SaveMillburn.com

Or:

The zoning, just the zoning.

and I would defend, to the end of the earth, anyone's right to join a shul - or any religious organization.. 100 freedom to worship is my stance. but gathering in residential areas is the issue!

It is just upsetting that we were told this was not a shul, and it clearly was and is, amongst quiet homes. And the lot is not 3 acres. And it is a variance zoning issue.

Maybe I fell into a trap set by broigus as he discussed the vans and asking strangers if they are Jewish. Yes, I fell right into that one that was cleverly set! I don't like asking people their religion on streets, but it is not against the law ... So, change in my stance on that. And I am not familar with mikvahs, true. But that is all sidetrack stuff to the legal issue at hand. And I wish there had not been dishonesty with the emergence of the shul from the the rabbi - there would be less of a problem/ trust issue on this particular building.

so back to the 3 acres and the fact we were told by the rabbi this is just friends praying and not a shul

Posted By: footballmomso back to the 3 acres and the fact we were told by the rabbi this is just friends praying and not a shul

Well back to the 3 acres. I believe that the settlement between the Rabbi and town means that any past issues between the two will not factor into future decisions. Basically it reset everything.

Posted By: broigusI agree the Millburn Ave. site would be better but he already went before the Board on that site and was rejected.

maybe the board should reconsider their decision?

broigus, you and your most clever trap-setting - jeesh!


:wink:

A Mikvah, from my understanding is a ritual bath. It has nothing to do with physical cleanliness, it has to do with the concept of spiritual cleanliness. One 'takes' a Mikvah (bath) before Bar Mitzvah's, upon adoption of a baby, being married, certain religious holidays, and after a women is finished menstruating. There is a female or male attendant depending on who is using the bath.

If they are using the house for a Mikvah, that is clearly illegal. A Mikvah must have zoning approval. In West Orange, many years ago, an illegal Mikvah was built on Pleasant Valley Way. When the town found out about it (through constant parking, a lot people in and out of a house on a regular basis, street being blocked by cars, and finally neighbors calling and complaining) the town shut it down UNTIL they complied with building ordinances, ie: electrical, fire codes, and now they would have to have handicap accessible entrances and exits, doorways and bathrooms.

For the uninformed: A Bar Mitzvah is for males,
Mikvah's are for females.

The level of discourse about Jews on this thread is repugnant and frankly disgraceful.

Posted By: stateguyFor the uninformed: A Bar Mitzvah is for males,
Mikvah's are for females.

The level of discourse about Jews on this thread is repugnant and frankly disgraceful.

There are occasions when males go to the mikvah.

I'm not sure how pertinent this point is but about a year ago the Millburn Zoning Board approved one or more variances that allowed the Wyoming Presbyterian Church in Millburn to build an addition. It is my understanding that some of the neighbors were not in favor of granting the variances.
Wyoming Presbyterian does not sit on 3 acres. I realize that the variances were given for an existing church not a new one, but still it seems to me an argument in favor of the rabbi.

Posted By: stateguyFor the uninformed: A Bar Mitzvah is for males,
Mikvah's are for females.

The level of discourse about Jews on this thread is repugnant and frankly disgraceful.

Many men use the Mikvah, upon becoming a Bar Mitzvah, conversion, before a Marriage Ceremony, before certain Jewish Holidays and some weekly before the Sabbath, and like stated before, upon adotption. Anyone can take a ritual bath.

These are the latest reports and letters regarding the chai center issue in 'The Item':

http://www.northjersey.com/news/85381707_Rabbi_s_appearance_before_zoning_board_on_hold_.html

http://www.northjersey.com/news/85354657_Letter__Legal_actions_harass_worshippers.html

http://www.northjersey.com/news/85354647_Letter__synagogue_will_adversely_affect_neighborhood.html

http://www.northjersey.com/news/85354662_Letter__lawyer_s_comments_a_distraction_during_zoning_dispute.html

http://www.northjersey.com/news/85354642_Letter__Rabbi_s_zoning_requests_not_unreasonable.html


It still seems to me though, that there shouldn't be such a drastic change to a quiet, *established* residential neighborhood. Parking for 48 cars? How many congregants are likely to be attending this chai center - how many will be arriving by car, possibly minivans with half a dozen occupants? What about overflow parking?

Posted By: footballmomMaybe I fell into a trap set by broigus

Posted By: pdgbroigus, you and your most clever trap-setting - jeesh!

he should be ashamed of himself! let's make him sit in a corner!

The Chai Center will be heard before the Zoning Board of Adjustment, who will make their decision based on the facts presented. The meeting is scheduled for 7 PM, March 22, at the Hartshorn School. You will have an opportunity during the course of the hearing to ask questions of each witness, and also to voice an opinion in favor of/in opposition of the proposal. Anyone wishing to make a statement on the application must appear at the hearing and be sworn in prior to their statement. Letters of opposition are not considered in the application.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions regarding the application.

