SOTU

I can't point to anything Biden's done that I agree with or have criticisms of that seems related to speculation about his age or mental acuity. I also don't tend to pay much attention to the more performative aspects of politics, though, so maybe this is the sort of discussion that's more relevant to people who watch a lot of politicians on tv?

Smedley said:

”rumors” and “concern from doctors”….wow that’s highly credible stuff upon which to be basing an armchair diagnosis. Has your MOL account been hacked? I ask because somehow I recall your bar used to be much higher, as iirc you’ve effectively said that without full medical records any amateur diagnosis of Biden is pure poppycock and not worth a plug nickel. But perhaps you’ve loosened your standards.

There’s plenty of similar internet stuff out there on Biden, as I’m sure you know, but I’m not gonna go there.

70 doctors wrote a letter to the White House physician asking him to administer a cognitive test to Trump. There is nothing comparable for Biden. Don't you remember this? It was in the news. A lot. 

Dozens of experts urge doctor to examine Trump's neurological health during physical

The letter comes amid questions about the president’s mental state following the recent publication of Michael Wolff’s tell-all book, which describes Trump’s erratic behavior and quotes top officials questioning his competence on the record.

The letter writers note “increasing concern” about Trump’s “declining faculties for complex thought, rambling speech, difficulty completing a thought,” along with “suspect judgment, planning, problem solving and impulse control,” among other issues.

And the quote from me from 3 years ago is  response to an anecdote that's an example of what the doctors were warning about. Behavior that "suggests" it could be indicative of early dementia. 

At this point you're just self-owning. 

PVW said:

I can't point to anything Biden's done that I agree with or have criticisms of that seems related to speculation about his age or mental acuity. I also don't tend to pay much attention to the more performative aspects of politics, though, so maybe this is the sort of discussion that's more relevant to people who watch a lot of politicians on tv?

if one googles "Biden dementia" the only sources it returns are from right wing hacks. I didn't see one from a mainstream pundit, much less an expert in geriatrics or cognition. 

Just listening to T**** extemporize for 2 minutes and it's easy to speculate about his cognitive ability, as many psychologists have. OTOH, Biden is 95% sensible on complex national and international issues.

dave said:

Just listening to T**** extemporize for 2 minutes and it's easy to speculate about his cognitive ability, as many psychologists have. OTOH, Biden is 95% sensible on complex national and international issues.

I dunno. TFG is such a complex mix of personality disorders that it's hard to say whether his problems are dementia related or not.

drummerboy said:

dave said:

Just listening to T**** extemporize for 2 minutes and it's easy to speculate about his cognitive ability, as many psychologists have. OTOH, Biden is 95% sensible on complex national and international issues.

I dunno. TFG is such a complex mix of personality disorders that it's hard to say whether his problems are dementia related or not.

this is true. But one of the things that Trump does that is concerning to observers that probably isn't related to his personality is that he interrupts his own thoughts and goes on tangents. He can't seem to stay focused on topic. The rambling speeches that go off in all directions are an indicator of concern. 

It's nothing like Biden faltering over a word or forgetting a name. 

Anyone feeling especially masochistic can listen to Trump's 2 hour CPAC speech from 2019. That's the one that was being called "unhinged" by people who watched it. 
https://www.c-span.org/video/?458390-1/president-trump-criticizes-russia-investigation-democrats-hour-long-speech-cpac

This tester comes with my zero water filter, it’s pretty accurate. I’ve had fun testing bottled water claiming to be purified, not so pure. 
TDS stands for Totally Dissolved Solids…not what MT thinks it stands for.

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

”rumors” and “concern from doctors”….wow that’s highly credible stuff upon which to be basing an armchair diagnosis. Has your MOL account been hacked? I ask because somehow I recall your bar used to be much higher, as iirc you’ve effectively said that without full medical records any amateur diagnosis of Biden is pure poppycock and not worth a plug nickel. But perhaps you’ve loosened your standards.

There’s plenty of similar internet stuff out there on Biden, as I’m sure you know, but I’m not gonna go there.

70 doctors wrote a letter to the White House physician asking him to administer a cognitive test to Trump. There is nothing comparable for Biden. Don't you remember this? It was in the news. A lot. 

Dozens of experts urge doctor to examine Trump's neurological health during physical

The letter comes amid questions about the president’s mental state following the recent publication of Michael Wolff’s tell-all book, which describes Trump’s erratic behavior and quotes top officials questioning his competence on the record.

The letter writers note “increasing concern” about Trump’s “declining faculties for complex thought, rambling speech, difficulty completing a thought,” along with “suspect judgment, planning, problem solving and impulse control,” among other issues.

And the quote from me from 3 years ago is  response to an anecdote that's an example of what the doctors were warning about. Behavior that "suggests" it could be indicative of early dementia. 

At this point you're just self-owning. 

