Is that really what you think I'm doing? I just think that fights in Giants Stadium is a very different thing than months of riots with looting, arson, shootings, vandalism, blocking traffic, etc.
Is that really what you think I'm doing? I just think that fights in Giants Stadium is a very different thing than months of riots with looting, arson, shootings, vandalism, blocking traffic, etc.
Even here there seems a mixing up of moral weights. Does "blocking traffic" really belong right alongside "shootings"? If it does, then arguing that "fights at Giants Stadium" are really that different feels pretty arbitrary.
Is that really what you think I'm doing? I just think that fights in Giants Stadium is a very different thing than months of riots with looting, arson, shootings, vandalism, blocking traffic, etc.
I think you missed my earlier point which is that we don't attribute the rioting after a postseason game to all NFL fans the way some people are attributing arson and looting in Portland to BLM as a whole.
And I'm not talking about fights at Giants games. If you look at the tweets in this article, aside from the hashtags it looks almost exactly the same as the video clips you are posting. And yet, nobody claims that football fandom is inherently violent.
Is that really what you think I'm doing? I just think that fights in Giants Stadium is a very different thing than months of riots with looting, arson, shootings, vandalism, blocking traffic, etc.
I think you missed my earlier point which is that we don't attribute the rioting after a postseason game to all NFL fans the way some people are attributing arson and looting in Portland to BLM as a whole.
And I'm not talking about fights at Giants games. If you look at the tweets in this article, aside from the hashtags it looks almost exactly the same as the video clips you are posting. And yet, nobody claims that football fandom is inherently violent.
I don't know. I think we could make the case that Eagles fans are inherently violent. ;-)
It would be more understandable if the behavior did not go on as long as it has. Can I understand people becoming emotional and losing their bearings for a night? Sure. 3 months? That is something different. At some point you know exactly what you are doing.
Is that really what you think I'm doing? I just think that fights in Giants Stadium is a very different thing than months of riots with looting, arson, shootings, vandalism, blocking traffic, etc.
Even here there seems a mixing up of moral weights. Does "blocking traffic" really belong right alongside "shootings"? If it does, then arguing that "fights at Giants Stadium" are really that different feels pretty arbitrary.
People have been assaulted and one person was killed due to this behavior. There has been a lot of baiting people. They block a car and the car tries to gingerly get by the crowd. They then attack claiming the driver was trying to run them over. There has been a lot of these incidences captured on video and in certain cases it has caused the driver to panic.
Where that fits in the "moral weight" category is hard to know. But it's easy to identify as stupid and dangerous.
Is that really what you think I'm doing? I just think that fights in Giants Stadium is a very different thing than months of riots with looting, arson, shootings, vandalism, blocking traffic, etc.
Even here there seems a mixing up of moral weights. Does "blocking traffic" really belong right alongside "shootings"? If it does, then arguing that "fights at Giants Stadium" are really that different feels pretty arbitrary.
People have been assaulted and one person was killed due to this behavior. There has been a lot of baiting people. They block a car and the car tries to gingerly get by the crowd. They then attack claiming the driver was trying to run them over. There has been a lot of these incidences captured on video and in certain cases it has caused the driver to panic.
Where that fits in the "moral weight" category is hard to know. But it's easy to identify as stupid and dangerous.
Then the act would be "dragging people out of a car and assaulting them" not "blocking traffic."
Is that really what you think I'm doing? I just think that fights in Giants Stadium is a very different thing than months of riots with looting, arson, shootings, vandalism, blocking traffic, etc.
Even here there seems a mixing up of moral weights. Does "blocking traffic" really belong right alongside "shootings"? If it does, then arguing that "fights at Giants Stadium" are really that different feels pretty arbitrary.
People have been assaulted and one person was killed due to this behavior. There has been a lot of baiting people. They block a car and the car tries to gingerly get by the crowd. They then attack claiming the driver was trying to run them over. There has been a lot of these incidences captured on video and in certain cases it has caused the driver to panic.
Where that fits in the "moral weight" category is hard to know. But it's easy to identify as stupid and dangerous.
this is quite disingenuous. there are numerous videos where cars are very clearly trying (and succeeding sometimes) to mow people down.
also, if people are standing right in front of your car, and you keep driving, you are not "gingerly" trying to get by. You are trying to run them over.
And yet again, the people recently killed (3 by my count) were all killed when pro-Trumpers provocatively entered the fray on their own.
It would be more understandable if the behavior did not go on as long as it has. Can I understand people becoming emotional and losing their bearings for a night? Sure. 3 months? That is something different. At some point you know exactly what you are doing.
I know, right? With all the cameras and increased scrutiny, you'd think the police would have stopped shooting unarmed Black people by now.
I don't know. I think we could make the case that Eagles fans are inherently violent. ;-)
It would be more understandable if the behavior did not go on as long as it has. Can I understand people becoming emotional and losing their bearings for a night? Sure. 3 months? That is something different. At some point you know exactly what you are doing.
So there are thresholds for when rioting and arson is or isn't a big deal? If it doesn't go on as long, or if they don't burn more than a certain number of cars, or break a certain amount of windows it's not a big deal? And it's ok if it's celebrating a football win, but not ok if it's protesting social injustice?
I don't know. I think we could make the case that Eagles fans are inherently violent. ;-)
It would be more understandable if the behavior did not go on as long as it has. Can I understand people becoming emotional and losing their bearings for a night? Sure. 3 months? That is something different. At some point you know exactly what you are doing.
