Uptick in break ins, etc. Hilton neighborhood

EricBurbank said:
I have also been a target of police harassment when I was a teen.  I had a muscle car that the local police did not like for some reason (ok, maybe I may have done some crazy things with the car   ).  To be continued later.

 I appreciate your comments but I hope you can understand that the way you describe things (you did crazy things with your muscle car that the local police didn't like) kind of puts a damper on a credible claim of police harassment. 

If you were frequently pulled over for driving a muscle car according to local ordinances I could see that as harassment. Even if they nailed you for things they didn't usually pull people over for (rolling stop, 5 mph over limit etc) I'm not sure that qualifies as harassment.

Some towns have a no knock registry. Its homeowners who do not want any peddlers or solicitors to knock on their door any time. A central registry is kept with a no knock sticker given to the homeowner to put on their door.

 310-6
No-Knock Registry.

A. The Township Clerk shall prepare a list of addresses of those premises
where the owner and/or occupant has notified the Clerk that canvassing,
peddling, itinerant vending, and door-to-door sales enterprises are
not permitted on the premises (hereinafter referred to as the Jackson
Township "No-Knock" Registry"). Notification shall be completion of
a form available at the Township Clerk's office during normal
business hours. The list shall be updated monthly.

B. Any owner and/or occupant who has requested enlistment on the Jackson Township No-Knock Registry pursuant to Subsection A herein shall be able to procure from the Clerk's office a sticker for display at his/her/its premises indicating enlistment on the Jackson Township No-Knock Registry. The first sticker shall be provided free of charge and may be picked up in person during regular business hours. If a replacement sticker is required, the individual may pick up a replacement at the Clerk's office at no charge. All previously issued stickers that reference Jackson Township Ordinance No. 41-08 shall remain in full force and effect.[Amended 10-25-2016 by Ord. No. 25-16]

No-Knock Registry to a licensee at the time of issuance of a license
to peddle, canvass, itinerant vend or otherwise door-to-door sell,
pursuant to the provisions of this chapter. The licensee shall not
peddle, canvass, itinerant vend or conduct door-to-door sales at any
premises identified on the then-current Jackson Township No-Knock
Registry.

D. Although the most current list of registrants on the Jackson Township
"No Knock" Registry shall be provided by the Township Clerk, it is
the responsibility of the canvasser, itinerant vendor, or solicitor
to have the most up-to-date list prior to performing their business.

E. Any canvasser, peddler, itinerant vendor, or owner or employee of
a door-to-door sales enterprise who violates any provision of this
section, if convicted, shall be:

(1) Subject to a maximum ordinance violation fine of $1,250 for the first
offense;

(2) Subject to 90 days in the county jail or in any place provided by
the municipality for the detention of prisoners, for any term not
exceeding 90 days for any offense thereafter; and

(3) Subject to a permanent revocation of any license issued under the
within chapter.

conandrob240 said:
I make sure the solicitor know I’m home but I don’t open the door. I come to the window part of the front door, ask what they want and tell them I’m not interested. I do that just in case it’s someone canvassing to see if anyone’s home. I don’t answer the door for anyone I don’t know. I don’t care if it’s kids selling candy or adults selling solar or siding. 

 Yes, it's good to let them know someone is home.  I politely (through the door) say that I don't respond to solicitors but they may certainly leave literature in my mail box.  Oddly they rarely have brochures to leave.

First things first, I want to thank everyone participating in this discussion for not jumping down my throat or calling me a racist for supporting the police.  Last time this type of discussion came up I was called a racist and many other things.

I was joking when I said I did crazy things with the car.  I would do stuff like revving up the engine while sitting at a light, the exhaust was legal but loud and it would make the car shake.  The other thing I did was cruise the main drag which was legal at that time.  They have since made a "no cruising" law.  

I didn't have time earlier to finish my post so I wasn't able to tell the real reason we(me and my brothers) were harassed.

My mothers house was the house that all the teens hung out at.  My mother was "cool" when it came to letting all of our friends in the house all the time.  Her philosophy was - if we were all at the house she knew we were safe and we weren't getting in to trouble.  But the police didn't see it that way, they figured there had to be a reason so many kids were coming and going all the time.  What was the reason?  You guessed it, they thought it was a drug house.  We didn't learn that until we were grown and out of the house.  With the police believing this, we were pulled over every time a cop saw us out.  

I was pissed off when I first heard of it.  Since then I look back at it and I realize it wasn't necessarily a bad thing, the police were just doing their job.  They used knowledge and experience to come to that conclusion.  They saw a lot of traffic from teenagers going to a house all the time, and there were so many of them.  Quite often this type of activity is related to a drug house.

BG9 said:
Some towns have a no knock registry. Its homeowners who do not want any peddlers or solicitors to knock on their door any time. A central registry is kept with a no knock sticker given to the homeowner to put on their door.

 310-6
No-Knock Registry.
A. The Township Clerk shall prepare a list of addresses of those premises
where the owner and/or occupant has notified the Clerk that canvassing,
peddling, itinerant vending, and door-to-door sales enterprises are
not permitted on the premises (hereinafter referred to as the Jackson
Township "No-Knock" Registry"). Notification shall be completion of
a form available at the Township Clerk's office during normal
business hours. The list shall be updated monthly.
B. Any owner and/or occupant who has requested enlistment on the Jackson Township No-Knock Registry pursuant to Subsection A herein shall be able to procure from the Clerk's office a sticker for display at his/her/its premises indicating enlistment on the Jackson Township No-Knock Registry. The first sticker shall be provided free of charge and may be picked up in person during regular business hours. If a replacement sticker is required, the individual may pick up a replacement at the Clerk's office at no charge. All previously issued stickers that reference Jackson Township Ordinance No. 41-08 shall remain in full force and effect.[Amended 10-25-2016 by Ord. No. 25-16]

