"The Ukrainian Job" - or - Russian Propaganda About 2016 Election Interference, Now Being Used By Trump Defenders

nohero said:

paulsurovell said:

nohero said:

paulsurovell said:

My favorite line in this chronology of US bullying of Ukraine:

While giving Shokin a last chance to shape up (Pyatt says,

You can read the speech (Mr. Cramer gave a link to it).  It's not "bullying". 

Here's an excerpt: "Despite an invader in the east – using weapons and words to weaken, dispirit, and distract – national, regional, and local officials are moving forward with difficult political and economic reforms to bring Ukraine closer to its chosen European future. However, they – we – must not ignore an equally tenacious enemy dead set on undermining Ukraine’s economic success. One that is equally dangerous to Ukraine’s future. That enemy is corruption."

Calling the speech "bullying" is just ignoring that Russia is invading, occupying, and killing in Ukraine.

 When the US tells Ukraine what to do it's bullying.

What youre ignorning is that Ukraine and Russia have agreed to a cease-fire based on the Minsk agreement.  Your refusal to express support for the agreement suggests you want the killing to continue.

I was responding to Paul's comment that his "favorite part" was a September 24, 2015 speech.  So I couldn't "ignore" a recent cease-fire agreement when responding to that comment about a speech four years ago.

Paul seems to be looking for reasons to repeat a stupid claim about what I do or don't think about something.  I have no doubt he'll find a way to repeat it.

 Why don't you prove that the claim is "stupid" by just saying that you support the cease-fire agreement?

You won't because you don't support the agreement, you'd rather see more killing.

ridski said:

Blood for oil? Shouldn’t we be organizing a vigil in Ricalton Square against this? Where’s the Be About Peace guy, he’ll get everyone together.

Be About Peace guy takes his glasses off when Uncle Vladi is the one going for the oil.

It was never Be About Peace, it was always Be About Russia.  

paulsurovell said:

Anybody here against Trump's military takeover of Syria's oil fields?

Yarp.

paulsurovell said:

You won't because you don't support the agreement, you'd rather see more killing.

Among the things I don't need on a Sunday -

Being accused of wanting to see more killing, by someone more sympathetic to the Assad regime than to civilians who are its targets, and to Russia's invasion and military occupation of Ukraine. 

nohero said:

paulsurovell said:

You won't because you don't support the agreement, you'd rather see more killing.

Among the things I don't need on a Sunday -

Being accused of wanting to see more killing, by someone more sympathetic to the Assad regime than to civilians who are its targets, and to Russia's invasion and military occupation of Ukraine. 

Can we talk about the Ukraine-Russia-France-Germany cease-fire agreement?

Yes or No, do you support it? Or do you support continuation of the killing?

Bump.

Anybody?

paulsurovell said:

Anybody here against Trump's military takeover of Syria's oil fields?

paulsurovell said:

 

paulsurovell said:

Bump.

Anybody?

paulsurovell said:

Anybody here against Trump's military takeover of Syria's oil fields?

 

 It’s fine, I skip your posts without reading them, too.

paulsurovell said:

Can we talk about the Ukraine-Russia-France-Germany cease-fire agreement?

Yes or No, do you support it? Or do you support continuation of the killing?

 Leaving out the option of "end the killing without rewarding Russia" is pretty revealing about the questioner.

paulsurovell said:

Bump.

Anybody?

paulsurovell said:

Anybody here against Trump's military takeover of Syria's oil fields?

 

 Anybody here against Trump's betrayal of the Kurds, which resulted in the pretext Trump used for the military takeover of the oil fields?

We already know Paul is on record as "in favor" of that.

Now, back to the thread topic -

paulsurovell said:

Anybody here against Trump's military takeover of Syria's oil fields?

 So - we point out that Putin took over Crimea and secured trillions of dollar of oil fields and this is your reply?  A classic Surovell whataboutism whenever Putin is called out.  Of course we're not fine with anything Trump does - does that make what Putin did ok?  

Update from Trump's man in Ukraine.

Yovanovitch needed to be removed for many reasons most critical she was denying visas to Ukrainians who wanted to come to US and explain Dem corruption in Ukraine. She was OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE and that’s not the only thing she was doing. She at minimum enabled Ukrainian collusion.

— Rudy Giuliani (@RudyGiuliani) December 17, 2019

hmm, is there any reason they couldn't explain dem corruption from the Ukraine?  They still can.  Or they could actually write something and email it.  Or post it online.  Is this all Rudy got?

jamie said:

hmm, is there any reason they couldn't explain dem corruption from the Ukraine?  They still can.  Or they could actually write something and email it.  Or post it online.  Is this all Rudy got?

 Well, there's the interview he did for OAN, which was rebroadcast on Russian state TV this week.

nohero said:

paulsurovell said:

Can we talk about the Ukraine-Russia-France-Germany cease-fire agreement?

Yes or No, do you support it? Or do you support continuation of the killing?

 Leaving out the option of "end the killing without rewarding Russia" is pretty revealing about the questioner.

 So you're against the cease-fire agreement because it "rewards Russia"?

nohero said:

paulsurovell said:

Bump.

Anybody?

paulsurovell said:

Anybody here against Trump's military takeover of Syria's oil fields?

 

 Anybody here against Trump's betrayal of the Kurds, which resulted in the pretext Trump used for the military takeover of the oil fields?

We already know Paul is on record as "in favor" of that.

 Go back in the thread and you'll see that Trump betrayed the Kurds when he blocked them from negotiating with Assad long before he decided to withdraw except from the oil fields.

nohero said:

Now, back to the thread topic -

 That's the same FBI that submitted a fraudulent FISA application.

jamie said:

paulsurovell said:

Anybody here against Trump's military takeover of Syria's oil fields?

 So - we point out that Putin took over Crimea and secured trillions of dollar of oil fields and this is your reply?  A classic Surovell whataboutism whenever Putin is called out.  Of course we're not fine with anything Trump does - does that make what Putin did ok?  

Are you saying you're against Trump's takeover of Syria's oil fields? You seem to be implying that but it's not clear.

paulsurovell said:

nohero said:

Now, back to the thread topic -

 That's the same FBI that submitted a fraudulent FISA application.

 That's a stupid argument in favor of Trump's claim about Ukraine.

paulsurovell said:

nohero said:

paulsurovell said:

Bump.

Anybody?

paulsurovell said:

Anybody here against Trump's military takeover of Syria's oil fields?

 

 Anybody here against Trump's betrayal of the Kurds, which resulted in the pretext Trump used for the military takeover of the oil fields?

We already know Paul is on record as "in favor" of that.

 Go back in the thread and you'll see that Trump betrayed the Kurds when he blocked them from negotiating with Assad long before he decided to withdraw except from the oil fields.

 I was talking about the actual betrayal of the Kurds, by allowing Turkey to occupy their territory and compromise their defensive position.

paulsurovell said:

jamie said:

paulsurovell said:

Anybody here against Trump's military takeover of Syria's oil fields?

 So - we point out that Putin took over Crimea and secured trillions of dollar of oil fields and this is your reply?  A classic Surovell whataboutism whenever Putin is called out.  Of course we're not fine with anything Trump does - does that make what Putin did ok?  

Are you saying you're against Trump's takeover of Syria's oil fields? You seem to be implying that but it's not clear.

 Has Trump taken over the oil fields?  Of course I'm against this action.  

My point was - Putin did this - and you are unable to see the wrongness of it.  At least you can't seem to publicly state a concern over it.  You're main contention is that we shouldn't criticize Vlad because he has nukes.  Please let us know what your thoughts are of this ACTUAL land AND sea grab which will make Putin and his cronies very rich.