The challenges ahead for Pope Francis, Catholics, and the Church worldwide

Con, you doubted that I gave up my bitterness and disparaged anyone who could leave bitterness behind by questioning their sanity. Again, you have no clue about me or others, just your own opinion on this issue that you insist on generalizing.

I didn't doubt you gave it up, I am absolutely astounded that anyone could ( or would want to) give up being bitter over what priests did and the church allowed to happen. Is this really an " opinion"?

conandrob240 said:

What euphemism for rape do you prefer, finnegan? Does that make it feel better?

Substitute "frisking about" for rape and it might generate less emotion. Then we can all get back to Angry Birds and pretend that the frisking about and the laundries and the Crusades and the gay baiting and the intolerance and the Inquisition never happened.

What a sick organization with a bunch of sick ----s at the head of it!

I wouldn't say the "entire" organization is sick when A LOT OF CHURCH has done so many good deeds including saving life. So let's not just generalize the entire church because it's not fare.

Yes, like I said before we (catholics) are aware of the situation and I'm pretty sure most priest and nuns too. We are not happy how they ate handling it and I know in fact some priest and nuns are as well. Hopefully with a new pope he can do something about it and convince the rest changes should be done.

I really REALLY hate the slamming against the entire church ... You guys have no idea the hard work some of these priests and nuns do with basically nothing. Begging for things for the poor, sacrifice there food for others to eat and some of them lives .. Well I can't even explain because it's sad, just to serve God and help the poor. It's not nice that because of predators actions these decent priest and nun have to pay the price for you calling them PREDATORS, RAPIST OR SICK *****S !!

Yes, I'm mad !!

As I alluded to earlier, it's really all about that elephant....

Any group of people who can stand around as children are harmed are a sick bunch of people. No one should stand silent as a child is being raped. Even if you weren't one of the perpetrators, if you had a hand in covering it up, you are sick. If you knew about it after the fact but you still stand around not demanding change, you are sick. You can do all kinds of good but if this is your " bad" - allowing children to be hurt- it just can't cancel each other out.

conandrob240 said:

Any group of people who can stand around as children are harmed are a sick bunch of people. No one should stand silent as a child is being raped. Even if you weren't one of the perpetrators, if you had a hand in covering it up, you are sick. If you knew about it after the fact but you still stand around not demanding change, you are sick. You can do all kinds of good but if this is your " bad" - allowing children to be hurt- it just can't cancel each other out.

I'm not standing or supporting any of the predators or rapist .. I confess I have my disagreements with my church and I hope they will do the right thing. Bur you can expect this will be resolve in a day. But I will support any priest and nun that serves God and try to make a better place for there community.

IM80 said:

As I alluded to earlier, it's really all about that elephant....

And the fact that you and others like you believe that is the biggest reason why things will not get better and why the Church will, in all likelihood, continue down the road towards moral bankruptcy.

Seriously? Disagreement? glad to hear you disagree with the rape of children.

This has gone on many, many years. It has not been a day. I would have liked to hear the new pope say something about making this issue one of his key focus areas but he has not. I am still willing to give him some time to research the issue and decide a course of action but it should be swift and severe. Let's hope we see some action very soon.

finnegan said:

Anyone else notice that L.P seems to be overly fond of using the word "rape" repeatedly?
I know that rhetorical question will just open the flood gates, but, seriously, dude, get help.

Yeah, the perps hate it when you use that word. They always want to use euphemisms to describe their crimes. I could say that I am sorry that the word makes you uncomfortable, but I would be lying.

conandrob240 said:

Seriously? Disagreement? glad to hear you disagree with the rape of children.

This has gone on many, many years. It has not been a day.

And it is still going on today.

I seriously just can't see how anyone can argue any other " side" to this issue. Priests molested and raped children. Fact. The church tried to cover it up. Fact. The church allowed the rapists to still work for their organization and continue to interact with children.Fact. To date, they haven't taken a y action against the priests, offered so much as an apology to the victims and they haven't made any attempt at publicly cleaning their house. Fact.

