The Trump Indictments
As I said, to the question of whether voting restrictions are primarily about ensuring accurate vote counts or whether they're an attempt to exclude the "wrong" sorts of people, I think we have our answer.
terp said:
If someone takes me out to dinner I don't go and ask for the most expensive bottle of wine.
If a vineyard owner takes some of his employees out to dinner, can they ask for the most expensive bottle of wine?
terp said:
I don't think the current system has served people's interests very well. I think a lot of this stuff sounds good in the short term.
I am on the record as saying I don't think democracy works. We are on the primrose path. We've gotten here with voting rights being what they are.
I know I'll get lectured about how the government's budget is different from a household budget. But come on. Do people really think we can continue on this trajectory indefinitely? We are adding $1 Trillion to the debt every 100 days?
And the SOTU includes tons of spending. But don't worry! We'll tax the billionaires at 25% and get $50 Billion a year. That won't even pay for the bloodshed in Ukraine.
I'm sorry. Any kid going into 6 figures of debt for a humanities degree probably shouldn't vote. I don't want to discriminate so, the students probably shouldn't vote unless they are paying their way through school. ****, I worked my way through school and they still shouldn't have let me vote.
The only problem with the various student loan programs is the protection from bankruptcy. If people could get out from under student loan by declaring bankruptcy, lenders would be a bit more circumspect. Moral hazard.
If democracy doesn't work, what do you suggest?
PVW said:
As I said, to the question of whether voting restrictions are primarily about ensuring accurate vote counts or whether they're an attempt to exclude the "wrong" sorts of people, I think we have our answer.
PVW said:
terp said:
If someone takes me out to dinner I don't go and ask for the most expensive bottle of wine.If a vineyard owner takes some of his employees out to dinner, can they ask for the most expensive bottle of wine?
They can ask. What they can't do is write a document that demands he gives them whatever they want and use guns to make sure it happens.
terp said:
They can ask. What they can't do is write a document that demands he gives them whatever they want and use guns to make sure it happens.
I kind of wonder, though, where did the money come from that the owner is using to pay for the wine? The process of turning grapes into wine seems a lot easier to understand than that of turning wine into money. It's not at all obvious to me why the workers who made that happen are the ones who who need to be asking the owner for favors...
tjohn said:
terp said:
I don't think the current system has served people's interests very well. I think a lot of this stuff sounds good in the short term.
I am on the record as saying I don't think democracy works. We are on the primrose path. We've gotten here with voting rights being what they are.
I know I'll get lectured about how the government's budget is different from a household budget. But come on. Do people really think we can continue on this trajectory indefinitely? We are adding $1 Trillion to the debt every 100 days?
And the SOTU includes tons of spending. But don't worry! We'll tax the billionaires at 25% and get $50 Billion a year. That won't even pay for the bloodshed in Ukraine.
I'm sorry. Any kid going into 6 figures of debt for a humanities degree probably shouldn't vote. I don't want to discriminate so, the students probably shouldn't vote unless they are paying their way through school. ****, I worked my way through school and they still shouldn't have let me vote.
The only problem with the various student loan programs is the protection from bankruptcy. If people could get out from under student loan by declaring bankruptcy, lenders would be a bit more circumspect. Moral hazard.
If democracy doesn't work, what do you suggest?
I disagree. I also think the subsidies are a problem. The prices of universities goes up and the quality goes down. They have more amenities and more administrators, but the educational quality is on the decline.
What I prefer are systems where liberty is maximized. Generally these would be decentralized systems with voluntary association That is a long conversation.
I would prefer to live under a monarch who valued freedom. I'd prefer to live under a monarch who didn't spy on me, who took less of my $$, who valued freedom of association and speech. Obviously, citizens would be taxed in such a system, but historically that has not been as burdensome as many pay today in our democracy.
In short, I would gladly give up my vote in exchange for liberty.
PVW said:
terp said:
They can ask. What they can't do is write a document that demands he gives them whatever they want and use guns to make sure it happens.
I kind of wonder, though, where did the money come from that the owner is using to pay for the wine? The process of turning grapes into wine seems a lot easier to understand than that of turning wine into money. It's not at all obvious to me why the workers who made that happen are the ones who who need to be asking the owner for favors...
Move here, or NZ. Lots needs to fixed, but there’s lots that meets your “druthers” (Ridski might need to translate that too). And we have both have great coffee and tea!
I was reflecting on some of our political discussions this morning as I early-voted as a Declaration Vote’ for our Mayor. Actual election date is this Saturday, 16th. As I often proudly mention, we mostly use pencil and paper - in case of energy failures (we’ve had a few in the 20 years I’ve worked as an election official). No website crashes, no running out of ink, generally the paper is kept dry and there are heaps of sharpeners and lots of spare pencils. We account for every ballot even spoilt ones. (That includes anything trashed - we check all bins, all ballot boxes, walk the grounds of the polling place to look for discarded ballots just so our bundles of received and issued ballots both tally, and match the numbers of ballots completed/found at the end of voting)
Our paper ballots are initialled by the issuing officer. Most people don’t realise. When we tally votes, we count all ballots in all boxes then we divvy according to the indicated preference. 12 hours of ballots. Of course there are Party scrutineers but they are not allowed to interfere with us at all - raise a concern with Officer in Charge, yes. We work in almost silence, there’s no way anyone could alter anything and be unnoticed because each ballot is checked several times and each worker is observed from above by several people. We usually finish around 11pm. All pre-votes are tallied at regional HQ, then in the next few days all votes are counted again just to be sure. Then all paperwork including all ballots/votes are sent to the Electoral Commission for legal recount & archiving.
