sac's SUV-buying saga - finally complete!
sac said:
Another one that doesn't say whether the seats fold flat (nor give dimensions of the cargo area other than cubic feet) ... but I shall add it to the list.peteglider said:
Jetta wagon- stick gas or diesel!
They fold flat but it isn't as big as you want. It's a great, great car, though.
I have a friend who got an standard Subaru Outback. They had to hunt around for dealers and she ended up with a different color than her original choice but she was happy. . . until the clutch went out at about 50k miles. They don't make 'em like they used to.
My opinion is that AWD (and 4WD) are overrated. A good FWD car with good tires can beat a mediocre AWD car with average tires. I had three Saabs, all FWD, and they were fantastic in snow.
I would also warn you against buying a car that handles all conceivable situations. How often do you take a loaded vacation trip of great distance with unusually rough roads? Once or twice a year? Rent a vehicle for that. If your car can handle every situation, you probably paid too much for it.
Height is another factor into fuel economy, so try short cars (station wagons, hatchbacks, sedans) before tall cars (minivans, SUV's, crossovers).
I had a Subaru with a manual transmission. It was pretty lousy. The clutch had a very tricky feel, and fifth gear was lower than top gear in the automatic version. I think they made it for the few weirdos who like manual transmissions but didn't put a lot of work into it. I'd rather have a good automatic than a lousy manual, though that's merely theory. I've never had an automatic.
I would also warn you against buying a car that handles all conceivable situations. How often do you take a loaded vacation trip of great distance with unusually rough roads? Once or twice a year? Rent a vehicle for that. If your car can handle every situation, you probably paid too much for it.
Height is another factor into fuel economy, so try short cars (station wagons, hatchbacks, sedans) before tall cars (minivans, SUV's, crossovers).
I had a Subaru with a manual transmission. It was pretty lousy. The clutch had a very tricky feel, and fifth gear was lower than top gear in the automatic version. I think they made it for the few weirdos who like manual transmissions but didn't put a lot of work into it. I'd rather have a good automatic than a lousy manual, though that's merely theory. I've never had an automatic.
We're looking seriously at a Subaru Forester (2009 or 2010), downsizing from a monster minivan. Anyone have a Forester? Any opinions or things to look out for? I noticed the ride isn't as smooth as our T&C, but assume that anything in our price-range (under $20K) is going to be less comfy.
I'm on the fence about the Outback. Seems like you're so low and at least the Forester has some height. We would LOVE a stick-shift, but our requirement is to fit a fifth person on occasion. The Mitsubishi Highlander looked really promising until we saw the second row was bucket seats! CR-Vs are very popular, it seems, but may be out of our price range. Also we really would prefer the AWD for the snowy weather I'm sure we'll eventually get. Had a Subaru GT Wagon we loved years ago...
NG
I'm on the fence about the Outback. Seems like you're so low and at least the Forester has some height. We would LOVE a stick-shift, but our requirement is to fit a fifth person on occasion. The Mitsubishi Highlander looked really promising until we saw the second row was bucket seats! CR-Vs are very popular, it seems, but may be out of our price range. Also we really would prefer the AWD for the snowy weather I'm sure we'll eventually get. Had a Subaru GT Wagon we loved years ago...
NG
@sac - Have you looked on edmunds.com? It's a treasure trove of detailed information about pretty much any make/model of car you can imagine, in every trim level, new and used. It would very likely (I haven't specifically looked for this so I am not certain) include cargo space measurements.
I relied on Edmunds for my last two car purchases, and, armed with some excellent information, got good deals on each.
Side note: I've never owned an SUV, but as of late, have had some SUV lust. Started poking around for some info on the RAV4, and have been underwhelmed by what I've read about the 2012 models. Am looking forward to seeing what Edmunds, Consumer Reports, et al are saying about the 2013. Have recently been driving a Highlander (not mine) and enjoy being up a little higher. I'd consider a pre-owned Highlander, among other options.
I relied on Edmunds for my last two car purchases, and, armed with some excellent information, got good deals on each.
Side note: I've never owned an SUV, but as of late, have had some SUV lust. Started poking around for some info on the RAV4, and have been underwhelmed by what I've read about the 2012 models. Am looking forward to seeing what Edmunds, Consumer Reports, et al are saying about the 2013. Have recently been driving a Highlander (not mine) and enjoy being up a little higher. I'd consider a pre-owned Highlander, among other options.
