South Orange BOT election

If people want to merge services, merge the towns. Keep your voting power!

Have you read the Manitou report? 

There was a vote on the BOT to accept the findings of the report and establish a working group to determine the best way to implement a merger. 

DDF only announced that she was not in favor of the proposed merger just before she announced her candidacy so that she could say that she did not always vote with Sheena - she had to find something. 

Lovesagoodsale said:
If people want to merge services, merge the towns. Keep your voting power!

We tried to merge the towns in 2006 - there was a non-binding referendum. SO voted in favor, Maplewood voted against. 

btw - Sheena is a strong advocate for merging the two towns.  

eta - The 2006 vote was whether to do a study about a merger.   

I say merge the towns meaning vote on it before we cut all our own services, Cramer. Past votes are nice but they mean nothing in this context. I understand there was a plan to merge the police departments and that didn’t happen and I’m glad. We have great police here and I’d like to keep them. Same for firefighters. I pay taxes to South Orange and am satisfied with the services as they are. If there is a push to develop and it seems there is, I’m even more in favor of keeping our current services local. That’s my point. Ms Davis Ford says she is not in favor of merging the fire departments now and I am supportive of that so she’ll get my vote. I’m glad she’s running. I don’t pay taxes to SOMA and I do notice the towns share the schools. I have no kids in these schools but there does seem to be something going on there. It doesn’t seem to be working so well.  They are paying people for not working and we have a board member who said something to a police officer that would likely get a student expelled but she is untouchable on the board. So no, I’ll keep the services of South Orange the way they are, thank you. Our services are top notice. Shared services, still waiting to see things resolved but our schools do seem to have a lot of messy stuff. (I’m an outsider because of no kids but hey, if that’s how shared services work, I’ll pass.)

cramer said:

Lovesagoodsale said:
If people want to merge services, merge the towns. Keep your voting power!

We tried to merge the towns in 2006 - there was a non-binding referendum. SO voted in favor, Maplewood voted against. 
btw - Sheena is a strong advocate for merging the two towns.  
eta - The 2006 vote was whether to do a study about a merger.   

 I share your interest in lowering our insane property taxes. Would the merger help? If so I'm in. I saw a great presentation by Rob Sandow on the property taxes in South Orange compared to Maplewood with a consideration to the amount of students in each town. Would that change?

If merging any departments help to lower taxes, I'm in.

With a cap on SALT deductions we need to do something or we will scare off future buyers and that will lower our property values. When I was active in real estate, one of the points that I used to calm potential buyers about our property taxes was to suggest that they were deductible. Far more important than pointing to our events calendar.

Klinker said:

Lovesagoodsale said:It could be the case that many people agree with me but they wouldn’t bother to state it here because they don’t have the stomach for haters. 

 If there is anyone, anyone at all, here who agrees with Lovie, please come forward and be counted.  I promise you that I will report anyone "hating on you" to the moderators post haste.  Please come forward if you exist.  If, on the other hand, you do not exist, can we please put this tired canard to rest?

 Bueller?  Bueller?

Anyone??????

Check out the value of homes in SO and then do your calculations. There are many variables. Do you want to lower your taxes if you wind up voting against your best interests?  That’s a better question, IMO. And, the elephant in the room is: do you want a town president who may dole out politicals favors to people who commit infractions?  That’s what got me. On that video when the person who was speeding said they were gonna call Sheena. Nah. I don’t go for that kinda stuff. We have to admit our mistakes and be gracious about them. Politics is a dirty game, I tell you!

(Edited to change typo won’t to want.)

Lovesagoodsale said:
Check out the value of homes in SO and then do your calculations. There are many variables. Do you want to lower your taxes if you wind up voting against your best interests?  That’s a better question, IMO. And, the elephant in the room is: do you want a town president who may dole out politicals favors to people who commit infractions?  That’s what got me. On that video when the person who was speeding said they were gonna call Sheena. Nah. I don’t go for that kinda stuff. We have to admit our mistakes and be gracious about them. Politics is a dirty game, I tell you!


(Edited to change typo won’t to want.)

 I think it is clear to all here that you have a personal vendetta against Sheena that has nothing to do with policy or politics.  If Sheena is for something, you are against it and vice versa.

If you actually want to talk about real policy, talk about real policy but leave your personal obsessions out of it.

I’m all about standing up for what’s right, Klinker. My entire history proves it. What about you?  All this stuff is pertinent. Have a great day. 