Whatever. I thought maybe you’d actually write off your Trump dementia diagnosis as a momentary lapse of reason or somesuch, rather than doubling down on it. You know, to keep your standards for assessing dementia (or lack thereof) consistent.  

But okay, new rules are, Biden - need full medical records and probably in-person meetings to make any judgement; just observing from afar not good enough. Trump - observing from afar is sufficient; no need for medical records; internet chatter is admissible.

Got it. 

Trumpenstein said he “went decades without a war “ when he was in office. 
There’s a difference between someone stuttering ,and someone going off on fantastical ramblings. Trumpenstein is a pathological liar. Period. He should be the last person criticizing Biden about being old. He’s no spring chicken, maybe he thinks heya chicken hawk..  nuts!

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

”rumors” and “concern from doctors”….wow that’s highly credible stuff upon which to be basing an armchair diagnosis. Has your MOL account been hacked? I ask because somehow I recall your bar used to be much higher, as iirc you’ve effectively said that without full medical records any amateur diagnosis of Biden is pure poppycock and not worth a plug nickel. But perhaps you’ve loosened your standards.

There’s plenty of similar internet stuff out there on Biden, as I’m sure you know, but I’m not gonna go there.

70 doctors wrote a letter to the White House physician asking him to administer a cognitive test to Trump. There is nothing comparable for Biden. Don't you remember this? It was in the news. A lot. 

Dozens of experts urge doctor to examine Trump's neurological health during physical

The letter comes amid questions about the president’s mental state following the recent publication of Michael Wolff’s tell-all book, which describes Trump’s erratic behavior and quotes top officials questioning his competence on the record.

The letter writers note “increasing concern” about Trump’s “declining faculties for complex thought, rambling speech, difficulty completing a thought,” along with “suspect judgment, planning, problem solving and impulse control,” among other issues.

And the quote from me from 3 years ago is  response to an anecdote that's an example of what the doctors were warning about. Behavior that "suggests" it could be indicative of early dementia. 

At this point you're just self-owning. 

Whatever. I thought maybe you’d actually write off your Trump dementia diagnosis as a momentary lapse of reason or somesuch, rather than doubling down on it. You know, to keep your standards for assessing dementia (or lack thereof) consistent.  

But okay, new rules are, Biden - need full medical records and probably in-person meetings to make any judgement; just observing from afar not good enough. Trump - observing from afar is sufficient; no need for medical records; internet chatter is admissible.

Got it. 

observation from doctors is the important distinction. And that they actually requested Trump's doctor to test him. And he did.  I can't believe you're being this obtuse.  

actually I can

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

”rumors” and “concern from doctors”….wow that’s highly credible stuff upon which to be basing an armchair diagnosis. Has your MOL account been hacked? I ask because somehow I recall your bar used to be much higher, as iirc you’ve effectively said that without full medical records any amateur diagnosis of Biden is pure poppycock and not worth a plug nickel. But perhaps you’ve loosened your standards.

There’s plenty of similar internet stuff out there on Biden, as I’m sure you know, but I’m not gonna go there.

70 doctors wrote a letter to the White House physician asking him to administer a cognitive test to Trump. There is nothing comparable for Biden. Don't you remember this? It was in the news. A lot. 

Dozens of experts urge doctor to examine Trump's neurological health during physical

The letter comes amid questions about the president’s mental state following the recent publication of Michael Wolff’s tell-all book, which describes Trump’s erratic behavior and quotes top officials questioning his competence on the record.

The letter writers note “increasing concern” about Trump’s “declining faculties for complex thought, rambling speech, difficulty completing a thought,” along with “suspect judgment, planning, problem solving and impulse control,” among other issues.

And the quote from me from 3 years ago is  response to an anecdote that's an example of what the doctors were warning about. Behavior that "suggests" it could be indicative of early dementia. 

At this point you're just self-owning. 

Whatever. I thought maybe you’d actually write off your Trump dementia diagnosis as a momentary lapse of reason or somesuch, rather than doubling down on it. You know, to keep your standards for assessing dementia (or lack thereof) consistent.  

But okay, new rules are, Biden - need full medical records and probably in-person meetings to make any judgement; just observing from afar not good enough. Trump - observing from afar is sufficient; no need for medical records; internet chatter is admissible.

Got it. 

observation from doctors is the important distinction. And that they actually requested Trump's doctor to test him. And he did.  I can't believe you're being this obtuse.  

actually I can

Trump apparently did take a cognitive test in 2018 and passed - https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/16/measure-your-mental-fitness-compared-to-president-trump-test-results.html

But then to you, his bragging about it afterwards supersedes the test and of course indicates he has early dementia.

Meanwhile I don't think there's anything at all about Biden ever taking such a test - and believe me there are plenty of people who think he should. 

Whatever the limitations of the test Trump took, and the fact that it was 5 years ago, in my book passing a test 5 years ago > not taking a test at all.  

I guess that's not the case for you. 