You’ve no idea how much fun this is! Truly!
And I have no idea why, when there is so much at stake in your election, so many people choose to simply not show up - especially when you have ‘smart voting’. Weird???
terp said:
tjohn said:
terp said:
I don't think the current system has served people's interests very well. I think a lot of this stuff sounds good in the short term.
I am on the record as saying I don't think democracy works. We are on the primrose path. We've gotten here with voting rights being what they are.
I know I'll get lectured about how the government's budget is different from a household budget. But come on. Do people really think we can continue on this trajectory indefinitely? We are adding $1 Trillion to the debt every 100 days?
And the SOTU includes tons of spending. But don't worry! We'll tax the billionaires at 25% and get $50 Billion a year. That won't even pay for the bloodshed in Ukraine.
I'm sorry. Any kid going into 6 figures of debt for a humanities degree probably shouldn't vote. I don't want to discriminate so, the students probably shouldn't vote unless they are paying their way through school. ****, I worked my way through school and they still shouldn't have let me vote.
The only problem with the various student loan programs is the protection from bankruptcy. If people could get out from under student loan by declaring bankruptcy, lenders would be a bit more circumspect. Moral hazard.
If democracy doesn't work, what do you suggest?
I disagree. I also think the subsidies are a problem. The prices of universities goes up and the quality goes down. They have more amenities and more administrators, but the educational quality is on the decline.
What I prefer are systems where liberty is maximized. Generally these would be decentralized systems with voluntary association That is a long conversation.I would prefer to live under a monarch who valued freedom. I'd prefer to live under a monarch who didn't spy on me, who took less of my $$, who valued freedom of association and speech. Obviously, citizens would be taxed in such a system, but historically that has not been as burdensome as many pay today in our democracy.
In short, I would gladly give up my vote in exchange for liberty.
But if student loans weren't so difficult to get out from under by declaring bankruptcy, they wouldn't be granted so freely.
"I would prefer to live under a monarch who valued freedom. I'd prefer to live under a monarch who didn't spy on me, who took less of my $$, who valued freedom of association and speech. Obviously, citizens would be taxed in such a system, but historically that has not been as burdensome as many pay today in our democracy.
In short, I would gladly give up my vote in exchange for liberty."
How is this monarch held accountable?
terp said:
PVW said:
terp said:
They can ask. What they can't do is write a document that demands he gives them whatever they want and use guns to make sure it happens.
I kind of wonder, though, where did the money come from that the owner is using to pay for the wine? The process of turning grapes into wine seems a lot easier to understand than that of turning wine into money. It's not at all obvious to me why the workers who made that happen are the ones who who need to be asking the owner for favors...
wow, I had no idea that it was Frank Zappa who finally figured out how to be a successful musician.
terp said:
I would prefer to live under a monarch who valued freedom.
Lords don't get to be Lords without murdering the people who used to be Lords. There's no such thing as a monarch who values freedom..
I am trying to understand if Terp is advocating for a government that is not accountable to the people by some orderly means (e.g., periodic free, contested elections).
tjohn said:
I am trying to understand if Terp is advocating for a government that is not accountable to the people by some orderly means (e.g., periodic free, contested elections).
He's been sold a line that living under a dictatorship is totally fine as long as the dictator leaves him alone. Tyranny is fine as long as it targets the people terp doesn't like.
ridski said:
He's been sold a line that living under a dictatorship is totally fine as long as the dictator leaves him alone. Tyranny is fine as long as it targets the people terp doesn't like.
That's sort of the First Rule of Dictatoring. Make sure just enough people are happy with you, what the rest think doesn't matter.
All in all, the Arrakis economy functioned much better under the Harkonnens, despite some Fremen discontent.
has there ever been a benevolent dictator?
pretty sure that's as much a fantasy as the free market.
but libertarians living in fantasy land? merely stating the obvious.
tjohn said:
I am trying to understand if Terp is advocating for a government that is not accountable to the people by some orderly means (e.g., periodic free, contested elections).
When he says "the people" he means men of property.
Libertarianism is really just feudalism -- a call for a loose confederation of baronial lords with absolute power over their own domains, a weak central government that exists only to help coordinate the defense of the baron's property (and which is fully accountable to the lords), and in which everyone else has, at best, the right to decide which lord they should indenture themselves to.
Though I'll note that in actual feudalism, there was at least a theoretical set of obligations from the lord toward his vassals, while in libertarianism even that notional sense of obligation is absent. No positive rights in the Kingdom of Galt.
nohero said:
All in all, the Arrakis economy functioned much better under the Harkonnens, despite some Fremen discontent.