Eileen Davitt
Zoning Officer/Board Secretary

Township of Millburn
375 Millburn Avenue
Millburn, NJ 07041

Phone (973) 564-7752
Fax (973) 564-7468

I wonder why they won't accept letters of opposition? What is all this about being 'sworn in'?

My sister (in England) was notified a couple of years ago that the small (local authority owned and maintained) patch of land opposite her house - and adjacent to a rest home for elderly people - was going to have three houses built on it for social housing.

She and her neighbors got a petition together, along with a letter stating the reasons why they didn't want the houses built. They also contacted the local councillor for their district (whom she's never voted for lol!) and the local city newspaper and they had their photo taken and a report went into the newspaper.

The planning bid was turned down, based on residents' objections.

I will be overseas when the rescheduled meeting takes place, and it seems that I won't be able to write a letter to the zoning board as it won't be considered. It seems very odd to me that as a local resident my opinions/concerns will be disregarded?

Sounds like the body planning on developing the patch of land was the local equivalent of a municipal government. A local council isn't a court and can accept, and usually does, unsworn testimony.

The Board of Appeals is a legal body which is more or less equivalent of a court of law and can only take into account hard evidence and sworn testimony, or at least that is what I believe.

how can you demolish a historic home in this town? at least it most certainly looks historic. is it? It must be prewar, based on the architecture. What constitutes a historic home? The historic committee is usually such a stickler! why are they silent? you can't even pick your own windows for example. they have to pass the board, in order to fit with a historic home. Additions have to match, and you are usually dealing with complete fussbudgets. Demolish this historic landmark home? I just don't get it. Someone, please address this. Surely a realtor would know more. Someone who knows about this, please address. Is this beautiful old historic home a historic landmark in town? Why not? Who makes that decision, and whats the criterion? Shouldn't it be historic? Knock it down?- just bulldoze this beautiful old home & replace with a 16,000 square foot commercial building? Who will stop anyone else from bulldozing other beautiful homes in the area to convert to commercial institutions? What kind of example is this - to be followed by many others, of course! There will be temples, churches and mosques of every denomination purchasing larger homes in town to convert to public buildings. If this goes through, why not. Get ready for more from all other groups. Many groups will be attracted to Short Hills for obvious reasons and will then work hard at the local population to try to create a following, and will similarly trample upon zoning, and the people who live here. Save the house!

Its not located in the historic district.

Just for information and comparison sake - tax records show:

CONGREGATION B'NAI ISRAEL - 2.07 acres

WYOMING PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH - 2 properties adding up to about an acre

ST. STEPHEN'S EPISCOPAL CHURCH - .15 acre

MT. ZION A.M.E. CHURCH - .17 acre

ST. ROSE OF LIMA CATHOLIC CHURCH - 2 properties totaling about 6 acres

FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH - .58 acres

CHRIST CHURCH - multiple properties totaling about 5.5 acres

CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST - 5 acres

COMMUNITY CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH - 5.5 acres

CONGREGATION B'NAI JESHURUN - 5 acres

COVENANT PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH - .3 acres

Some of these may be clergy housing not an actual religious institution. I did not investigate every property. I just thought this might illuminate the debate some.

25 Records Found for District: 0712 MILBURN Data as of 04/08/09 Page: 1
Block Lot Qual Location Owner
More Info
102 10 66 SAGAMORE ROAD WYOMING PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH, USA
More Info
308 1 432 WYOMING AVENUE WYOMING PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH
More Info
401 5 155 MILLBURN AVENUE PARTNERSHIP FOR A DRUG FREE NJ
More Info
507 12 18 HARAN CIRCLE CONGREGATION B'NAI ISRAEL
More Info
606 22 160 MILLBURN AVENUE CONGREGATION B'NAI ISRAEL
More Info
802 4 12 TAYLOR STREET NEIGHBORHOOD ASSN. OF MILLBURN
More Info
803 1 119 MAIN STREET ST. STEPHEN'S EPISCOPAL CHURCH
More Info
906 2 85 UNDERCLIFF ROAD UNITED JEWISH FEDERATION OF METRO W
More Info
906 26 200 MAIN STREET AMERICAN LEGION POST 140
More Info
1102 8 132 SPRING STREET FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH
More Info
1103 7 54 CHURCH STREET MT. ZION A.M.E. CHURCH
More Info
1208 2 437 MILLBURN AVENUE CHAI CENTER FOR LIVING JUDAISM
More Info
1709 4 61 SHORT HILLS AVENUE ST. ROSE OF LIMA CATHOLIC CHURCH
More Info
1712 23 52 SHORT HILLS AVENUE ST. ROSE OF LIMA CATHOLIC CHURCH
More Info
2205 13 65 HIGHLAND AVENUE CHRIST CHURCH
More Info
2206 1 66 HIGHLAND AVENUE CHRIST CHURCH
More Info
2210 7 60 HIGHLAND AVENUE CHRIST CHURCH
More Info
3410 2 9 NORTH ROAD CHRIST CHURCH,THE RECTOR,WARDENS &
More Info
3605 30 140 WHITE OAK RIDGE ROAD CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST % TAX DIV.
More Info
3803 34 200 HARTSHORN DRIVE COMMUNITY CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH
More Info
4407 19.E 1025 SOUTH ORANGE AVENUE CONGREGATION B'NAI JESHURUN
More Info
4901 2 291 PARSONAGE HILL ROAD COVENANT PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH
More Info
5203 2 79 ADDISON DRIVE COMMUNITY CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH

