South Orange BOT election
Heh. The only thing I like about our TC elections is that they take place in November.
As to SO, MFABSO is a strong supporter of Ms. Collum and will be taking a serious look at Mr. Zuckerman and the folks running with him.
I really would love to see our town elections moved to November. The intention may really be to focus more attention on town politics but the undeniable effect is reduced voter participation.
Klinker said:
I really would love to see our town elections moved to November. The intention may really be to focus more attention on town politics but the undeniable effect is reduced voter participation.
I agree.
cramer said:
It would also save us the $25,000 it costs to have election in May.
I wonder if that's enough money to finally get lights on our street.
cramer said:
I know you've been trying to get lights for several years. What has been given as the reason for not installing lights?
The last time, was the craziest. They were working on new curbs before paving the street and had left a huge trench along the road. It was completely dark when I stepped out of my car and fell down the rabbit hole. I limped into the TH meeting and asked for lights, not even complaining that I almost broke my leg because they didn't even cover the trench in front of my driveway. I was told that Walter Clarke would look into it.
The next meeting he said since the curbs were almost in it would be too disruptive, even though they hadn't even started to pave the street.
So maybe a nice property tax deduction for our street since we pay for our own lights
I had attended a home security meeting years ago and the conclusion was that the homes off busy avenues, particularly cul de sacs, and streets that were dark were at the greatest risk. Bingo.
We have had a recent robbery and there was a break in last year or so.
I won't be ghoulish about what I think it will take to get them moving.
Morganna said:
We have had a recent robbery and there was a break in last year or so.
I won't be ghoulish about what I think it will take to get them moving.
Lawyers or death. Better chance with both.
Morganna said:
I won't be ghoulish about what I think it will take to get them moving.
Sorry to blame the victims, but what would it take to get SO residents to put brighter bulbs in their exterior light fixtures and leave their porch lights on until bedtime? It makes a big difference on these dark streets.
kthnry said:
Morganna said:Sorry to blame the victims, but what would it take to get SO residents to put brighter bulbs in their exterior light fixtures and leave their porch lights on until bedtime? It makes a big difference on these dark streets.
I won't be ghoulish about what I think it will take to get them moving.
Most of my neighbors and I keep our front porch lights on all night. I have a detached garage at the back of the property, and keep one on all night there as well.
Can anyone who knows the candidates well say what their philosophies on development are? Bob Zuckerman's team says they are for "smart development," but they don't define the term.
What I am really asking is, which candidates are the ones who tend to see the upsides of development and densification and which candidates are the ones who tend to see more the downsides of densification? Who is the YIMBY and who is the NIMBY?
I think it’s too early to officially say. So far, all we have formally heard is “Everyone Belongs Here”, which suddenly was dropped and became “One Village For All”.
If South Orange shops and businesses have sidewalk sales once a month it might calm the nerves of the newcomers a bit, maybe that might work in getting the people who dislike Sheena to relax a bit... before Sheena came riding into town, crazy Thorpey was slashing prices all over the place...
I'm hoping to hear more from candidates in the next month or so. There will be forums, etc. I know our neighborhood association is putting one together.
kthnry said:
Morganna said:Sorry to blame the victims, but what would it take to get SO residents to put brighter bulbs in their exterior light fixtures and leave their porch lights on until bedtime? It makes a big difference on these dark streets.
I won't be ghoulish about what I think it will take to get them moving.
Some of us do. As we have large property my own house has 11 big security lights around the house and garage and add that to the electric bill when they are on all night. We used to have solicitors after dark. I called the police a few years ago when I saw a few men sitting at the end of my driveway.
If your house is lit up the like Soprano compound but your neighbors chose not to, it is not hard to park a car and wait.
Once pulled into my driveway and another car pulled behind me blocking my exit. A man got out and approached my car asking for directions and it just felt odd so doors locked I honked my horn.
Thinking of putting a "member of the NRA "sign on my lawn.
Runner_Guy said:
Can anyone who knows the candidates well say what their philosophies on development are? Bob Zuckerman's team says they are for "smart development," but they don't define the term.
What I am really asking is, which candidates are the ones who tend to see the upsides of development and densification and which candidates are the ones who tend to see more the downsides of densification? Who is the YIMBY and who is the NIMBY?
