It depends on the jurisdiction. I don't know the specifics of DC law, but it could be disturbing the peace, or disorderly conduct. If threats were made, as Senator Paul claims, it could also be considered assault in some jurisdictions.
Then the perpetrators should be arrested, per procedure.
The conspiracy theory that President Donald Trump pushed on Monday that a plane “almost completely loaded with thugs” was set to disrupt the Republican National Convention was almost identical to a rumor that went viral on Facebook three months ago.
In an interview with Fox News host Laura Ingraham, Trump claimed that “we had somebody get on a plane from a certain city this weekend, and in the plane it was almost completely loaded with thugs, wearing these dark uniforms, black uniforms, with gear and this and that.”
He then claimed the matter was “under investigation right now.”
There is no evidence of any such flight. When Ingraham asked for more information about the flight, the president said, "I'll tell you sometime." He then alleged the people were heading to Washington to disrupt the RNC. ... The claim about a flight matches a viral Facebook post from June 1 that falsely claimed, “At least a dozen males got off the plane in Boise from Seattle, dressed head to toe in black.” The post, by an Emmett, Idaho man, warned residents to “Be ready for attacks downtown and residential areas,” and claimed one passenger had “a tattoo that said Antifa America on his arm.”
That post was shared over 3,000 times on Facebook, and other pages from Idaho quickly added their own spin to it, like the Idaho branch of the far-right militia group 3 Percenters.
One post claimed that “Antifa has sent a plane load of their people” and that the Payette County Sheriff’s Office confirmed it. Within days, that version of the rumor picked up enough steam in Idaho Facebook groups that the Payette County Sheriff’s Office had to release a statement insisting that the viral rumor was “false information.”
so much condemnation and hand wringing about "violent" BLM protesters, and yet it's difficult if not impossible to know how much of this violence is being initiated by outside right wing provocateurs. Armed militia-affiliated groups are showing up in Portland, and now Kenosha. It's not unreasonable to think that Trump could calm some of this down by asking his supporters to stay away from BLM and other policy brutality demonstrations. But he hasn't and he won't. And the presence of gun-toting counter demonstrators is now just ramping all of the violence up even higher.
I just got a "Facebook message" with a video and a request to "pass it on".
The video is of some almost-skinhead saying, "Look what happens when I type 'Antifa.com' into my browser - it goes to a Biden campaign site! Tell everybody!"
I messaged the person who sent me this, saying, "This video is for people who say, 'The Internet, how does it work?' Don't send around nonsense like this."
[Edited to add] Come to think if it, I wonder why Mr. Terp hasn't shared that video here yet?
As I've often stated, I have a blanket ban on watching videos posted on social media. So I haven't watched the video terp posted. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it doesn't actually show what's purported, but given I'm not going to actually watch it, I can't fairly comment on it one way or the other.
I can say, unequivocally, that rejoicing over someone's death is repugnant. To the extent that terp's claim about the contents of the video are accurate, that's terrible.
Further, given the topic of this thread being "fascism arrives in full swing," it is especially concerning that the president of the United States, far from seeking to calm the situation, is actively provoking things. Between his having sent unidentified armed men under dubious legal authority earlier and his current support for right-wing vigilantes, this is pretty unnerving stuff. I suppose for those who come to this board with the express purpose of being opposed to people on the political left, I should point out the obvious that none of this justifies violence by civilians, but there is a substantial and graver threat posed to the nation as a whole when it is the president of the United States who is fomenting violence for political ends.
I can say, unequivocally, that rejoicing over someone's death is repugnant. To the extent that terp's claim about the contents of the video are accurate, that's terrible.
I agree with that as a general point. But we should also realize that people who have been trying to have peaceful BLM demonstrations in Portland are being invaded almost every night by groups like the one the victim belonged to. These militias are coming to Portland with guns and stirring up violence. So given that it's reasonable to consider these militias domestic terrorists, is it really that surprising that people trying to protest peacefully might cheer one of their deaths? If someone had shot a "Muslim terrorist" dead, a person who represented a terrorist group invading a U.S. city every night, I'm thinking a lot of people would be ok celebrating that person's death. Probably a lot of the same people horrified that someone would celebrate the death of a member of Patriot Prayer.
I can say, unequivocally, that rejoicing over someone's death is repugnant. To the extent that terp's claim about the contents of the video are accurate, that's terrible.
