Twitter is a Private Company

paulsurovell said:

PVW said:

Being a raging, narcissistic a-hole seems an occupational hazard of being a billionaire. Who's going to give Musk a reality check? When you're rich and powerful, people around you want to be in your good graces and maybe get some of that wealth and power for themselves. It would take an extraordinary individual to resist the natural tendency to become surrounded by a circle of flatterers and yes-persons, and Musk is clearly not extraordinary in this regard.

I wrote a while back that anyone who hates Musk really doesn't care about climate change, because Musk has done more -- far more -- than any other individual on the planet to fight climate change.

And he's prepared to do much more:

you must have missed (or more likely ignored) my post about how much carbon emissions Musk enables through his sale of billions of dollars worth of carbon credits.


paulsurovell said:

I wrote a while back that anyone who hates Musk really doesn't care about climate change, because Musk has done more -- far more -- than any other individual on the planet to fight climate change.

And he's prepared to do much more:

You did. And I added it to my mental file of "more weird example of Paul praising far-right billionaires."

My view of Musk tracks pretty closely with that expressed by DanDietrich earlier. I have no issue with granting him credit with helping mainstream electric vehicles (though I do have serious issues with his reckless approach to self-driving vehicles). Pointing out that he's a narcissistic a-hole who's only getting worse over time doesn't contradict this -- it'd be nice if there were a tidy correlation between people acting like decent human beings and material success in life, but there's not. Plenty of people who act terrible are rich and powerful.

The point I was making was that when you're rich and powerful, the kinds of social safeguards that help you avoid becoming a rich jerk tend to stop working, and that Musk is a clear example of this. I think it's progressed to the point that it's actually starting to have a material impact on his ability to run a business (something that doesn't always happen to rich jerks). Twitter was never worth $44bn, and Musk's actions so far almost seem purposely designed to further drive down its value, but he appears to be so far into his own little world he can't even notice this.


Would it be fair to say that anyone who praises Musk doesn't care about labor?


sprout said:

paulsurovell said:

I wrote a while back that anyone who hates Musk really doesn't care about climate change, because Musk has done more -- far more -- than any other individual on the planet to fight climate change.


I know, right? He's even flying on a carbon-emissions-free private jet he invented.  Oh, wait.

https://inhabitat.com/teen-tracks-elon-musk-jet-brings-attention-to-pollution/

As of Feb. 7, Sweeney’s jet-tracking Twitter accounts are still up and running. A tweet on Feb. 5 highlighted that one of Musk’s recent flights used 424 gallons of jet fuel and emitted 4.48 tons of CO2.

This is the same bogus attack line used by climate change deniers to attack John Kerry, Barack Obama and Al Gore. The point is that electric or hydrogen aircraft are still in their early stages, And people like Kerry, Gore, Obama and Musk need to fly all over the place to carry out or promote policy that's really going to impact climate change.

https://newrepublic.com/article/144199/al-gores-carbon-footprint-doesnt-matter

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/republicans-hammer-kerry-massive-emissions-family-private-jet


paulsurovell said:

sprout said:

paulsurovell said:

I wrote a while back that anyone who hates Musk really doesn't care about climate change, because Musk has done more -- far more -- than any other individual on the planet to fight climate change.


I know, right? He's even flying on a carbon-emissions-free private jet he invented.  Oh, wait.

https://inhabitat.com/teen-tracks-elon-musk-jet-brings-attention-to-pollution/

As of Feb. 7, Sweeney’s jet-tracking Twitter accounts are still up and running. A tweet on Feb. 5 highlighted that one of Musk’s recent flights used 424 gallons of jet fuel and emitted 4.48 tons of CO2.

