Thoughts on the political career of John McCain
I would argue that the Korean war was justifiable. MacArthur blew it by threatening the Chinese, but North Korea was clearly the aggressor in invading the South.
A very personal, critical but balanced eulogy of John McCain by Scott Ritter describes his discussions with McCain around Ritter's testimony before the joint session of the Senate Foreign Relations and Armed Services Committee after Ritter resigned as a UN weapons inspector in Iraq.
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/beware-the-hero-worship-of-john-mccain/
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
wedjet said:I've always been partial to our invasion of Granada. We stopped it from going Commie.
.This country has not won a war since WWII. Which of those were necessary?
Same motivation in Vietnam. The only justifiable use of US military force since WW2 was Clinton's dispatch of the Marines to restore elected President Aristede in Haiti, IMO.
Also, as far as McCain being cut from the same cloth re. being President of all the people, I think Romney put the lie to that with his '47%' comment. He was clearly going to be the President of the "makers".
paulsurovell said:
Formerlyjerseyjack said:Same motivation in Vietnam. The only justifiable use of US military force since WW2 was Clinton's dispatch of the Marines to restore elected President Aristede in Haiti, IMO.
wedjet said:I've always been partial to our invasion of Granada. We stopped it from going Commie.
.This country has not won a war since WWII. Which of those were necessary?
I took jersey jack's post to be a bit of humour.
Clinton regretted not intervening in Rwanda to stop genocide.
Was the intervention in Bosnia justified?
What should the reaction have been to Saddam invading Kuwait?
Afghanistan is a mess but what should the US have done after 9/11 when the Taliban were harboring Bin Laden?
LOST said:
What should the reaction have been to Saddam invading Kuwait?
The Gulf War was based on another completely trumped-up premise. There was a border dispute between Iraq and Kuwait that could have been solved diplomatically. But the U.S. wanted to disarm Iraq after we had spent a decade arming them to fight Iran. In fact, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie essentially told Saddam the U.S. would not get involved in the border dispute with Kuwait. But when Iraq did invade Kuwait, we went to war after giving Saddam an ultimatum on withdrawal that was impossible for him to meet.
Here were Glaspie's words to Saddam the summer before the war:
We have no opinion on your Arab – Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960’s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America. (Saddam smiles)
ml1 said:
LOST said:The Gulf War was based on another completely trumped-up premise. There was a border dispute between Iraq and Kuwait that could have been solved diplomatically. But the U.S. wanted to disarm Iraq after we had spent a decade arming them to fight Iran. In fact, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie essentially told Saddam the U.S. would not get involved in the border dispute with Kuwait. But when Iraq did invade Kuwait, we went to war after giving Saddam an ultimatum on withdrawal that was impossible for him to meet.
What should the reaction have been to Saddam invading Kuwait?
Here were Glaspie's words to Saddam the summer before the war:
We have no opinion on your Arab – Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960’s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America. (Saddam smiles)
https://www.globalresearch.ca/gulf-war-documents-meeting-between-saddam-hussein-and-ambassador-to-iraq-april-glaspie/31145
The establishment media hoax that Iraqi soldiers killed babies in incubators provided the necessary public outrage. Those who accept at face value stories of Syrian use of chemical weapons from Al-Qaeda-controlled areas, should revisit this fabrication:
Revisit that fabrication. Did they revisit the fabrication that German solders bayoneted babies in WW1?
So Paul please explain:
1. Why US military action to protect Aristede in Haiti was justified?
2, What should have been the response after 9-11 to Al Queda being harbored in Afghanistan?
3. Why wasn't military action in Bosnia justified?
LOST said:
Revisit that fabrication. Did they revisit the fabrication that German solders bayoneted babies in WW1?
So Paul please explain:
1. Why US military action to protect Aristede in Haiti was justified?
2, What should have been the response after 9-11 to Al Queda being harbored in Afghanistan?
3. Why wasn't military action in Bosnia justified?
Unfortunately, most Americans trust what they are told by authorities, even when they know that the same authorities have lied to them in the past.
Per your numbered questions:
(1) The action came after many non-military efforts to reinstate Aristede and was authorized by the UN Security Council so it complied with the UN Charter.
(2) We should have pursued the Taliban's offer to negotiate. For sure we should not have turned the war into one of regime-change.