I agree with that as a general point. But we should also realize that people who have been trying to have peaceful BLM demonstrations in Portland are being invaded almost every night by groups like the one the victim belonged to. These militias are coming to Portland with guns and stirring up violence. So given that it's reasonable to consider these militias domestic terrorists, is it really that surprising that people trying to protest peacefully might cheer one of their deaths? If someone had shot a "Muslim terrorist" dead, a person who represented a terrorist group invading a U.S. city every night, I'm thinking a lot of people would be ok celebrating that person's death. Probably a lot of the same people horrified that someone would celebrate the death of a member of Patriot Prayer.
I mean, I felt uncomfortable celebrating Bin Laden's death. I was glad he was no longer able to inflict damage, so was glad over the effect of his death, but I don't think being happy that someone is dead is really ever a good thing. That's a purposely extreme example to establish an outer bound.
The fact that people are now dying at these events is tragic. I do think the majority of the blame lies in those groups who have decided to invade these demonstrations to provoke personal violence (violence is too broad a word, isn't it? Clearly setting fire to an inanimate object is in a different moral category than shooting someone, but both get called "violent"). And, per my comment, our elected leaders bear a special responsibility, one which Trump is not only shirking but actively repudiating.
My overall aim was more connecting it to the topic heading of this thread. When we talk about fascism, we're talking about the actual way we choose to govern our country, and to that end I wanted to point out the terrible direction Trump is taking us without minimizing the individual acts of violence by private citizens.
or the shorter form -- the people most able to make these incidents rare are instead working to make the happen more often, and are doing so as a means to the end of dismantling democracy because it threatens their political fortunes.
I mean, I felt uncomfortable celebrating Bin Laden's death. I was glad he was no longer able to inflict damage, so was glad over the effect of his death, but I don't think being happy that someone is dead is really ever a good thing. That's a purposely extreme example to establish an outer bound.
The fact that people are now dying at these events is tragic. I do think the majority of the blame lies in those groups who have decided to invade these demonstrations to provoke personal violence (violence is too broad a word, isn't it? Clearly setting fire to an inanimate object is in a different moral category than shooting someone, but both get called "violent"). And, per my comment, our elected leaders bear a special responsibility, one which Trump is not only shirking but actively repudiating.
My overall aim was more connecting it to the topic heading of this thread. When we talk about fascism, we're talking about the actual way we choose to govern our country, and to that end I wanted to point out the terrible direction Trump is taking us without minimizing the individual acts of violence by private citizens.
I'm in agreement with all of that. I didn't celebrate the death of Bin Laden, or the execution of Timothy McVeigh for that matter. I don't believe in the death penalty, so certainly I don't believe in vigilante justice either. I just find it noteworthy that persons who are so outraged that "looting" is happening in the cities, doesn't understand that the people in that video are reacting to the death of a member of a group that is intent on menacing them with guns. It's pretty repugnant to celebrate a death, but again, it's one of those things that I understand why it happens, even if it violates my personal ethics.
It depends on the jurisdiction. I don't know the specifics of DC law, but it could be disturbing the peace, or disorderly conduct. If threats were made, as Senator Paul claims, it could also be considered assault in some jurisdictions.
Then the perpetrators should be arrested, per procedure.
You couldn't point that out without me answering that question? *sigh*
What do you think of R Paul going all in on Trump's conspiracy plot?
I don't really know. I have seen pictures of fiery but peaceful protestors at multiple riots in multiple cities. There is a term for that. They call them tourists. I have not seen any evidence that there is some central group organizing or financing this. I do know there are funds collected to bail fiery but peaceful protesters out.
The conspiracy theory that President Donald Trump pushed on Monday that a plane “almost completely loaded with thugs” was set to disrupt the Republican National Convention was almost identical to a rumor that went viral on Facebook three months ago.
In an interview with Fox News host Laura Ingraham, Trump claimed that “we had somebody get on a plane from a certain city this weekend, and in the plane it was almost completely loaded with thugs, wearing these dark uniforms, black uniforms, with gear and this and that.”
He then claimed the matter was “under investigation right now.”
There is no evidence of any such flight. When Ingraham asked for more information about the flight, the president said, "I'll tell you sometime." He then alleged the people were heading to Washington to disrupt the RNC. ... The claim about a flight matches a viral Facebook post from June 1 that falsely claimed, “At least a dozen males got off the plane in Boise from Seattle, dressed head to toe in black.” The post, by an Emmett, Idaho man, warned residents to “Be ready for attacks downtown and residential areas,” and claimed one passenger had “a tattoo that said Antifa America on his arm.”
That post was shared over 3,000 times on Facebook, and other pages from Idaho quickly added their own spin to it, like the Idaho branch of the far-right militia group 3 Percenters.
One post claimed that “Antifa has sent a plane load of their people” and that the Payette County Sheriff’s Office confirmed it. Within days, that version of the rumor picked up enough steam in Idaho Facebook groups that the Payette County Sheriff’s Office had to release a statement insisting that the viral rumor was “false information.”
