The Bruce Jenner Interview

I'm not a KUWK fan at all. Don't think I've ever watched a single show but yet I know ALL about them so that says something about their  power. 

If Bruce was a young man, I think he'd be more of service to others. Bruce is old(er). He's wealthy. He can isolate himself away from many who disapprove and stay within his circle. Real world transgenders cannot. They are humiliated, harmed, bullied and killed. In many states, transgenders are still thrown into general pop in prisons where they are raped and beaten. I could look at him and say, "You know, some kid looking at Bruce can say, 'if that old dude can do it at 65 then so can I'." But the reality of that is most of these young men and women don't have ample family support to get them through the hard times and cannot financially afford to transition. Bruce is extremely fortunate that he has the means to finally be who he is. I just wished he'd dial the publicity back a bit. I just find something like this so very unique and personal. 

Well, maybe he'll allow more acceptance so that more can have family support.

And, while all your points are true, at this point, any example people can look to and possibly have empathy & understanding for, can start to change perceptions.

First picture of him as a woman.

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/caitlyn-jenner-bruce-cover-annie-leibovitz?mbid=social_twitter

I must say, I think she looks better as a woman! Very impressive!

Great make-up, or great photoshop or both!

Caitlyn? Was that name previously revealed? Good to know!

Does anyone else think she looks a little like a pre-plastic surgery Janice Dickinson? Don't know why that came to mind. Anyway, it's a lovely cover!

I had previously heard the name but it was with a K, Kaitlyn. I guess to match all the other women in the family. Wonder why she went with a C?

Holy cow! Amazing!

http://pagesix.com/2015/06/01/introducing-caitlyn-jenner-bruce-covers-vanity-fair-as-her/?_ga=1.188636972.581879817.1417470668

LL_ said:
I had previously heard the name but it was with a K, Kaitlyn. I guess to match all the other women in the family. Wonder why she went with a C?

I think you answered your own question

Sorry- didn't scroll up to see already posted. The K would have made me laugh. Who knows, maybe his daughters said no way

Some more photos from the shoot

http://defamer.gawker.com/caitlyn-is-greatlyn-in-these-historic-vanity-fair-photo-1708206078?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_facebook&utm_source=gawker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

And here is the answer to the question "Why not with a K?" http://www.tmz.com/2015/06/01/caitlyn-jenner-kardashian-k-woman-photo-vanity-fair-identity/

Take away the make up and photo shopping and what do you have? A slick attempt at marketing a reactionary feminine identity. Big boobs, red dress, vamping for the camera like a '40s pin up. Sorry: I do know transwomen, and they are nothing like this. The entire K clan is synthetic inside and out, up and down.

If she comes out as Caitlyn like this- extreme, very vamped up- maybe people won't hound her every move to get that shocking photo. I would imagine that other photos will be sort of a let down for the paparazzi after this. Just a thought.

Also, maybe she's just really excited and wanted a beautiful photo spread to signify her new chapter. Maybe she's just proud and excited

Unless we've walked in the shoes of a transgender person it is unlikely we could know or understand the complexities of "how" transitioning should be done. Just knowing other transgender persons does not provide a template for anything. Having run across transgender students in my career, this very public transitionand hopefully genuine family support may provide them an alternative scenario. Too many young people have chosen suicide and that is not acceptable in 2015.

She's also a celebrity. Laverne Cox is always gorgeously made up as well. Most Hollywood people do not behave/dress/carry themselves like us "normal folks" anyway. If I was going to be on the cover of Vanity Fair you can be darn sure I'd want to look smokin' hot!

I finally figured out who Caitlyn reminds me of. I said Janice Dickinson above, and that's true, but I actually was thinking of Hillary Farr from "Love It Or List It."

Transition is a very individual and personal journey that each transgender person and their family navigates together. (Just a note, transgender is an adjective, not a noun. There are no 'transgenders'. There are trans women and trans men and transgender people.) I've never seen this show and must confess that I didn't know for sure who Kim Kardashian was until recently, other than a person who was famous for no discernable reason. However, given the public nature of the entire family, there would be no other way for Caitlyn to transition but in public.

One of the really valuable points I see about her transitioning so late in life is the undeniable reality that this is not something that goes away. It's not a phase. You don't get over wanting to be your true self. I think one of the reasons adults are reluctant to support young people who want to transition is because they fear it's something the person would grow out of, given enough time. It's not.

I think it was brilliant to come out with this stunning, glam image on the cover of a magazine. Whatver comes after, that has made quite an impact. Magazines are 'shopped, that's the nature of the beast. I have no doubt that there will be further, less polished images of her, but what a first impression!