The abuse took place because of a sense of entitlement. They are better than the rest of us so its o.k., whatever they do.

conandrob240 said:

I seriously just can't see how anyone can argue any other " side" to this issue. Priests molested and raped children. Fact. The church tried to cover it up. Fact. The church allowed the rapists to still work for their organization and continue to interact with children.Fact. To date, they haven't taken a y action against the priests, offered so much as an apology to the victims and they haven't made any attempt at publicly cleaning their house. Fact.

Well, on another thread I pointed out the detailed investigations carried out here in the United States, and the policies put in place, once the scope of the crimes was revealed. And there have been apologies (I agree, apologies aren't as good as actions), from the Pope on down.

nohero said:

Well, on another thread I pointed out the detailed investigations carried out here in the United States, and the policies put in place, once the scope of the crimes was revealed. And there have been apologies (I agree, apologies aren't as good as actions), from the Pope on down.

^
This

conandrob240 said:

I would have liked to hear the new pope say something about making this issue one of his key focus areas but he has not. I am still willing to give him some time to research the issue and decide a course of action but it should be swift and severe. Let's hope we see some action very soon.

Whats there to research? By now it should be obvious what the issue is. For the last 10 years we've heard about this.

Well, as pope, I would,imagine he has new access to info he may not have had before so I am willing to concede that he may need a few weeks to research the detail. I agree there is enough info there that he should have come out immediately with this as one of his key focus areas.

Do you REALLY think that this has been investigated properly and amends made? Are there people out there who really believe that? Incredible.

rukidding said:

nohero said:

Well, on another thread I pointed out the detailed investigations carried out here in the United States, and the policies put in place, once the scope of the crimes was revealed. And there have been apologies (I agree, apologies aren't as good as actions), from the Pope on down.

^
This

Yes, there have been apologies and recompense especially in the US and also some in Argentina. But not from Francis.

Archbishop Gomez of Los Angeles even apologized for his predecessor Cardinal Mahony. Gomez removed Mahony from all public duties in the Archdiocese.

But Mahony, the pedophile coverup guru was still invited to elect the new Pope

Responding to protests over his attendance at the conclave in Rome to elect a new pope, Cardinal Roger Mahony told Catholic News Service this week that the Vatican told him to come to Rome and participate.

“Without my even having to inquire, the nuncio in Washington phoned me a week or so ago and said, ‘I have had word from the highest folks in the Vatican: You are to come to Rome and you are to participate in the conclave,’” Mahony told the news service.

The retired cardinal has been under fire for his handling of sexual abuse cases, particularly his role in hiding molestations by priests from authorities. The cover-ups were revealed with the recent release of thousands of pages of detailed court documents about the cases.

Archbishop Jose Gomez, Mahony's successor as head of the Los Angeles Archdiocese, removed Mahony from all public duties once the court documents became public.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/03/cardinal-mahony-papal-conclave.html

BG9 said:

Yes, there have been apologies and recompense especially in the US and also some in Argentina. But not from Francis.

No, not from Francis, but from Benedict XVI
In 2010:

"Pope Benedict apologized to those who have been sexually abused by catholic priests.
The Pontiff made his comments before nearly two-thousand people during mass at London's Westminster Cathedral.
The pope said priests who abused children brought "shame and humiliation" by their quote "unspeakable crimes."
The Pontiff also met with five British abuse victims."

And:

"In a pastoral letter to the Irish faithful, Benedict said: "I am truly sorry" for the harm done to generations of Irish Catholics who suffered "sinful and criminal" abuse at the hands of priests, brothers and nuns.

"It is understandable that you find it hard to forgive or be reconciled with the church," he said. "In her name, I openly express the shame and remorse that we all feel."

Benedict used his harshest words for the abusers themselves, saying they had betrayed the trust of the faithful, brought shame on the church and now must answer before God and civil authorities."

Wow, he used words. That's got to sting.