(3) Wasn't authorized by the Security Council, nor is it clear that non-military means had been exhausted.
paulsurovell said:
LOST said:Unfortunately, most Americans trust what they are told by authorities, even when they know that the same authorities have lied to them in the past.
Revisit that fabrication. Did they revisit the fabrication that German solders bayoneted babies in WW1?
So Paul please explain:
1. Why US military action to protect Aristede in Haiti was justified?
2, What should have been the response after 9-11 to Al Queda being harbored in Afghanistan?
3. Why wasn't military action in Bosnia justified?
Per your numbered questions:
(1) The action came after many non-military efforts to reinstate Aristede and was authorized by the UN Security Council so it complied with the UN Charter.
(2) We should have pursued the Taliban's offer to negotiate. For sure we should not have turned the war into one of regime-change.
(3) Wasn't authorized by the Security Council, nor is it clear that non-military means had been exhausted.
Also, There was no connection between Iraq and World Trade Center.
There is/was a connection between W.T.C. attack and Saudi Arabia. Why didn't we invade their ***** or demand extraditions? Why were members of the Saudi royal family allowed to leave the U.S., days after the attack?
As to the role of the media....
A friend of mine who has since retired was both a reporter for a large newspaper in Washington and also worked for one of the major television networks. According to him, the image of the media as the honorable "fourth estate" is largely a myth for the movies. He said the paper's owners and network execs made it clear that the primary goal was to sell papers or attract viewers and it was not unusual for news editors to urge him to take an angle that would appeal to their readers or viewers (and they knew their audience) or to pressure him to "tone down" or "soften" stories that were critical of large advertisers or that might alienate readers or viewers. Gotta protect those revenue sources! As for coziness with politicians, he said that this not only is common but that it is a bit of a competition (e.g. my pol is more powerful than yours!) among reporters in Washington. Reporters seek to cultivate relationships with powerful politicians because they believe doing so will get them access to inside info before others learn about it...in turn, however, the politicians expect "kind" treatment in the stories written about them. So much for objective journalism, I suppose.
Of course, I am only recounting my friend's experiences. Interestingly, however, this morning's news included a story about an NBC producer who said the network suppressed his (and Ronan Farrell's) story on the accusations against Harvey Weinstein. NBC has countered, claiming that the decision had nothing to do with protecting Weinstein, only that Farrell didn't have adequate corroboration.
ml1 said:
And then there was Sarah Palin. The line from Palin's belligerent ignorance to Trump is a solid, straight bright red one. Unfortunately, this may end up being McCain's longest lasting legacy -- the big shove that he gave his party in the direction of boorish, proud, stupidity and cruelty.
___________________________________________________
From what I read, this might be why Steve Schmidt, Nicolle Wallace, and one other member (?) of the '08 campaign were not invited to funeral services. McCain must have taken this embarrassment to his grave.
I do, however, enjoy the political commentary (MSNBC) of both these folks and try to forget their complicity. Another "adviser" who thought Caribou Barbie was a good call at the time is Bill Kristol.
Bill Kristol has almost always been wrong about things. This goes back to his having Dan Quayle attack Fictional character Murphy Brown with a total misunderstanding of the plot of the show which caused the attack.
BTW Murphy Brown is coming back. Dan Quayle is not.
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
There is/was a connection between W.T.C. attack and Saudi Arabia. Why didn't we invade their ***** or demand extraditions? Why were members of the Saudi royal family allowed to leave the U.S., days after the attack?
Because oil?
sac said:
Formerlyjerseyjack said:Because oil?
There is/was a connection between W.T.C. attack and Saudi Arabia. Why didn't we invade their ***** or demand extraditions? Why were members of the Saudi royal family allowed to leave the U.S., days after the attack?
Oil was the original guess of people who opposed the war. But the U.S. didn't grab it.
The basis may be something as stupid and simple as the "New World Order" where the U.S. was to be the architect of Pax Americana.
I refer you to Wolfowitz and Doug (the dumbest .... on the face of the Earth) Feith.
Regarding the slipping standards of journalism, check out this take on McCain's commitment to "Human Rights": https://fair.org/home/john-mccain-human-rights-ukrainian-nazi-photo-washington-post/
Factotum said:
Regarding the slipping standards of journalism, check out this take on McCain's commitment to "Human Rights": https://fair.org/home/john-mccain-human-rights-ukrainian-nazi-photo-washington-post/
Hagiography isn't new.