Janice Dickerson? Bwwwwahhhh! I can't! I'm sure Janice would not be amused by that. However, Caitlyn looks amazing. Aside from the gender transition, let's keep in mind that this is the body of a now 65 year old woman. Not shabby. Not shabby a'tall.

Tarheelsnj, I was trying to place the face and you've nailed it. Thanks!

kibbegirl said:
Janice Dickerson? Bwwwwahhhh! I can't! I'm sure Janice would not be amused by that. However, Caitlyn looks amazing. Aside from the gender transition, let's keep in mind that this is the body of a now 65 year old woman. Not shabby. Not shabby a'tall.

Its not the body of a woman. Its the body of a male made to look like a woman.

She may feel he's a woman after surgery and hormonal chemical treatments but the body is that of a male. That body is loaded with the "Y" chromosome, the sex determinant chromosome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_chromosome

Were Jenner to disappear, like Hoffa, and her body found 30 years later, one of the things that could be used to identify the body would be sex which would be identified as male if based on cellular material. If we could clone from the cells, we would end up with a male.

Wishing something, feeling psychologically and applying chemicals and surgery to meet that need does not make it so. If outer space aliens with green skin existed, I'm there would be some who would want to be aliens would do surgery to look like an alien. That does not make the body alien just as transgender chemicals and surgery does not really alter the sex of a body.

Now, if they could have swapped out the Y chromosome then you would have a real female.

I have tried my best to ignore all things Kardashian. It's impossible.

I'd just like to congratulate Vanity Fair who after more than 50 years in publishing, finally featured a woman over 60 on the cover.

It's a shame it took Bruce Jenner turning into woman to do it. Kudos to Bruce/Caitlyn for showing that a woman can look beautiful and alluring at 65. I'm jealous. I don't think I ever looked that good.

I read that Cher was on the cover in 2010 at age 64.

I have to admit I find the rather stringy muscles a bit of a turn-off, and the body shape is more male than female, except for the breasts. But still, the overall look is impressive.

Sarahzm, I nearly spit my drink all over the screen at this: "I'd just like to congratulate Vanity Fair who after more than 50 years in publishing, finally featured a woman over 60 on the cover." Whether Cher beat Jenner to the punch or not, it's still rather shameful on VF's part. Oh, well.

Also Meryl Streep, Elizabeth Taylor, Audrey Hepburn and Martha Stewart, fwiw.

I'm not going to delve into the Y vs. X chromosomes. Nor would I compare her or those like her to alien bodies (although I do get the analogy) She no longer has a penis (I think), has a vagina (I think) and breasts and female hormones. What does that make someone who now has almost the same make up as me?

Honestly, the only reason she looks snatched like this at 65 (snatched is slang for looking incredibly put together/in shape) is because she never went through menopause.

Kibbegirl..I don't think she has had sex reassignemnt surgery yet, just breast enhancements.

kibbegirl said:
I'm not going to delve into the Y vs. X chromosomes. Nor would I compare her or those like her to alien bodies (although I do get the analogy) She no longer has a penis (I think), has a vagina (I think) and breasts and female hormones. What does that make someone who now has almost the same make up as me?

The X and Y chromosome is the basis of sex. Almost the same does not apply. Also, she still has penis and her female hormones are due to chemical injections. The Y chromosome ensures that male hormones are still naturally produced by her body even if production is somewhat suppressed .

Besides psychologically feeling she's a woman the only change is outward appearance due to hormone injections, breast augmentation and facial reassignment surgery.

A closer physical analogy would be the boy/girl prostitutes of Thailand. They have their male parts but also augmented breasts, take female hormones and dress as women. She'd be very much in demand in one of their brothels.

ps - The sad difference is the Thailand prostitutes do have to economic liberty to afford getting out of that lifestyle. They are trapped. Whereas, Ms. Jenner,

to be taken with a grain of salt considering the melodrama of the usual sources.

Sex and gender identity are two very different things.

TarheelsInNj said:
Sex and gender identity are two very different things.

That's obvious. However, my replies are to the assertion "that this is the body of a now 65 year old woman" which I disagree with.

BG9 said:

TarheelsInNj said:
Sex and gender identity are two very different things.

That's obvious. However, my replies are to the assertion "that this is the body of a now 65 year old woman" which I disagree with.

It's obvious to some - but it's the heart of the issue as well, and many people miss that point.

kibbegirl said:
Honestly, the only reason she looks snatched like this at 65 (snatched is slang for looking incredibly put together/in shape) is because she never went through menopause.

Actually, being an Olympic champion probably had a LOT to do with it. I doubt s/he has stopped the habit of daily workouts, and s/he was always very streamlined. DNA was in her favor for lean body type, and a lot of work has gone into staying that way, I'd bet. Although not having to go through menopause most likely helped, too.