Lovesagoodsale said:
I say merge the towns meaning vote on it before we cut all our own services, Cramer. Past votes are nice but they mean nothing in this context. I understand there was a plan to merge the police departments and that didn’t happen and I’m glad. We have great police here and I’d like to keep them. Same for firefighters. I pay taxes to South Orange and am satisfied with the services as they are. If there is a push to develop and it seems there is, I’m even more in favor of keeping our current services local. That’s my point. Ms Davis Ford says she is not in favor of merging the fire departments now and I am supportive of that so she’ll get my vote. I’m glad she’s running. I don’t pay taxes to SOMA and I do notice the towns share the schools. I have no kids in these schools but there does seem to be something going on there. It doesn’t seem to be working so well.  They are paying people for not working and we have a board member who said something to a police officer that would likely get a student expelled but she is untouchable on the board. So no, I’ll keep the services of South Orange the way they are, thank you. Our services are top notice. Shared services, still waiting to see things resolved but our schools do seem to have a lot of messy stuff. (I’m an outsider because of no kids but hey, if that’s how shared services work, I’ll pass.)

With respect to Shared Services, we ALREADY have Shared Services with Maplewood for the Municipal Court, Field Maintenance and Code Enforcement - all of which Deborah voted for.

There was never a plan to merge the Police Department.

I believe there was a plan to merge the police and it was abandoned. I could be wrong. That snazzy new court building has to be used for something so why not?  No more sharing. I like paying taxes to our town for our services. It’s worth it. It keeps the value up!  They’re great!  There must be another way!

There was never a plan to merge the police departments. In 2016, Sheena announced that a new 12-hour schedule had been agreed to by the PBA. 

"A new 12-hour schedule for South Orange Police will save the department and town money and — more importantly — will increase public safety, according to Village President Sheena Collum.

At the August 22 South Orange Board of Trustees meeting, Collum announced that, after years of negotiations and work, the township and the two police unions (PBA Local 12 and the Superior Officers Association) had struck an agreement moving police from 10-hour-and-40-minute shifts to 12-hour shifts.

Collum said the impetus for the shift in shifts came out of a 2011 police best practices study commissioned by the Board of Trustees and conducted by the International City/County Management Association that suggested “looking at the inefficiency of the schedule.” The 10-hour-40-minute shifts were leading to massive overtime, said Collum — around a half million dollars annually in recent years. In addition, the schedule also had the largest capacity of the force working at times when “calls for services were not very high,” said Collum, for example, at 2 p.m. instead of later at night when car break-ins and other crimes are taking place.

https://villagegreennj.com/towns/collum-new-south-orange-police-schedule-reduce-crime-save-money/

This was a gigantic accomplishment. 

Schools (a shared service ) are the largest cost driver to our taxes.  If the state was to properly fund our schools thru sales tax, lottery, etc, then our property taxes would be a lot lower.   And revisiting the Abbott school districts and taking out those that no longer need to be receiving extra money from the state and redistribute to the towns that really need the funds.  Seriously, how is it possible that Jersey City and Hoboken are still on the list of abbott school districts (there are some other questionable ones but those two stand out ).   Clearly towns with minimal commercial properties have to put too much of the burden on the traditional residents.  

Plus we should end the tax exempt status for a large profitable university.  

We are talking real money and far more than we would ever get from sharing more services.  

mikescott said:
Plus we should end the tax exempt status for a large profitable university.  

In 2010, several of the college towns in NJ tried to get the legislature to change the law so as to allow the towns to charge a service fee for students. It was proposed to be $100 for full-time students and $50 for part-time students. It never got very far in the legislature. 

we should all write our state legislators -- and keep pushing to end the tax exempt status.  

mikescott said:
we should all write our state legislators -- and keep pushing to end the tax exempt status.  

Why?  I can understand that Seton Hall should pay for the municipal services they consume (police and fire), but why should they pay for other things.  Moreover, what is the benefit to SO of having college kids spending money in town.

Lovesagoodsale said:
Check out the value of homes in SO and then do your calculations. There are many variables. Do you want to lower your taxes if you wind up voting against your best interests?  That’s a better question, IMO. And, the elephant in the room is: do you want a town president who may dole out politicals favors to people who commit infractions?  That’s what got me. On that video when the person who was speeding said they were gonna call Sheena. Nah. I don’t go for that kinda stuff. We have to admit our mistakes and be gracious about them. Politics is a dirty game, I tell you!