I took the Gom Jabbar and it was easy for me, folks. The Bene Gesserit are saying I can take pain like nobody else. It's unbelievable
— Mr. Chau (@Srirachachau) March 15, 2024
Trump's lawyers say that he can't find anyone who would provide a bond for his appeal.
"Donald Trump has so far been unable to obtain a bond that would allow him to appeal a $454 million judgment against him in a New York civil fraud case without posting the full amount himself, his lawyers said on Monday.
"Trump must either find the cash or post a bond to prevent the state's authorities from seizing his properties while he appeals Justice Arthur Engoron's Feb. 16 decision ordering him and co-defendants to pay $464 million in penalties and interest for misstating property values to dupe lenders and insurers."
There's a chance they he might not actually be a billionaire, and in fact could be closer to broke.
[Edited to add] Flashback to this bull caca -
Question: Judge Engoron says that he wants this $350 million within 30 days. Does Donald Trump have that kind of money sitting around?
— Acyn (@Acyn) February 20, 2024
Habba: I mean, he does. Of course he has money. You know, he’s a billionaire. Um, we know that pic.twitter.com/O6HRd4lBXi
nohero said:
Trump's lawyers say that he can't find anyone who would provide a bond for his appeal.
"Donald Trump has so far been unable to obtain a bond that would allow him to appeal a $454 million judgment against him in a New York civil fraud case without posting the full amount himself, his lawyers said on Monday.
"Trump must either find the cash or post a bond to prevent the state's authorities from seizing his properties while he appeals Justice Arthur Engoron's Feb. 16 decision ordering him and co-defendants to pay $464 million in penalties and interest for misstating property values to dupe lenders and insurers."
There's a chance they he might not actually be a billionaire, and in fact could be closer to broke.
depends on how you measure his wealth I guess. looks like he owns a lot (or a few, who knows) of non-liquid assets. apparently no stock to speak of.
but his properties must be generating income, so what does he do with that?
benzinga (who? never heard of them.) says he's worth 3.1B
drummerboy said:
depends on how you measure his wealth I guess. looks like he owns a lot (or a few, who knows) of non-liquid assets. apparently no stock to speak of.
but his properties must be generating income, so what does he do with that?
benzinga (who? never heard of them.) says he's worth 3.1B
Trump has to find a financial institution which accepts as a fact that he has enough non-liquid assets and/or properties generating income, so that if he defaults they can recoup the bond that they financed. If he can't get a bond, that means that he can't find a financial institution that's convince that he has that much.
If I were a serious banker, why would I want to take my bank to the Trump circus?
nohero said:
drummerboy said:
depends on how you measure his wealth I guess. looks like he owns a lot (or a few, who knows) of non-liquid assets. apparently no stock to speak of.
but his properties must be generating income, so what does he do with that?
benzinga (who? never heard of them.) says he's worth 3.1B
Trump has to find a financial institution which accepts as a fact that he has enough non-liquid assets and/or properties generating income, so that if he defaults they can recoup the bond that they financed. If he can't get a bond, that means that he can't find a financial institution that's convince that he has that much.
I obviously know next to nothing about financing at this level, but I can't imagine it's just a question of him not having enough in assets to cover 500 mil. It must be more complicated than that.
This is from Wapo
=======================================
“Critical among these challenges is not just the inability and
reluctance of the vast majority of sureties to underwrite a bond for
this unprecedented sum, but, even more significantly, the unwillingness
of every surety bond provider approached by Defendants to accept real estate as collateral,” Trump’s attorneys wrote.
=======================================
I wonder why they're rejecting real estate as collateral?
drummerboy said:
I obviously know next to nothing about financing at this level, but I can't imagine it's just a question of him not having enough in assets to cover 500 mil. It must be more complicated than that.
This is from Wapo
=======================================
“Critical among these challenges is not just the inability and
reluctance of the vast majority of sureties to underwrite a bond for
this unprecedented sum, but, even more significantly, the unwillingness
of every surety bond provider approached by Defendants to accept real estate as collateral,” Trump’s attorneys wrote.=======================================
I wonder why they're rejecting real estate as collateral?
I would think it's because there's no guarantee of finding a buyer at even a properly assessed value, and even if it's purchased, the deal would likely take a very long time. As opposed to the ease of selling stocks or bonds, and knowing within a reasonable range, what they'll be worth in the future if they need to be liquidated.
Enjoying the Comments on the NYT story about this. Schadenfreude in many entertaining forms.
More seriously, one NYC attorney in the Comments says that a lot (most?) of the T real estate is held in partnerships, and the partnership agreements forbid their use as collateral. Sounds like a tight spot.
As db said, heh.
Spose T could just be pushing against the due date in hopes of...delay delay delay.
As an old-time poster here said on fb in 2016 or so - "a buffoon and a cheat." Sort of amazing how much damage he's done, and could yet do.
BTW: I'm not openly advocating a monarchy, but I will say that the American Revolution was fought for under a system with MUCH lower tax rates. 
I'm staying with my opinion.