C. The Township Clerk shall distribute the current Jackson Township
No-Knock Registry to a licensee at the time of issuance of a license
to peddle, canvass, itinerant vend or otherwise door-to-door sell,
pursuant to the provisions of this chapter. The licensee shall not
peddle, canvass, itinerant vend or conduct door-to-door sales at any
premises identified on the then-current Jackson Township No-Knock
Registry.
D. Although the most current list of registrants on the Jackson Township
"No Knock" Registry shall be provided by the Township Clerk, it is
the responsibility of the canvasser, itinerant vendor, or solicitor
to have the most up-to-date list prior to performing their business.
E. Any canvasser, peddler, itinerant vendor, or owner or employee of
a door-to-door sales enterprise who violates any provision of this
section, if convicted, shall be:
(1) Subject to a maximum ordinance violation fine of $1,250 for the first
offense;
(2) Subject to 90 days in the county jail or in any place provided by
the municipality for the detention of prisoners, for any term not
exceeding 90 days for any offense thereafter; and
(3) Subject to a permanent revocation of any license issued under the
within chapter.

 Do you know how well this worked?  Did it keep unwanted solicitors from knocking on the door or was it as widely ignored as the no call registry is today?  While such an ordinance might resolve the OP's problem, I don't see how this approach could be enforced without frequent calls to the police, which an increasing number of our residents would oppose as potentially racist.  Documentation of the violation would be difficult unless the homeowner had a camera installed over the front door which had a clear view of the doorbell.  We already have a permit only requirement in town which is not that enforceable without calling the police when an infraction occurs.

I am interested to know how well the "no-knock" list worked. Certainly the legitimate businesses with permits and fundraisers would try to comply because the wouldn't want to risk the penalties. Like how legit telemarketing businesses tend to adhere to the "do not call" list.

EricBurbank said:
First things first, I want to thank everyone participating in this discussion for not jumping down my throat or calling me a racist for supporting the police.  Last time this type of discussion came up I was called a racist and many other things.


I was joking when I said I did crazy things with the car.  I would do stuff like revving up the engine while sitting at a light, the exhaust was legal but loud and it would make the car shake.  The other thing I did was cruise the main drag which was legal at that time.  They have since made a "no cruising" law.  


I didn't have time earlier to finish my post so I wasn't able to tell the real reason we(me and my brothers) were harassed.


My mothers house was the house that all the teens hung out at.  My mother was "cool" when it came to letting all of our friends in the house all the time.  Her philosophy was - if we were all at the house she knew we were safe and we weren't getting in to trouble.  But the police didn't see it that way, they figured there had to be a reason so many kids were coming and going all the time.  What was the reason?  You guessed it, they thought it was a drug house.  We didn't learn that until we were grown and out of the house.  With the police believing this, we were pulled over every time a cop saw us out.  


I was pissed off when I first heard of it.  Since then I look back at it and I realize it wasn't necessarily a bad thing, the police were just doing their job.  They used knowledge and experience to come to that conclusion.  They saw a lot of traffic from teenagers going to a house all the time, and there were so many of them.  Quite often this type of activity is related to a drug house.

 At least you know the reason for police suspicion was a behavior that was observable by others and not just that your skin was black. That is the issue at hand. White privilege means you never have to worry that your skin color is the reason something happened to you. 

I'm not gonna call you racist, but you were raised in a system that was designed and developed over the last 350 or so years to favor and privilege white people. A system that is inherently racist. So while you may believe you aren't a racist, it is impossible to detach yourself from being reared in and benefiting from that racist system. 

This conversation has veered off track, but hey, what is the internet for if not for getting conversations off track.

EricBurbank said:
Since then I look back at it and I realize it wasn't necessarily a bad thing, the police were just doing their job.  They used knowledge and experience to come to that conclusion.  They saw a lot of traffic from teenagers going to a house all the time, and there were so many of them.  Quite often this type of activity is related to a drug house.

 Actually they weren't doing their job well if they ended up constantly pulling over and questioning innocent people.  All they needed to do was run the license plates of the cars coming to the house, discover the visitors were local kids, and back off.   This is why a lot of people don't care for cops.  When they hassle law-abiding people instead of doing their jobs the right way.

ml1 said:

EricBurbank said:
Since then I look back at it and I realize it wasn't necessarily a bad thing, the police were just doing their job.  They used knowledge and experience to come to that conclusion.  They saw a lot of traffic from teenagers going to a house all the time, and there were so many of them.  Quite often this type of activity is related to a drug house.

 Actually they weren't doing their job well if they ended up constantly pulling over and questioning innocent people.  All they needed to do was run the license plates of the cars coming to the house, discover the visitors were local kids, and back off.   This is why a lot of people don't care for cops.  When they hassle law-abiding people instead of doing their jobs the right way.

 Police profiling... just like some posters on this message board profile people...

als4532 said:
 At least you know the reason for police suspicion was a behavior that was observable by others and not just that your skin was black. That is the issue at hand. White privilege means you never have to worry that your skin color is the reason something happened to you. 
I'm not gonna call you racist, but you were raised in a system that was designed and developed over the last 350 or so years to favor and privilege white people. A system that is inherently racist. So while you may believe you aren't a racist, it is impossible to detach yourself from being reared in and benefiting from that racist system. 
This conversation has veered off track, but hey, what is the internet for if not for getting conversations off track.

 I don't think it's off track at all.  Given that a common response to your original question is -- call the cops any time you think something looks "suspicious", I think it's necessary to discuss exactly what constitutes "suspicious" behavior.  And how is that affected by our perceptions of race, gender, age, etc.