maybe there are other historic, significant worthy homes needing protection outside of this so-called district! Wow, way to rollover and lose the fight! Why not figure it out, savemillburn.

There has been wide debate about historic homes outside of the historic district. But many have been torn down and homeowners do not like to see their rights in those areas abridged. All I am saying is that from an historic home perspective there is no restriction and nothing the town can do. So it is not a productive avenue to pursue as it is a sure loser.

.

Posted By: footballmomCan I buy it and knock it down too

Yes you can. In fact a few years ago one of the oldest White Oak Ridge Road farm houses was torn down. There was quite a to do and attempts to convince the owner not to do so but to no avail. At the end of the day there was no way for the town to prevent it.

You can not just say a house is protected because you want it to be. Only in those areas that the town has designated by statute as historic (the heart of old Short Hills and parts of Wyoming) have special protection on what can be done to existing structures.

what is stopping the historic committee from protecting homes. they have to take action

broigus - you say there is nothing one can do so dont even try. People can take action and do A LOT. It's like you want to sweep my ideas away quickly - I hope savemillburn is listening

footballmom -

Wow, you have a LOT of unanswered questions! You clearly are extremely interested in answers since you keep asking, however this public forum is not the place to get solid answers, even if people do chose to try to help you out.

Better resources to sate your curiousty are below (in addition to the contact info for the Zoning Officer that honeydo so helpfully posted above). Good luck and please share with us what you learn! :peace:


Millburn Building Department-

The Building Department is open Monday through Friday from 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Zoning information, construction permit application forms, inspection schedules, and related literature are available from the Building Department counter to assist in the filing of permit applications. The Building Department is located on the first floor of the Municipal Building, which is located at 375 Millburn Avenue, Millburn, New Jersey. Phone: 973-564-7055 http://twp.millburn.nj.us/Building


From the Village "Master Plan" found at http://twp.millburn.nj.us/Master-Plan

"Beginning in 1977, the Millburn-Short Hills Historical Society ("Society") conducted a survey ("Society's Survey") of the architectural and historical resources of the township. The cost was mainly covered by a grant from the U.S. Heritage Conservation and Recreation Service via the Office of Historic Preservation of the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection. The grant was matched with volunteer time and donations to a value of about three to one.

The Society hired David Gibson Associates an architectural firm with an established background in historic preservation and at that time associated with The New Jersey Institute of Technology. The Society's Survey began with a visual overview of the township. Several hundred sites and two districts, which met the criteria in effect at the time, were identified as worthy of nomination to the State and Nationa l Registers because of their architectural and historical importance. The two districts so identified include most of the original acreage of the two planned 19th- century communities in Millburn Township: Short Hills Park and Wyoming. Dating of structures was done by studying maps dated 1859, 1879, 1881, 1890, 1907, 1922 and 1928. Except for the two districts and the Brantwood section, no structures built after the early 1920s were included in the Society's Survey. "

"In early 1980, both districts were listed in the State Register of Historic Places. In 1980, Short Hills Park was entered in the National Register of Historic Places. That year. the Planning Board listed both districts in the Master Plan and 76 sites, one hundred years or older, that were not included in the two districts."


The website for the Millburn/Short HIlls Historical Society - http://www.mshhistsoc.org

Any specific questions or criticisms of the savemillurn.com group could likely be entertained by going to their website.


I hope you find the answers you are looking for now!:flowers:

By township ordinance the remit of the historic committee only extends to the two districts in town that have been designated as historic. So until and unless the township changes the ordinance (which has been suggested from time to time but always generates a lot of opposition because people do not want to be included in any historic designation so all such attempts have failed) the historic commission has no ability to take any action. There is literally nothing they can do.

broigus means don't pursue the historic angle and I agree. It's a wast of time. How does a building get designated historic? I doubt it can happen if the current owners don't want it to happen. You can't just tell a home owner that wants to do a renovation on a non-historic home "Sorry - it's historic now. You have to play by our rules."

The only fight worth fighting is about zoning. Spend your time and energy on that.

why not do both

These things are in flux, and ordinances can be changed.
broigus would rather we not pursue it ... but he has been defending the shul