Click to Read More
The conspiracy theory that President Donald Trump pushed on Monday that a plane “almost completely loaded with thugs” was set to disrupt the Republican National Convention was almost identical to a rumor that went viral on Facebook three months ago.
In an interview with Fox News host Laura Ingraham, Trump claimed that “we had somebody get on a plane from a certain city this weekend, and in the plane it was almost completely loaded with thugs, wearing these dark uniforms, black uniforms, with gear and this and that.”
He then claimed the matter was “under investigation right now.”
There is no evidence of any such flight. When Ingraham asked for more information about the flight, the president said, "I'll tell you sometime." He then alleged the people were heading to Washington to disrupt the RNC. ... The claim about a flight matches a viral Facebook post from June 1 that falsely claimed, “At least a dozen males got off the plane in Boise from Seattle, dressed head to toe in black.” The post, by an Emmett, Idaho man, warned residents to “Be ready for attacks downtown and residential areas,” and claimed one passenger had “a tattoo that said Antifa America on his arm.”
That post was shared over 3,000 times on Facebook, and other pages from Idaho quickly added their own spin to it, like the Idaho branch of the far-right militia group 3 Percenters.
One post claimed that “Antifa has sent a plane load of their people” and that the Payette County Sheriff’s Office confirmed it. Within days, that version of the rumor picked up enough steam in Idaho Facebook groups that the Payette County Sheriff’s Office had to release a statement insisting that the viral rumor was “false information.”
I get most of my information from the back of my fruit loops box.
Seriously, you seem to have more information about the situation than I do. I didn't know they were shooting with paint guns and mace.
So you felt qualified to comment on something about which you are missing information. You are a wiseass child walking around with his father's cowboy hat on.
How about this. I know everything I need to know about you. Fuc4 You.
I was a bit behind the news yesterday. I took the day off so I could take my kids to the beach. You have to stop and smell the roses from time to time. You should try it. It may lower your stress levels a bit.
so much condemnation and hand wringing about "violent" BLM protesters, and yet it's difficult if not impossible to know how much of this violence is being initiated by outside right wing provocateurs. Armed militia-affiliated groups are showing up in Portland, and now Kenosha. It's not unreasonable to think that Trump could calm some of this down by asking his supporters to stay away from BLM and other policy brutality demonstrations. But he hasn't and he won't. And the presence of gun-toting counter demonstrators is now just ramping all of the violence up even higher.
There were apparently fun toting counter protesters in Portland the other night. What exactly are you trying to pin on the right here? Certainly not the wanton destruction and violence against innocent store owners.
BTW: Heres some video from the peaceful protest outside Mayor Wheeler's condo that the Times mentioned. I wonder how the other people in his building feel about this. There were also people camped out in the building lobby.
As I've often stated, I have a blanket ban on watching videos posted on social media. So I haven't watched the video terp posted. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it doesn't actually show what's purported, but given I'm not going to actually watch it, I can't fairly comment on it one way or the other.
I can say, unequivocally, that rejoicing over someone's death is repugnant. To the extent that terp's claim about the contents of the video are accurate, that's terrible.
Further, given the topic of this thread being "fascism arrives in full swing," it is especially concerning that the president of the United States, far from seeking to calm the situation, is actively provoking things. Between his having sent unidentified armed men under dubious legal authority earlier and his current support for right-wing vigilantes, this is pretty unnerving stuff. I suppose for those who come to this board with the express purpose of being opposed to people on the political left, I should point out the obvious that none of this justifies violence by civilians, but there is a substantial and graver threat posed to the nation as a whole when it is the president of the United States who is fomenting violence for political ends.
You should reconsider online videos. There are a lot of aspects of events the corporate media ignores.
I am glad we agree about celebrating someone's death. Repugnant is a good descriptor.
I don't know if I would go as far to say that he is fomenting violence. However, his tweets that seem to applauded people shooting paintballs, etc at counterprotesters is pretty disconcerting. That being said, so is the fact that Biden campaign staffers Donations to groups bailing out fiery but peaceful protesters. As is the local governments inability or unwillingness to quell the riots. These have been going on for months in Portland. The Seattle mayor let them take over a neighborhood until there were shootings by the movements security forces.
I can say, unequivocally, that rejoicing over someone's death is repugnant. To the extent that terp's claim about the contents of the video are accurate, that's terrible.