This is the same bogus attack line used by climate change deniers to attack John Kerry, Barack Obama and Al Gore. The point is that electric or hydrogen aircraft are still in their early stages, And people like Kerry, Gore, Obama and Musk need to fly all over the place to carry out or promote policy that's really going to impact climate change.

https://newrepublic.com/article/144199/al-gores-carbon-footprint-doesnt-matter

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/republicans-hammer-kerry-massive-emissions-family-private-jet

paul is unfortunately correct here. attacking people for their personal carbon consumption is pretty dumb. it goes along with the mind set that personal decisions about consumption habits are key to solving global warming, (e.g. recycling or riding bicycles) when what's important are corporate, institutional and governmental behaviors.

it's arguable that the focus on personal behavior (an idea pushed by the fossil fuel industry to take the pressure of of them) has been instrumental in slowing down our response to GW.


The guy actually believes repopulating the earth with little Elons is helping the world more than fighting global warming helps the world. He's developed a G_d complex. But, anyone is free to keep adoring him without qualification.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1563020753876193281


PVW said:

Would it be fair to say that anyone who praises Musk doesn't care about labor?

Not if they support unions across the board, for all companies, including Tesla, Space X, Starlink, etc (which I do).

But "support for labor" isn't why Musk is being canceled (demonized with no redeeming qualities). 


sprout said:

The guy actually believes repopulating the earth with little Elons is helping the world more than fighting global warming helps the world. He's developed a G_d complex. But, anyone is free to keep adoring him without qualification.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1563020753876193281

Your link didn't work, but I found the tweet. And the follow-up. Where's the "G_d complex"?


drummerboy said:

paulsurovell said:

sprout said:

paulsurovell said:

I wrote a while back that anyone who hates Musk really doesn't care about climate change, because Musk has done more -- far more -- than any other individual on the planet to fight climate change.


I know, right? He's even flying on a carbon-emissions-free private jet he invented.  Oh, wait.

https://inhabitat.com/teen-tracks-elon-musk-jet-brings-attention-to-pollution/

As of Feb. 7, Sweeney’s jet-tracking Twitter accounts are still up and running. A tweet on Feb. 5 highlighted that one of Musk’s recent flights used 424 gallons of jet fuel and emitted 4.48 tons of CO2.

This is the same bogus attack line used by climate change deniers to attack John Kerry, Barack Obama and Al Gore. The point is that electric or hydrogen aircraft are still in their early stages, And people like Kerry, Gore, Obama and Musk need to fly all over the place to carry out or promote policy that's really going to impact climate change.

https://newrepublic.com/article/144199/al-gores-carbon-footprint-doesnt-matter

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/republicans-hammer-kerry-massive-emissions-family-private-jet

paul is unfortunately correct here. attacking people for their personal carbon consumption is pretty dumb. it goes along with the mind set that personal decisions about consumption habits are key to solving global warming, (e.g. recycling or riding bicycles) when what's important are corporate, institutional and governmental behaviors.

it's arguable that the focus on personal behavior (an idea pushed by the fossil fuel industry to take the pressure of of them) has been instrumental in slowing down our response to GW.

Unfortunately correct?


paulsurovell said:

sprout said:

The guy actually believes repopulating the earth with little Elons is helping the world more than fighting global warming helps the world. He's developed a G_d complex. But, anyone is free to keep adoring him without qualification.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1563020753876193281

Your link didn't work, but I found the tweet. And the follow-up. Where's the "G_d complex"?

Are you familiar with Musk's ideas about repopulating the earth with smart people like himself.


Ok, so unfortunately, the most highly polluting form of transportation is a necessity of sorts. Although Elon didn't have to name one of his kids after his favorite airplane, but he did.

Which leads to the kids/populating the earth with little Elons. Musk mentioned that his 'friends thought he should have 500 kids,' which seemed like a very Trumpian way of testing the reaction to this, or like he's inviting other women to seek him out for more secret babies (2 of which are now known (bringing him to 10 kids?), and were born a couple months before his previously known 2nd Grimes baby). 

He then followed up the 500 kids statement with more socially acceptable responses (...but that does seem weird; ...I just want to have as many kids as I can be a good Dad to, etc). 