So there are thresholds for when rioting and arson is or isn't a big deal? If it doesn't go on as long, or if they don't burn more than a certain number of cars, or break a certain amount of windows it's not a big deal? And it's ok if it's celebrating a football win, but not ok if it's protesting social injustice?
No. It's never ok. It's just that the argument that this is done because of rage or passion is easier to buy when it lasts a day. When it lasts for 3 months and going, people are not acting out of uncontrollable rage or passion. Not any normal people anyway.
No. It's never ok. It's just that the argument that this is done because of rage or passion is easier to buy when it lasts a day. When it lasts for 3 months and going, people are not acting out of uncontrollable rage or passion. Not any normal people anyway.
I guess you missed that Jacob Blake was shot by cops just last week? And that all the sports teams stopped playing sports last week? And that 'not normal people' like law professors recognize:
"It's just the compounded grief, the compounded trauma of these horrific murders, these lynchings," said Alexis Hoag, lecturer and associate research scholar at Columbia Law School. "What's so striking about Kenosha is that it put this racial inequality in sharp relief.
Terp -- it just happened. A cop put seven shots in the back of an unarmed Black man who was walking away. In front of his kids. The cops just dialed the rage and passion up to 11.
BTW: Heres some video from the peaceful protest outside Mayor Wheeler's condo that the Times mentioned. I wonder how the other people in his building feel about this. There were also people camped out in the building lobby.
No. It's never ok. It's just that the argument that this is done because of rage or passion is easier to buy when it lasts a day. When it lasts for 3 months and going, people are not acting out of uncontrollable rage or passion. Not any normal people anyway.
So Black people should just get over their anger about police brutality and systemic racism after a day. Even when more incidents keep occurring.
No. It's never ok. It's just that the argument that this is done because of rage or passion is easier to buy when it lasts a day. When it lasts for 3 months and going, people are not acting out of uncontrollable rage or passion. Not any normal people anyway.
So Black people should just get over their anger about police brutality and systemic racism after a day. Even when more incidents keep occurring.
Who said anything about "getting over"? And I don't think the demographics of the rioters and certainly the long term ones in places like Portland are what your claim seems to assume.
Who said anything about "getting over"? And I don't think the demographics of the rioters and certainly the long term ones in places like Portland are what your claim seems to assume.
Then maybe nobody should be connecting Portland to BLM demonstrators. Which some of us have been saying all along.
Whether you disagree with Michael Reinoehl's tactics, he deserved to be arrested and tried in court, not killed by a motley of federal law enforcement. This seems like a hit job, an extra judicial killing ordered by Trumpsters. When you get rid of the rule of law, you get fascism https://t.co/hAqstbGCxx
In an interview with Vice earlier in the day, he said he was in hiding because of death threats, and he didn't believe that law enforcement would try to protect him.
He had not turned himself in, he said, because he believed right-wing protesters were collaborating with police, who will not protect him or his family.
We in Portland have been dealing with right-wing extremists and police abuse for a long time. Portland has experience with the likes of right-wing extremist groups such as Patriot Prayer and the Proud Boys. This is not new to us.
I would go out to protests and see how the political violence is not a result of the breakdown in the monopoly of violence held by the police. The political violence was a result of the Proud Boys and the police effectively acting as two different elements of the same side. It wasn't that the police had lost the monopoly of violence. It was the police were shooting us in order to allow the Proud Boys to march through the city without proper permits.
Most mainstream news media coverage of the protests which have taken place here in Portland, recently and before, totally fail to acknowledge or even fathom the police involvement in the rise of the far right in this community. That failure has cascaded to the point that we are now at a point where the press is painting the current crisis as some type of grudge match between the feds and the anarchists. In fact, the protest movement is a very diverse group of people — especially by Portland standards — who are coming out night after night and making extraordinarily clear demands and being absolutely brutalized in the streets every night.
and it should be noted that Andy Ngo, who has been cited multiple times in this thread is by no means an independent journalist in Portland. He is known to be a collaborator with and a tool of the Proud Boys. So any of his accusation of protester violence need to be read in that context.
What stage of fascism is "the nation's leader calls the extrajudicial killing of a suspect by the security forces justifiable retribution?" I want to know what to print on these souvenir coffee mugs. https://t.co/Owt1tSt9ZS
Breaking via WSJ: A.G. Barr told federal prosecutors to be aggressive when charging violent demonstrators with crimes, including potentially prosecuting protesters for plotting to overthrow the U.S. government, people familiar with the conversation said. https://t.co/YiqSNNqZ0A
Newt Gingrich: "The number one problem in almost all the cities is George Soros-elected, left-wing, antipolice pro-criminal district attorneys..." Fox hos: "I’m not sure we need to bring George Soros into this." Newt: "Okay... So, it’s verboten?" Long awkward silence. pic.twitter.com/tl4CgGcrzI
Ah, Naughty Newt rears his ugly head once again. This principled, devout catholic impeached Bill Clinton for having an affair with Monica Lewinsky. While he was doing that, he was also cheating on his second wife, while she had cancer, with a 20 year old congressional aide (!) by the name of Callista Bisek. He married her, and she then got appointed by Trump as the US Ambassador to the Vatican.
News: The newly released defense authorization bill prohibits unmarked law enforcement officers from policing protests or riots, which as @GarrettHaake and I reported were spotted in DC during the George Floyd backlash >> https://t.co/sx44GuWsA3
OK, so I guess you're ok rationalizing and denying rioting among sports fans.