(Edited to change typo won’t to want.)

 Sincerely, lowering my taxes is voting for my best interest. In an earlier post on this thread you said "Taxes don't go down ever." Well there is one way they go down, when people are forced to sell their homes at lower prices then their last appraised value. Aside from being a realtor for years, I bought my home at a time when the house was reduced to half of its original asking price which of course meant the property taxes had to be lowered since it had to be adjusted for the lower sales price.

Currently one of the largest homes in South Orange which is on my street was drastically reduced. That comp will effect the sale of other homes and a large part of the problem was the crazy tax bill. I worked in both a Montclair and a Short Hills real estate office and heard how towns were pitched to clients and I'm sure you can imagine how taxes were discussed.

All of that occurred before the loss of SALT deductions.

Downsizing  poses an interesting dilemma. High end homes are hit with rising property taxes and reduced tax benefits so they are harder to sell. But smaller homes are often not hit as hard and if they are among the rare homes with taxes under $10,000 they will be in demand. If like most Americans, a retiring person finds that the equity in their home is their biggest asset, that difference between the sell and the buy may be what they are planning to live on.

Lovesagoodsale said:
I believe there was a plan to merge the police and it was abandoned. I could be wrong. That snazzy new court building has to be used for something so why not?  No more sharing. I like paying taxes to our town for our services. It’s worth it. It keeps the value up!  They’re great!  There must be another way!

Maplewood share's its municipal court with South Orange.

tjohn said:

mikescott said:
we should all write our state legislators -- and keep pushing to end the tax exempt status.  

Why?  I can understand that Seton Hall should pay for the municipal services they consume (police and fire), but why should they pay for other things.  Moreover, what is the benefit to SO of having college kids spending money in town.

 There can be a compromise in how much but there needs to be a discussion first.  Start with the municipal portion (and I know they pay that for off campus property).  or the $100 per student fee,  but when a university represents a major piece of property in a small town, it is just unfair to the other residents of the town.  

mikescott said:

tjohn said:

mikescott said:
we should all write our state legislators -- and keep pushing to end the tax exempt status.  

Why?  I can understand that Seton Hall should pay for the municipal services they consume (police and fire), but why should they pay for other things.  Moreover, what is the benefit to SO of having college kids spending money in town.

 There can be a compromise in how much but there needs to be a discussion first.  Start with the municipal portion (and I know they pay that for off campus property).  or the $100 per student fee,  but when a university represents a major piece of property in a small town, it is just unfair to the other residents of the town.  

They are a not for profit organization.  They are tax exempt.  Having said that, there should be some way of calculating a charge for fire, police and other emergency services.  Maybe a per student fee is a good way.  I would defer to people who have researched the problem.

tjohn said:

mikescott said:

tjohn said:

mikescott said:
we should all write our state legislators -- and keep pushing to end the tax exempt status.  

Why?  I can understand that Seton Hall should pay for the municipal services they consume (police and fire), but why should they pay for other things.  Moreover, what is the benefit to SO of having college kids spending money in town.

 There can be a compromise in how much but there needs to be a discussion first.  Start with the municipal portion (and I know they pay that for off campus property).  or the $100 per student fee,  but when a university represents a major piece of property in a small town, it is just unfair to the other residents of the town.  

They are a not for profit organization.  They are tax exempt.  Having said that, there should be some way of calculating a charge for fire, police and other emergency services.  Maybe a per student fee is a good way.  I would defer to people who have researched the problem.

I don't know if a study has ever been done. Many years ago, even before the 2010 proposal, there had been a discussion of charging SHU a $50 service fee for each student. SHU has about 10,000 students so this would have brought in $500,000. Of course, not all of the 10,000 are on the main campus - there is the law school in Newark. 

In 2018, police salaries and wages were $6,520,000 and fire dept. salaries and wages were $3, 850,000 for a total of $10,370,000. I don't know what percentage of time/calls are made for SHU - I tried to get the number many years ago. Assume it's 5% - this would mean that $518,500 is for the benefit of SHU. A fee of $50 would do it. 

Heck - I'd even be happy with $25. Of course, since it's not going to happen, I might has well say $100. 

Morganna said:

Currently one of the largest homes in South Orange which is on my street was drastically reduced. That comp will effect the sale of other homes and a large part of the problem was the crazy tax bill. I worked in both a Montclair and a Short Hills real estate office and heard how towns were pitched to clients and I'm sure you can imagine how taxes were discussed.