How about turning over the criminals to the authorities with necessary evidence to find justice and bring closure?

dave said:

Wow, he used words. That's got to sting.

How about turning over the criminals to the authorities with necessary evidence to find justice and bring closure?

I think you need to use "the Google" and find out about prosecutions, convictions, and stuff like that.

Also, I did post about all of the investigating on another thread, as noted above.

All I mean, with all of this, is that the assumption that there has been no response, is wrong. There was once a terrible response, of course. But consider investigating what the actual facts are, now.

It was just days ago that a Cardinal had to make an apology over a statement that pedophilia was not a crime. How does anyone in a position of supposed moral authority make that type of statement in the first place?

An Argentinian group is now stepping forward saying that Jorge was less than helpful when crimes were reported to him. Even while some justice is starting to be found, it sort of sounds like more of the same is in store.

dave said:

An Argentinian group is now stepping forward saying that Jorge was less than helpful when crimes were reported to him. Even while some justice is starting to be found, it sort of sounds like more of the same is in store.

And others say different. Again, "the Google".

dave said:

It was just days ago that a Cardinal had to make an apology over a statement that pedophilia was not a crime. How does anyone in a position of supposed moral authority make that type of statement in the first place? .

Well, it was stupid, and you posted that he retracted it. I'm not sure what else could be discussed about it.

What can be discussed about it is how could this high placed person even think let alone say such a thing? It wasn't just stupid, it was revealing.

dave said:

It was just days ago that a Cardinal had to make an apology over a statement that pedophilia was not a crime.

dave said:

What can be discussed about it is how could this high placed person even think let alone say such a thing? It wasn't just stupid, it was revealing.

Again, it's been discussed. It's revealing about how this guy didn't get it originally.

And more...
http://www.salon.com/2013/01/22/another_catholic_sex_abuse_cover_up/

dave said:

It was just days ago that a Cardinal had to make an apology over a statement that pedophilia was not a crime. How does anyone in a position of supposed moral authority make that type of statement in the first place?

At least he said it was an illness. There is some movement on the left to have it considered a life style choice.


http://m.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jan/03/paedophilia-bringing-dark-desires-light

...
there is a growing conviction, notably in Canada, that paedophilia should probably be classified as a distinct sexual orientation, like heterosexuality or homosexuality. Two eminent researchers testified to that effect to a Canadian parliamentary commission last year, and the Harvard Mental Health Letter of July 2010 stated baldly that paedophilia "is a sexual orientation" and therefore "unlikely to change".

...
The reclassification of paedophilia as a sexual orientation would, however, play into what Goode calls "the sexual liberation discourse", which has existed since the 1970s. "There are a lot of people," she says, "who say: we outlawed homosexuality, and we were wrong. Perhaps we're wrong about paedophilia."

balmalocha said:

dave said:

It was just days ago that a Cardinal had to make an apology over a statement that pedophilia was not a crime. How does anyone in a position of supposed moral authority make that type of statement in the first place?

At least he said it was an illness. There is some movement on the left to have it considered a life style choice.


http://m.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jan/03/paedophilia-bringing-dark-desires-light

...
there is a growing conviction, notably in Canada, that paedophilia should probably be classified as a distinct sexual orientation, like heterosexuality or homosexuality. Two eminent researchers testified to that effect to a Canadian parliamentary commission last year, and the Harvard Mental Health Letter of July 2010 stated baldly that paedophilia "is a sexual orientation" and therefore "unlikely to change".

...
The reclassification of paedophilia as a sexual orientation would, however, play into what Goode calls "the sexual liberation discourse", which has existed since the 1970s. "There are a lot of people," she says, "who say: we outlawed homosexuality, and we were wrong. Perhaps we're wrong about paedophilia."

Sounds like a load of crap to me. As the Catholic Rape Catastrophe so vividly illustrates, child molesters come in every political stripe.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/20/world/americas/pope-francis-old-colleagues-recall-pragmatic-streak.html?ref=todayspaper

Wasn't the matter of semantics discussed on another thread?