Maybe he's not trying to be a modern day Genghis Khan, but I still wouldn't want my daughter anywhere near him.


sprout said:

Maybe he's not trying to be a modern day Genghis Khan, but I still wouldn't want my daughter anywhere near him.

He's an incredibly wealthy man who has his own spaceships and who wants to "repopulate" the world with superior beings such as himself.  He doesn't want to be "a modern day Genghis Khan, I think he's aspiring to be a Bond villain.


paulsurovell said:

Your link didn't work, but I found the tweet. And the follow-up. Where's the "G_d complex"?

I don't know if that shows a "G_d complex", but there's a strong whiff of eugenics. And his argument that there will be a "risk to civilization" if population doesn't increase (a great risk than climate change, he says) sounds more like a complaint about the risk to "Western" civilization if "European" peoples don't increase their population.


paulsurovell said:

I wrote a while back that anyone who hates Musk really doesn't care about climate change, because Musk has done more -- far more -- than any other individual on the planet to fight climate change.

And he's prepared to do much more:

No, the President of France isn't endorsing the argument that "Musk has done more than any other individual on the planet to fight climate change". 

paulsurovell said:

How many charging stations have been built under Biden's plan?

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/11/business/tesla-opening-charger-network/index.html

That's a stupid argument. If you want to know what the plan and timetable is for expanding public availability to charging stations, read something.  Here's one suggestion - Biden Administration Allocates $900 Million for Electric Vehicle Chargers | Smart News| Smithsonian Magazine

As for the article you linked, you should read that, too. As described in that article, Tesla is agreeing to let other charging stations use its design for a charging cord, so that Tesla owners will be better able to access all the existing charging stations and all the new ones that will be built.

In other words, to get ready to use all the charging stations to be "built under Biden's plan".


paulsurovell said:


But "support for labor" isn't why Musk is being canceled (demonized with no redeeming qualities). 

I've seldom found it worth my while to worry to much about what the amorphous "they" are doing. On the contrary, I find discussion that prioritizes specificity to be more interesting and informative than that which falls back on amorphous generalizations.

I have no idea who is supposedly doing the canceling here, or what "canceling" is even supposed to mean. I can say that for me, I'm very much paying attention to how billionaire Musk is attempting to break worker power and how other business owners are hoping to emulate him.


nohero said:

paulsurovell said:

Your link didn't work, but I found the tweet. And the follow-up. Where's the "G_d complex"?

I don't know if that shows a "G_d complex", but there's a strong whiff of eugenics. And his argument that there will be a "risk to civilization" if population doesn't increase (a great risk than climate change, he says) sounds more like a complaint about the risk to "Western" civilization if "European" peoples don't increase their population.

given that the earth's population continues to increase, and all projections are for it to continue to increase, I think the only logical inference from what Musk is saying is that he thinks the risk is falling birth rates among the "right" kind of people.


Musk's crusade against workers is broader than Twitter, of course. In countries where workers have more power and are less willing to put up with Muskian nonsense, we get stories like this:

Tesla’s Berlin Hub Can’t Hire Enough People, or Keep Them
(Wired)

mtierney said:

More on the Twitter story. …

https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/twitter-files-paint-an-ugly-portrait/

Nothing like getting all worked up over a dishonest description of what happened.


This idea that Elon Musk is single-handedly making a difference for climate change is kind of silly.  It is more the case that growing awareness at a grass roots level is driving corporations and governments to respond.


whoopsie

https://www.reuters.com/technology/musks-neuralink-faces-federal-probe-employee-backlash-over-animal-tests-2022-12-05/

Dec 5 (Reuters) - Elon Musk’s Neuralink, a medical device
company, is under federal investigation for potential animal-welfare
violations amid internal staff complaints that its animal testing is
being rushed, causing needless suffering and deaths, according to
documents reviewed by Reuters and sources familiar with the
investigation and company operations.