I agree with that as a general point. But we should also realize that people who have been trying to have peaceful BLM demonstrations in Portland are being invaded almost every night by groups like the one the victim belonged to. These militias are coming to Portland with guns and stirring up violence. So given that it's reasonable to consider these militias domestic terrorists, is it really that surprising that people trying to protest peacefully might cheer one of their deaths? If someone had shot a "Muslim terrorist" dead, a person who represented a terrorist group invading a U.S. city every night, I'm thinking a lot of people would be ok celebrating that person's death. Probably a lot of the same people horrified that someone would celebrate the death of a member of Patriot Prayer.
I mean, I felt uncomfortable celebrating Bin Laden's death. I was glad he was no longer able to inflict damage, so was glad over the effect of his death, but I don't think being happy that someone is dead is really ever a good thing. That's a purposely extreme example to establish an outer bound.
The fact that people are now dying at these events is tragic. I do think the majority of the blame lies in those groups who have decided to invade these demonstrations to provoke personal violence (violence is too broad a word, isn't it? Clearly setting fire to an inanimate object is in a different moral category than shooting someone, but both get called "violent"). And, per my comment, our elected leaders bear a special responsibility, one which Trump is not only shirking but actively repudiating.
My overall aim was more connecting it to the topic heading of this thread. When we talk about fascism, we're talking about the actual way we choose to govern our country, and to that end I wanted to point out the terrible direction Trump is taking us without minimizing the individual acts of violence by private citizens.
There is more going on by the rioters you support than burning inanimate objects.
BTW: While Trumps rhetoric has been pretty bad, I do not see him as a fascist. The obnoxious behavior by the protesters outside the RNC is a complete non starter in a fascist regime. As is rioting for months in the same place. Calling him a fascist is hyperbolic to the point of costing the person making the assertion quite a bit of credibility IMO.
I can say, unequivocally, that rejoicing over someone's death is repugnant. To the extent that terp's claim about the contents of the video are accurate, that's terrible.
I agree with that as a general point. But we should also realize that people who have been trying to have peaceful BLM demonstrations in Portland are being invaded almost every night by groups like the one the victim belonged to. These militias are coming to Portland with guns and stirring up violence. So given that it's reasonable to consider these militias domestic terrorists, is it really that surprising that people trying to protest peacefully might cheer one of their deaths? If someone had shot a "Muslim terrorist" dead, a person who represented a terrorist group invading a U.S. city every night, I'm thinking a lot of people would be ok celebrating that person's death. Probably a lot of the same people horrified that someone would celebrate the death of a member of Patriot Prayer.
I mean, I felt uncomfortable celebrating Bin Laden's death. I was glad he was no longer able to inflict damage, so was glad over the effect of his death, but I don't think being happy that someone is dead is really ever a good thing. That's a purposely extreme example to establish an outer bound.
The fact that people are now dying at these events is tragic. I do think the majority of the blame lies in those groups who have decided to invade these demonstrations to provoke personal violence (violence is too broad a word, isn't it? Clearly setting fire to an inanimate object is in a different moral category than shooting someone, but both get called "violent"). And, per my comment, our elected leaders bear a special responsibility, one which Trump is not only shirking but actively repudiating.
My overall aim was more connecting it to the topic heading of this thread. When we talk about fascism, we're talking about the actual way we choose to govern our country, and to that end I wanted to point out the terrible direction Trump is taking us without minimizing the individual acts of violence by private citizens.
There is more going on by the rioters you support than burning inanimate objects.
BTW: While Trumps rhetoric has been pretty bad, I do not see him as a fascist. The obnoxious behavior by the protesters outside the RNC is a complete non starter in a fascist regime. As is rioting for months in the same place. Calling him a fascist is hyperbolic to the point of costing the person making the assertion quite a bit of credibility IMO.
There were apparently fun toting counter protesters in Portland the other night. What exactly are you trying to pin on the right here? Certainly not the wanton destruction and violence against innocent store owners.
Isn't showing up with guns enough of a provocation? Is it necessary to "pin" anything else on them than that?
I mean, I felt uncomfortable celebrating Bin Laden's death. I was glad he was no longer able to inflict damage, so was glad over the effect of his death, but I don't think being happy that someone is dead is really ever a good thing. That's a purposely extreme example to establish an outer bound.
The fact that people are now dying at these events is tragic. I do think the majority of the blame lies in those groups who have decided to invade these demonstrations to provoke personal violence (violence is too broad a word, isn't it? Clearly setting fire to an inanimate object is in a different moral category than shooting someone, but both get called "violent"). And, per my comment, our elected leaders bear a special responsibility, one which Trump is not only shirking but actively repudiating.
My overall aim was more connecting it to the topic heading of this thread. When we talk about fascism, we're talking about the actual way we choose to govern our country, and to that end I wanted to point out the terrible direction Trump is taking us without minimizing the individual acts of violence by private citizens.