The problem with many YIMBY’s is that they reside in areas that are unaffected by development. They tend not to live in the already dense parts of the village and potentially having some five story building overlooking their property.
annielou said:
Runner_Guy said:The problem with many YIMBY’s is that they reside in areas that are unaffected by development. They tend not to live in the already dense parts of the village and potentially having some five story building overlooking their property.
Can anyone who knows the candidates well say what their philosophies on development are? Bob Zuckerman's team says they are for "smart development," but they don't define the term.
What I am really asking is, which candidates are the ones who tend to see the upsides of development and densification and which candidates are the ones who tend to see more the downsides of densification? Who is the YIMBY and who is the NIMBY?
I've said on MOL in the past, when the discussion has been about developments in other parts of town which do not directly effect me, that I don't think it is right for me to argue for a development if the residents directly effected by it don't want it. Many years ago, when there was the discussion about developing the Quarry, I didn't think it was appropriate for people in other parts of town to criticize the "Quarry folk."
From what I've seen, my impression is that any recent development, and most of it has been on Valley St., * has been done with full participation of the residents and has only gone ahead after listening to and accomodating the concerns of the neighbors.
* Third/Valley was done before Sheena was VP.
cramer said:
annielou said:I've said on MOL in the past, when the discussion has been about developments in other parts of town which do not directly effect me, that I don't think it is right for me to argue for a development if the residents directly effected by it don't want it. Many years ago, when there was the discussion about developing the Quarry, I didn't think it was appropriate for people in other parts of town to criticize the "Quarry folk."
Runner_Guy said:The problem with many YIMBY’s is that they reside in areas that are unaffected by development. They tend not to live in the already dense parts of the village and potentially having some five story building overlooking their property.
Can anyone who knows the candidates well say what their philosophies on development are? Bob Zuckerman's team says they are for "smart development," but they don't define the term.
What I am really asking is, which candidates are the ones who tend to see the upsides of development and densification and which candidates are the ones who tend to see more the downsides of densification? Who is the YIMBY and who is the NIMBY?
From what I've seen, my impression is that any recent development, and most of it has been on Valley St., * has been done with full participation of the residents and has only gone ahead after listening to and accomodating the concerns of the neighbors.
* Third/Valley was done before Sheena was VP.
I strongly disagree with giving neighbors veto power. This is how South Orange got into hell with the Village Hall redevelopment, where the owner of the property across the street objected and threatened to keep the project in litigation for years. Although I read that Village Hall is still supposed to become a restaurant, the possibility was almost ruined by a neighbor's objection.
Looking at residential high-density redevelopment, the benefits are often felt far and wide through keeping rents more affordable, helping mitigate CO2 emissions, keeping SO's tax increases more moderate, keeping the SOMSD's tax increases more moderate, and providing more customers to South Orange's merchants and restaurants.
Because the drawbacks are felt in a smaller geographic footprint, the adjacent neighbors are always going to be more likely to oppose a development than people who live farther away and who might see the big picture.
Also, most of SO's prime redevelopment sites don't have residential neighbors, like Vose+SO Avenue and Church + Valley.
Although I am sympathetic to anyone who would have an apartment building literally across their property line, I don't think the right to an opinion is exclusive to those people.
People have sincere disagreements over (re)development. I just want to know where all the SOBOT candidates stand.
Runner_Guy - I'm thinking specifically about 4th and Valley where the residents had tremendous input, and the residents, Village and Developer were all able to come together in what was a "win" for everybody. I thought that was a great example of how things should be done. From what I have been able to observe from afar, it seems that any recent development or proposals on Valley St.are going through the same kind of community building.
Valley St. may be unique because my impression is that the residents, and I guess it's really the Academy Heights Neighborhood Association, are constructive and not against development pe se, but just want it done in a manner that they consider improves the area, or at least is done in the best way possible to alleviate any of their concerns.
eta - I think it was 4th and Valley - it may have been another site. It's the development that was reduced from the 200 units which the developer originally wanted to 100 units.
I checked-back and it was 4th and Valley:
"Public forums for development projects don’t often go like this.