It seems that house has been on the market for years. South Orange lore has it that when Marilyn Monroe was married to Arthur Miller, they used to go to parties at that house.  

cramer said:

Morganna said:

Currently one of the largest homes in South Orange which is on my street was drastically reduced. That comp will effect the sale of other homes and a large part of the problem was the crazy tax bill. I worked in both a Montclair and a Short Hills real estate office and heard how towns were pitched to clients and I'm sure you can imagine how taxes were discussed.

It seems that house has been on the market for years. South Orange lore has it that when Marilyn Monroe was married to Arthur Miller, they used to go to parties at that house.  

 It went on the market after Dr. Yee died. Yes I've heard the Marilyn story. Originally built by the Blanchard family. My house has the initials WLB in the stained glass windows. William L Blanchard, the son.

Morganna said:

cramer said:

Morganna said:

Currently one of the largest homes in South Orange which is on my street was drastically reduced. That comp will effect the sale of other homes and a large part of the problem was the crazy tax bill. I worked in both a Montclair and a Short Hills real estate office and heard how towns were pitched to clients and I'm sure you can imagine how taxes were discussed.

It seems that house has been on the market for years. South Orange lore has it that when Marilyn Monroe was married to Arthur Miller, they used to go to parties at that house.  

 It went on the market after Dr. Yee died. Yes I've heard the Marilyn story. Originally built by the Blanchard family. My house has the initials WLB in the stained glass windows. William L Blanchard, the son.

 Now I need to know what house this is!

Lovesagoodsale said:
And, the elephant in the room is: do you want a town president who may dole out politicals favors to people who commit infractions?  That’s what got me. On that video when the person who was speeding said they were gonna call Sheena. Nah. I don’t go for that kinda stuff. We have to admit our mistakes and be gracious about them. Politics is a dirty game, I tell you!

You're going to dredge up that non-scandal? Yawn. 

Cop was patient, I was irrational. Board member apologizes for 'skinhead' insult

Stephanie Lawson-Muhammad, a South Orange-Maplewood School Board member, can be heard in an April 27 dash cam video using profanity and arguing about having to go to court when she was ticketed by a South Orange police officer as she dropped off her kid at school.

"I had an irrational response to being stopped for a traffic violation. I allowed my emotions to overwhelm me that morning, and I fell short of the standards to which I hold myself," Lawson-Muhammad said in a statement. ...

In the video, obtained from police by NJ Advance Media, Lawson-Muhammad is heard telling the officer she will "call Sheena ... and your skinhead cop chief, too," apparently referencing South Orange Village President Sheena Collum and Chief Kroll. ...

In a statement posted on Facebook Thursday afternoon, Collum said Lawson-Muhammad never called her about the incident.

"I assure you that I have not nor will I use my position of influence to alter the outcome of any police operation," she said in the statement, a letter addressed to the South Orange community.

yes, I’m going to bring it up. It’s pertinent. 

Sheena also opined on what I said about my health on a forum where I was banned after looking it up. She is misinformed and smeared me on a forum where I couldn’t respond. Yes. I’m bringing this up because civility and ethics matter. 

Lovesagoodsale said:
yes, I’m going to bring it up. It’s pertinent. 

Why is it pertinent? Where is the slightest trace of proof that she has ever "doled out political favors" or otherwise abused her position? What was her mistake that she should have admitted to? 

Back to the topic of the election - Sheena posted on Facebook a question gauging opinions on moving the Municipal election to November.  I used to be opposed for fear of the influence of partisan politics on our non-partisan election, but since the BOE election has managed the move to November successfully, I now think it's a good idea and will increase voter engagement/turnout and will save money.

Thoughts?

Lovesagoodsale said:
0Sheena also opined on what I said about my health on a forum where I was banned after looking it up. She is misinformed and smeared me on a forum where I couldn’t respond. Yes. I’m bringing this up because civility and ethics matter. 

 Sheena was nothing but kind to you on that forum.  The only reason you couldn't return her kindness with more of your incessant bullying was because you were banned for violating the forum rules.

They even tried to give you a second chance and reinstate you but the moment you started posting you were off to the races with more inappropriate behavior.  

gee!  I wonder why she wants to change the date of the election. Anyone?  Is this the date it was always planned for?  Anything out of the ordinary with holding it in May?