement that Putin told Trump to say "Crooked Hillary" and "Lock her up".
You're siding with Waters because she's a promoter of Russiagate and because Tracey is a dissenter who challenged her on Russiagate.
The histrionics are all coming from Waters. Just look at the video.
paulsurovell said:
drummerboy said:
siding with Tracey in the Waters incident is a perfect example of cult behavior. It's not even close as to what happened there, and that Tracey's histrionics about it were absurd.
When they show you who they are, believe them. Tracey is a buffoon.
Your siding with Waters here is a replay of your siding with Waters on her inane statement that Putin told Trump to say "Crooked Hillary" and "Lock her up".
You're siding with Waters because she's a promoter of Russiagate and because Tracey is a dissenter who challenged her on Russiagate.
The histrionics are all coming from Waters. Just look at the video.
hahahahahaha (and I'm pretty sure I never "sided" with Waters about much of anything regarding Russia. bashing you every time you mention her is not siding with her.)
anyway, Tracey's histrionics occurred after the video
paulsurovell said:
Here's a reasonable description of what happened:
Maxine used her forearm to push (shove) Michael's forearm. Starting at 1:51.
I copied the frames at 1:52 below.
Please tell me you're kidding with you're outrage over this? Will this shove be the feature story on the next "Be About Peace" newsletter? You used to focus on bigger things. I guess Maxine is the new Hillary. bizarre.
jamie said:
paulsurovell said:
Here's a reasonable description of what happened:
Maxine used her forearm to push (shove) Michael's forearm. Starting at 1:51.
I copied the frames at 1:52 below.Please tell me you're kidding with you're outrage over this? Will this shove be the feature story on the next "Be About Peace" newsletter? You used to focus on bigger things. I guess Maxine is the new Hillary. bizarre.
You mistake my rebuttal of an allegation with "outrage".
I'm not outraged or angry. And neither was Michael.
The outrage seems to come from people who didn't like the legitimate questions Michael was asking and wanted to "get him" by misrepresenting what he said and what happened.
drummerboy said:
paulsurovell said:
drummerboy said:
siding with Tracey in the Waters incident is a perfect example of cult behavior. It's not even close as to what happened there, and that Tracey's histrionics about it were absurd.
When they show you who they are, believe them. Tracey is a buffoon.
Your siding with Waters here is a replay of your siding with Waters on her inane statement that Putin told Trump to say "Crooked Hillary" and "Lock her up".
You're siding with Waters because she's a promoter of Russiagate and because Tracey is a dissenter who challenged her on Russiagate.
The histrionics are all coming from Waters. Just look at the video.
hahahahahaha (and I'm pretty sure I never "sided" with Waters about much of anything regarding Russia. bashing you every time you mention her is not siding with her.)
anyway, Tracey's histrionics occurred after the video
"bashing you every time you mention her . . ." Odd.
paulsurovell said:
"bashing you every time you mention her . . ." Odd.
what's odd about that? haven't you noticed that's what I do?
As I said, Micheal did nothing wrong, but the mainstream media was all over this and now it continues to be used to smear him. Let's hope that MOL posters can be better than that.
He did nothing wrong other than be an a$$hole about the whole thing.
paulsurovell said:
Here's a reasonable description of what happened:
Maxine used her forearm to push (shove) Michael's forearm. Starting at 1:51.
I copied the frames at 1:52 below.
Who was she shoving with her left hand?
Her hands were up as she argued and as she moved forward her right arm pushed the microphone away. Her arm may have com in contact with his hand.
Perhaps she should have said "excuse me, I am finished talking to you, please let me pass" and either waited for him to back away (I sort of doubt that he would have easily complied) or turned around the other way and walked away. But hindsight is 20-20 and the reporter certainly over reacted.
What I see is a 78 year old Black woman being baited about Obama by a young White man. Additionally his question was an example of "whataboutism".
ridski said:
Who was she shoving with her left hand?
No one from what I saw.
Sponsored Business
Promote your business here - Businesses get highlighted throughout the site and you can add a deal.
Again, accusations without examples.