“This is the ideal of what a public process should be like,” said Academy Heights neighbor Andrew Kitt at a public forum discussing changes to a proposed 106-unit development on the Southwest corner of 4th and Valley in South Orange on Wednesday night. “I could not be more satisfied with the outcome.”
Kitt’s comment came at the end of the meeting and after more than two dozen meetings over two years in which Village officials and neighbors worked with Meridia Capodagli Property, the proposed redeveloper, to shape the project into something that residents felt improved the area and dealt with or acknowledged potential issues regarding parking and traffic."
Throwing neighbors the input bone often occurs after developers are well on their way to accessing the property. The issue is that there are often no impact studies ( traffic being a big one) in a very dense part of town where it seems like every empty parcel of land is being targeted.
Runner_Guy - In general, I agree with you about the need for development. My No. 1 issue is taxes and I will want to know from all candidates their views about development, and how they propose to keep the tax burden down without having to decrease services or neglecting our infrastructure without developments - preferably, without PILOTs, but if PILOTs are necessary, the largest possible PILOT amount allowed for under the state statutes governing PILOTs.
PILOTs are difficult to understand and I really wish there could be another town hall like we had in 2006 where John Gross, the Village Administrator at the time, explained how PILOTs work and why they can be beneficial to South Orange taxpayers. Even people who were skeptical before the meeting (like me) were satisfied after the explanation.
Morganna said:
If your house is lit up the like Soprano compound
Our neighbors have something like this. We had to install blackout shades along the back of the house because the effect was something like having a spot light aimed through your windows 24/7. Honestly, I just don't get it. Night is supposed to be dark and day is supposed to be light. Perhaps this is the effect of so many generations growing up in the constantly illuminated asphalt of the city that they have forgotten how circadian rhythms are supposed to work? I grew up in a rural area where we were not afraid to sleep in the dark.
Lovesagoodsale said:
As far as the plan to merge firefighters is concerned, when two towns merge forces, there are cuts. Also, there are different ways of seeing things and no one way is right to everyone. That’s actually why we vote! We, in SO, have full-time firefighters I believe and I believe Maplewood has a mix of full time and part time. Maplewood also has many more residents than South Orange so by merging towns, we lose some voting power over these public services.
I always wonder about the idea of cutting even a single firefighter in a town full of historic homes, many without electrical upgrades. I guess we all just hope for the best and try to have the best public services available. I think we have that with our own public services and I worry that a merger would not give us any better service, would cost the same (taxes never go down!) and we dilute our power to make decisions about going forward by merging.
Our taxes are high for many reasons. Cutting or merging our local services would be voting against our best interests IMO. If the towns want shared services, then merge the towns. Otherwise, keep our well-trained and highly responsive police, firefighters and DPW depts in tact.
Our potholes get filled faster than Maplewood’s. Our firehouse is filled with people who are willing to run into our burning homes to save our lives and property. I’m willing to stand up and thank them and help them keep their jobs. They are great public servants and I’d like to look out for myself and my neighbors by keeping them all working here, for us.
Merge the town office locations. Maybe we can save some rent money.
Have you read the report linked above? There is no plan to reduce staff, firehouses, or equipment as part of the proposal to combine the two fire departments.
joan_crystal said:
Have you read the report linked above? There is no plan to reduce staff, firehouses, or equipment as part of the proposal to combine the two fire departments.
Joan, don’t waste your breath, she has it all figured out without reading, I’m sure
Klinker said:Morganna said:Our neighbors have something like this. We had to install blackout shades along the back of the house because the effect was something like having a spot light aimed through your windows 24/7. Honestly, I just don't get it. Night is supposed to be dark and day is supposed to be light. Perhaps this is the effect of so many generations growing up in the constantly illuminated asphalt of the city that they have forgotten how circadian rhythms are supposed to work? I grew up in a rural area where we were not afraid to sleep in the dark.
If your house is lit up the like Soprano compound
There's a large middle ground between 24/7 prison lighting and total darkness. Why don't people leave their porch lights on until 10pm or so? I stopped doing swap pickups after dark because it was too hard to find houses, which becomes a chore when it's dark at 5:30.