I find it kind of weird that apparently this long and extremely elaborate post-death send-off was largely put together by McCain himself.
Who does that?
A relatively new event, is the pre-death life celebration. People who know they are going, and soon, invite their friends and relatives to a life celebration and say the things they would have said at the funeral. Then, maybe give a hug or two and go home.
In some way, it makes sense. I went to one about 30 years ago. It was kinda strange but I felt good about it.
I do have to say - the musical selection at the funeral was pretty awesome. I shed a tear or two as they played the hymn section from Jupiter (from The Planets) as his casket was being carried out of the cathedral.
One of my favorite pieces.
And the arrangement of America was pretty darn good too.
More funeral news -
(wait. Jay Leno is there?)
They just had a brief shot of John Kerry at the funeral, which got me to thinking. Kerry is kind of the liberal analog to McCain, what with their Vietnam history and how they both used their very, very different experiences as the starting off point for a lifetime of service.
Kerry very arguably did far more to benefit people than McCain ever did. Kerry, of course, will get nothing more than a day or two coverage of his death, maybe a few minutes from his funeral. And remember that McCain stood back and let his party completely and dishonestly trash Kerry's army service back in 2004.
Those of you who are sentimentally mooning over McCain, here's some of McCain's YES votes, in support of Trump:
- Nomination of Elaine L. Chao to be secretary of transportation
- Repeal of the stream protection rule
- Repeal of a rule requiring energy companies to disclose payments to foreign governments
- Nomination of Betsy DeVos to be secretary of education
- Nomination of Scott Pruitt to be administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency
- Nomination of Wilbur L. Ross Jr. to be secretary of commerce
- Nomination of Ryan Zinke to be secretary of the interior
- Nomination of Ben Carson to be secretary of housing and urban development
- Repeal of a rule requiring some federal contractors to report labor violations
- Repeal of a Department of Labor rule regarding records of work-related injuries and illnesses
- Repeal of an FCC rule barring internet providers from sharing data on customers' activities
- Nomination of Neil Gorsuch to be associate justice of the Supreme Court
- Repeal of a rule requiring energy companies to reduce waste and emissions
- Nomination of Robert Lighthizer to be United States trade representative
- Repeal of a rule banning some financial companies from using mandatory arbitration clauses
- Overhauling the tax code (Senate version)
Votes that hurt us the public - labor, consumer and environmental adverse votes.
I admit to being baffled by the media coverage of McCain. I am not sure he was all that, in his political career or personal life anyway. He gets huge props from me for his military service and all that he suffered.
BG9 said:
Those of you who are sentimentally mooning over McCain, here's some of McCain's YES votes, in support of Trump:
Votes that hurt us the public - labor, consumer and environmental adverse votes.
- Nomination of Elaine L. Chao to be secretary of transportation
- Repeal of the stream protection rule
- Repeal of a rule requiring energy companies to disclose payments to foreign governments
- Nomination of Betsy DeVos to be secretary of education
- Nomination of Scott Pruitt to be administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency
- Nomination of Wilbur L. Ross Jr. to be secretary of commerce
- Nomination of Ryan Zinke to be secretary of the interior
- Nomination of Ben Carson to be secretary of housing and urban development
- Repeal of a rule requiring some federal contractors to report labor violations
- Repeal of a Department of Labor rule regarding records of work-related injuries and illnesses
- Repeal of an FCC rule barring internet providers from sharing data on customers' activities
- Nomination of Neil Gorsuch to be associate justice of the Supreme Court
- Repeal of a rule requiring energy companies to reduce waste and emissions
- Nomination of Robert Lighthizer to be United States trade representative
- Repeal of a rule banning some financial companies from using mandatory arbitration clauses
- Overhauling the tax code (Senate version)
Thank you for posting. What a 'maverick', dissenting 1 - 3% of the time...
For the most part, his positive contributions to the nation, ceased when he got off the plane from his captivity in N.V.N.
yeah, pretty much all downhill since then.
But as I said, he was a (post 1980) Republican. Nothing else to expect.
Rentals
Sponsored Business
Promote your business here - Businesses get highlighted throughout the site and you can add a deal.
I've always been partial to our invasion of Granada. We stopped it from going Commie.