I can't believe you're being this nakedly partisan

Actually I can  

Smedley said:

Trump apparently did take a cognitive test in 2018 and passed - https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/16/measure-your-mental-fitness-compared-to-president-trump-test-results.html

But then to you, his bragging about it afterwards supersedes the test and of course indicates he has early dementia.

From the article: "The questions range from identifying certain kinds of animals, to repeating back specific sets of words."

That's the “person, woman. man, camera, TV" test.  

[Edited to add] 

Smedley said:

Trump apparently did take a cognitive test in 2018 and passed - https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/16/measure-your-mental-fitness-compared-to-president-trump-test-results.html

But then to you, his bragging about it afterwards supersedes the test and of course indicates he has early dementia.

Meanwhile I don't think there's anything at all about Biden ever taking such a test - and believe me there are plenty of people who think he should. 

Whatever the limitations of the test Trump took, and the fact that it was 5 years ago, in my book passing a test 5 years ago > not taking a test at all.  

I guess that's not the case for you. 

I can't believe you're being this nakedly partisan

Actually I can  

the test is a baseline measure. Passing it means a person doesn't have advanced dementia. The relevant fact is that doctors believed Trump needed to have a cognitive baseline measured. 

I don't think you realize how ignorant your continued comments on this topic make you look. 

All to try and hit me with a "gotcha."

Sad

Agreeing / disagreeing is fine, that’s what a forum like this is all about. But if you’re gonna be all preachy and judgmental about even the existence of my opinion, that’s what motivated me to do a quick search and see if you practice what you preach. And it turns out you haven’t been wholly consistent in that regard.

Enjoy the Super Bowl.

Smedley said:

Agreeing / disagreeing is fine, that’s what a forum like this is all about. But if you’re gonna be all preachy and judgmental about even the existence of my opinion, that’s what motivated me to do a quick search and see if you practice what you preach. And it turns out you haven’t been wholly consistent in that regard.

Enjoy the Super Bowl.

it's typical of you that you think your comments about Biden and mine about Trump are equivalent. 

Lifesshort Serenade.

It’s not a test for dementia - it’s a memory test, used for a variety of settings and with a differing range of other tests. I last took it just before TFG did, and there was no camera or tv in it. You need to recall the images both forwards and backwards a number of times while in the middle of other tasks. You also need to navigate your way out of several mazes (which I find extraordinarily difficult because they reduce me to tears; the self-correction part of my memory is severely impaired even though I can see what needs to be done). There’s also a spelling, and a reading component. 
I have no doubt anyone would find the test somewhat challenging and a bit puzzling. Even if you complete it easily.

ETA: sorry: I get a bit grumpy when people seem to discuss this ‘offhandedly’ or dismissively. My first round of testing took over 12 hours, over 3 weeks. My FIL who masked his Alzheimers really well for years, also took a couple of weeks of testing. Most of my clients with memory loss due to a medical cause also did. 

The thing I don't get is that most of the memory parts to these tests are only three words.

The words are also usually not associated with each other.  So I highly doubt "person, woman, man" would be included in any memory test, and I think "camera and TV" and always in T****s head.

Sample words would be: "apple, penny, table", “banana, sunrise, chair,” or “daughter, heaven, mountain"

You also have to spell a word backwards, recall objects shown to you in the order shown (or backwards), do some basic numerical work, and some very basic shape/object manipulation. Most of which relies on your ability to remember instructions, elementary school projects etc. The tester is also observing your hearing, speech, movement and gestures/expressions. (These may indicate if you’ve recently had an injury or medical episode)

joanne said:

It’s not a test for dementia - it’s a memory test, used for a variety of settings and with a differing range of other tests. I last took it just before TFG did, and there was no camera or tv in it. You need to recall the images both forwards and backwards a number of times while in the middle of other tasks. You also need to navigate your way out of several mazes (which I find extraordinarily difficult because they reduce me to tears; the self-correction part of my memory is severely impaired even though I can see what needs to be done). There’s also a spelling, and a reading component. 
I have no doubt anyone would find the test somewhat challenging and a bit puzzling. Even if you complete it easily.

ETA: sorry: I get a bit grumpy when people seem to discuss this ‘offhandedly’ or dismissively. My first round of testing took over 12 hours, over 3 weeks. My FIL who masked his Alzheimers really well for years, also took a couple of weeks of testing. Most of my clients with memory loss due to a medical cause also did. 

I didn't mean to seem as if I was discussing it offhandedly. I think it was pretty significant that the test was administered to the POTUS. And I understand it is not itself a test for dementia. It's as you are saying better described as a memory test or a test of basic cognitive skills. My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that it would be given to someone like Trump to set a baseline for comparison to future tests if he seems to be showing a worsening of some of the symptoms that that his staffers were observing in him. And I would also think it's a test that any healthy person past a certain age might consider helpful to have a baseline measure if there is a direct family history of Alzheimers or any other type of dementia.