In your rural area, I'll bet there weren't a lot of people walking home from the train down your street after dark in the snow in February.
kthnry said:
There's a large middle ground between 24/7 prison lighting and total darkness. Why don't people leave their porch lights on until 10pm or so? I stopped doing swap pickups after dark because it was too hard to find houses, which becomes a chore when it's dark at 5:30.
In your rural area, I'll bet there weren't a lot of people walking home from the train down your street after dark in the snow in February.
Absolutely. I've got my lights on a timer. They turn off at 10:15 pm and on at 5:45 am (no lights in the back).
ETA: I turn them off in the daytime.
annielou said:
The problem with many YIMBY’s is that they reside in areas that are unaffected by development. They tend not to live in the already dense parts of the village and potentially having some five story building overlooking their property.
This YIMBY lives on a busy thoroughfare with my immediate neighbors being Anthony's Landscaping and South Orange Disposal. I'm willing to put up with the noise, smells, and traffic because (1) I believe in the importance of increased density, (2) I appreciate the benefits of being close to town, and (3) I could afford it. I can't speak for Runner_Guy (my fellow MOL YIMBY) but YIMBYs I know in other cities feel the same way and practice their beliefs.
I've become more passionate about it in recent years after attending zoning board hearings and listening to lame reasons for objecting to projects. ("It will block the afternoon sunlight through my stained glass window!")
In the meantime, our young adult children can't even begin to afford to live in our neighborhoods or anywhere decent in the NYC area. A lot of us in our wealthy towns are in a position to help our kids, but where does that leave young people who don't have family support? Living in death traps like the Ghost Ship or crushed by housing expenses, unable to afford children of their own.
What kind of world are we creating, where we fight to maintain our privilege at the cost of the next generation? And with our declining birth rate, who is going to pay into Social Security to support us when we're old and unable to work? Will Medicaid still be able to pay for my nursing home if/when I need it and all my money is gone? These are legitimate concerns.
kthnry said:
This YIMBY lives on a busy thoroughfare with my immediate neighbors being Anthony's Landscaping and South Orange Disposal. I'm willing to put up with the noise, smells, and traffic because (1) I believe in the importance of increased density, (2) I appreciate the benefits of being close to town, and (3) I could afford it. I can't speak for Runner_Guy (my fellow MOL YIMBY) but YIMBYs I know in other cities feel the same way and practice their beliefs.
I've become more passionate about it in recent years after attending zoning board hearings and listening to lame reasons for objecting to projects. ("It will block the afternoon sunlight through my stained glass window!")
In the meantime, our young adult children can't even begin to afford to live in our neighborhoods or anywhere decent in the NYC area. A lot of us in our wealthy towns are in a position to help our kids, but where does that leave young people who don't have family support? Living in death traps like the Ghost Ship or crushed by housing expenses, unable to afford children of their own.
What kind of world are we creating, where we fight to maintain our privilege at the cost of the next generation? And with our declining birth rate, who is going to pay into Social Security to support us when we're old and unable to work? Will Medicaid still be able to pay for my nursing home if/when I need it and all my money is gone? These are legitimate concerns.
Maintaining what privilege? Personally we have one foot out of here due to oppressive taxation, and no affordable housing options here in town.
Klinker said:
Morganna said:Our neighbors have something like this. We had to install blackout shades along the back of the house because the effect was something like having a spot light aimed through your windows 24/7. Honestly, I just don't get it. Night is supposed to be dark and day is supposed to be light. Perhaps this is the effect of so many generations growing up in the constantly illuminated asphalt of the city that they have forgotten how circadian rhythms are supposed to work? I grew up in a rural area where we were not afraid to sleep in the dark.
If your house is lit up the like Soprano compound
Some South Orange properties are on large parcels and some back up to wooded areas or on steep hills so neighbors may not be bothered by lighting but burglars may be deterred. There were break ins not long ago in local towns where families were being robbed while they slept. I've done my share of jury service, including grand jury service. Its an eye opener.
Admittedly I did not grown up in a rural area but In NYC and worked nights for years so I'll concede that my circadian rhythm is pretty shot to hell.
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Pretty cool having actual contested elections, unlike you guys in MW, eh?
Will MFABSO be issuing any endorsements?