I'm in agreement with all of that. I didn't celebrate the death of Bin Laden, or the execution of Timothy McVeigh for that matter. I don't believe in the death penalty, so certainly I don't believe in vigilante justice either. I just find it noteworthy that persons who are so outraged that "looting" is happening in the cities, doesn't understand that the people in that video are reacting to the death of a member of a group that is intent on menacing them with guns. It's pretty repugnant to celebrate a death, but again, it's one of those things that I understand why it happens, even if it violates my personal ethics.
I assume that the outrage is directed at me. I never took an ounce of pleasure in anyone being killed. I would also point out that there are clearly armed people on all sides of this. The 3rd person that Rittenhouse shot(in the arm) had a handgun....just for instance. I'd say that it seems likely a BLM supporter had a gun in Portland the other night.
But play it like your team is always the victim if it makes you feel better.
I don't know if I would go as far to say that he is fomenting violence. However, his tweets that seem to applauded people shooting paintballs, etc at counterprotesters is pretty disconcerting. That being said, so is the fact that Biden campaign staffers Donations to groups bailing out fiery but peaceful protesters.
I read the article.
The donations are described as follows, in the article from last May: "At least 13 Biden campaign staff members posted on Twitter on Friday and Saturday that they made donations to the Minnesota Freedom Fund, which opposes the practice of cash bail, or making people pay to avoid pre-trial imprisonment. The group uses donations to pay bail fees in Minneapolis."
What, specifically, is "disconcerting" about these people from around the country, and who are involved with the campaign, doing this?
You should reconsider online videos. There are a lot of aspects of events the corporate media ignores.
I am glad we agree about celebrating someone's death. Repugnant is a good descriptor.
I don't know if I would go as far to say that he is fomenting violence. However, his tweets that seem to applauded people shooting paintballs, etc at counterprotesters is pretty disconcerting. That being said, so is the fact that Biden campaign staffers Donations to groups bailing out fiery but peaceful protesters. As is the local governments inability or unwillingness to quell the riots. These have been going on for months in Portland. The Seattle mayor let them take over a neighborhood until there were shootings by the movements security forces.
is it your position that people who haven't been convicted of anything should be kept in jail indefinitely if they cannot afford bail? Or do you believe all of these people arrested are already guilty even though they haven't been tried?
Maybe Trump needs to grow a silly mustache to convince terp.
It isn't often discussed, but Hitlers reign allowed quite a few violent demonstrations. These would go on for weeks and he would ask the local governments to control them. He would only step in with his goon squads if invited.
I assume that the outrage is directed at me. I never took an ounce of pleasure in anyone being killed. I would also point out that there are clearly armed people on all sides of this. The 3rd person that Rittenhouse shot(in the arm) had a handgun....just for instance. I'd say that it seems likely a BLM supporter had a gun in Portland the other night.
But play it like your team is always the victim if it makes you feel better.
are you "persons"? Do you have a bunch of people responding under your handle?
You should reconsider online videos. There are a lot of aspects of events the corporate media ignores.
I am glad we agree about celebrating someone's death. Repugnant is a good descriptor.
I don't know if I would go as far to say that he is fomenting violence. However, his tweets that seem to applauded people shooting paintballs, etc at counterprotesters is pretty disconcerting. That being said, so is the fact that Biden campaign staffers Donations to groups bailing out fiery but peaceful protesters. As is the local governments inability or unwillingness to quell the riots. These have been going on for months in Portland. The Seattle mayor let them take over a neighborhood until there were shootings by the movements security forces.
is it your position that people who haven't been convicted of anything should be kept in jail indefinitely if they cannot afford bail? Or do you believe all of these people arrested are already guilty even though they haven't been tried?
My position is that if people have been destroying property then perhaps it would be good to keep them off the streets for a bit. I'm uncomfortable with a campaign touting their donations to this cause.
There is more going on by the rioters you support than burning inanimate objects.
BTW: While Trumps rhetoric has been pretty bad, I do not see him as a fascist. The obnoxious behavior by the protesters outside the RNC is a complete non starter in a fascist regime. As is rioting for months in the same place. Calling him a fascist is hyperbolic to the point of costing the person making the assertion quite a bit of credibility IMO.
First, I have yet to see ANYONE on this thread "supporting" the rioters. Stop lying!
As to the issue of fascism, I think Trump qualifies overwhelming. Too bad you support him, and the degrading of the American society.
Credibility must be earned, just like respect. Unfortunately, you have earned neither.
Then the perpetrators should be arrested, per procedure.