Sounds like paul really wants to see Hunter's junk.


jamie said:

Sounds like paul really wants to see Hunter's junk.

Is there an adolescent writing your posts?


PVW said:

Musk's crusade against workers is broader than Twitter, of course. In countries where workers have more power and are less willing to put up with Muskian nonsense, we get stories like this:

Tesla’s Berlin Hub Can’t Hire Enough People, or Keep Them
(Wired)

Funny, Macron doesn't seem worried. And the Italians want Musk to invest there too https://cleantechnica.com/2022/12/03/italian-minister-opens-doors-wide-for-tesla-musk/


nohero said:

paulsurovell said:

I wrote a while back that anyone who hates Musk really doesn't care about climate change, because Musk has done more -- far more -- than any other individual on the planet to fight climate change.

And he's prepared to do much more:

No, the President of France isn't endorsing the argument that "Musk has done more than any other individual on the planet to fight climate change". 

paulsurovell said:

How many charging stations have been built under Biden's plan?

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/11/business/tesla-opening-charger-network/index.html

That's a stupid argument. If you want to know what the plan and timetable is for expanding public availability to charging stations, read something.  Here's one suggestion - Biden Administration Allocates $900 Million for Electric Vehicle Chargers | Smart News| Smithsonian Magazine

As for the article you linked, you should read that, too. As described in that article, Tesla is agreeing to let other charging stations use its design for a charging cord, so that Tesla owners will be better able to access all the existing charging stations and all the new ones that will be built.

In other words, to get ready to use all the charging stations to be "built under Biden's plan".

Corporate media pushes Musk Bad, @nohero pushes Musk Bad. Nothing good, not even a nuance. Just Musk Bad, Tesla Bad.

And for the record, you made up that reference to Macron.


ml1 said:

nohero said:

paulsurovell said:

Your link didn't work, but I found the tweet. And the follow-up. Where's the "G_d complex"?

I don't know if that shows a "G_d complex", but there's a strong whiff of eugenics. And his argument that there will be a "risk to civilization" if population doesn't increase (a great risk than climate change, he says) sounds more like a complaint about the risk to "Western" civilization if "European" peoples don't increase their population.

given that the earth's population continues to increase, and all projections are for it to continue to increase, I think the only logical inference from what Musk is saying is that he thinks the risk is falling birth rates among the "right" kind of people.

What language in his tweets gives you that impression?


PVW said:

Musk's crusade against workers is broader than Twitter, of course. In countries where workers have more power and are less willing to put up with Muskian nonsense, we get stories like this:

Tesla’s Berlin Hub Can’t Hire Enough People, or Keep Them
(Wired)

Here are some more employers that you should beat up on (unfortunately Tesla isn't on either list)

https://moneyinc.com/worst-companies-to-work-for-in-2022/

https://nationalcosh.org/sites/default/files/uploads/2022_Dirty_Dozen.pdf


drummerboy said:

whoopsie

https://www.reuters.com/technology/musks-neuralink-faces-federal-probe-employee-backlash-over-animal-tests-2022-12-05/

Dec 5 (Reuters) - Elon Musk’s Neuralink, a medical device
company, is under federal investigation for potential animal-welfare
violations amid internal staff complaints that its animal testing is
being rushed, causing needless suffering and deaths, according to
documents reviewed by Reuters and sources familiar with the
investigation and company operations.

Do you eat meat produced in factory farms?

https://animalequality.org/news/why-factory-farming-is-the-largest-cause-of-animal-abuse-in-history/


nohero said:

Elon kept the Muskovites waiting all day yesterday for "Episode 2", but last night told them that it's still "Coming Soon". After seeing the critical reaction to Episode 1 ("The Phantom Menace"), they probably realized they needed to do a little more work on it than just declaring it a "bombshell".

The delay had nothing to do with the "critical reaction"


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