Aug 27, 2012 at 1:06am Edited
Tom - The trailer hitch requirement (for the bike rack) knocks us out of renting. I checked around for an upcoming trip (now cancelled for other reasons) and none of the car rental companies I contacted have hitches on their vehicles. (I guess they don't want them used for towing.)
Also, we would keep this vehicle for a long time and not waste it on everyday driving. (We'll still have at least one of the Hondas.) Also we are looking at (semi-)retirement with more traveling hopefully in the next few years plus weekend excursions, etc.
Some people go for an RV at this stage, but I'm not going there, at least not yet. (Maybe someday they'll make a hybrid RV and then we could tow a small jeep or something with it for the back roads, but that isn't in our near-term cards.)
Also, we would keep this vehicle for a long time and not waste it on everyday driving. (We'll still have at least one of the Hondas.) Also we are looking at (semi-)retirement with more traveling hopefully in the next few years plus weekend excursions, etc.
Some people go for an RV at this stage, but I'm not going there, at least not yet. (Maybe someday they'll make a hybrid RV and then we could tow a small jeep or something with it for the back roads, but that isn't in our near-term cards.)
Oh cool! Good luck with semi-retirement. It sounds nice. An interesting story is emerging.
@NizhoniGrrrl - we have 2 Foresters. A 2002 and a 2009 both bought new.
We love them - the 2009 has more space and can fit 5 adults - so long as the 5th one is petite.
The handling is great. Pick up is ok - its 4 cycl.
We bought at Liberty Subaru.
We love them - the 2009 has more space and can fit 5 adults - so long as the 5th one is petite.
The handling is great. Pick up is ok - its 4 cycl.
We bought at Liberty Subaru.
It will be an evolution. I'm not sure either of us will "ever" stop working completely but we are trying to increase our time off and opportunity to travel while we are young and healthy enough to do it. (Learning some lessons from our parents on this topic.)Tom_Reingold said:
Oh cool! Good luck with semi-retirement. It sounds nice. An interesting story is emerging.
Foresters/Outbacks appear to have many great features, but I'm not sure they really have the clearance we are hoping for. We'll certainly check them out (tape measure in hand) though.
Don't know about ground clearance, but the Dodge Journey does have three rows, available AWD, and is supposed to be the best mileage crossover.
We have an 03 Outback and the clearance on that thing is deceivingly good (and, I believe, officially deemed suitable for offroad); we used it on very bumpy dirt roads and trails without any issues. Now have a Mazda CX-9 which we LOVE.=, might be bigger than you need though. Haven't taken it anywhere particularly bumpy yet, but found this via Google:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/comparisons/last-crossover-standing-we-take-7-new-models-off-road-mazda-cx-9-grand-touring#slide-7
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/comparisons/last-crossover-standing-we-take-7-new-models-off-road-mazda-cx-9-grand-touring#slide-7
I found the following, but it is only available to subscribers: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/suvs/index.htm
Re off-road, I mean non-paved roads that may have signs that say 4WD required but are actual roads. i.e. The first photo above (and MAYBE the third one, but I can't tell for sure) might qualify, but definitely not the others and not much of the kind of ruggedness shown in the third photo.
The thing with the Highlander Hybrid is, that the rear wheels are not driven through a trans-axle by the main engine, but are only driven by an electric motor. For on the road driving this makes sense, since it saves a lot of weight and still gives the advantages of all wheel drive during snow. Although, if you go to some of the Toyota forums, opinions on how good this works are pretty divided.
It should also be plenty good for pic 1 and maybe an easy version of pic 3.
We looked for a similar vehicle as you are. Needed a bit more space, due to kids and dog, but wanted AWD since we are going skiing quite often and had actually gotten in pretty dicey situations in a front wheel drive car WITH Blizzaks (snow tires). Eventually we traded the ground clearance for space and went with a Sienna AWD. Honda Pilot would have been the more ground clearance, less interior space alternative for us.
Out of all the non hybrid full size SUV's it had the best gas mileage at the time (a year ago). The Sienna has the same listed gas mileage, but so much more interior space.
If you can give up on the 6 adults requirement and live with a max of 5, the Subaru Outback is probably your best bet. The current model is pretty huge, and has ok gas mileage.
It will probably also be your only option for a stick, short of getting a pick up truck. That said, I've driven various old/beater Subarus with sticks and they all had really messed up shifters and clutches. This might be better on newer models.
It should also be plenty good for pic 1 and maybe an easy version of pic 3.
We looked for a similar vehicle as you are. Needed a bit more space, due to kids and dog, but wanted AWD since we are going skiing quite often and had actually gotten in pretty dicey situations in a front wheel drive car WITH Blizzaks (snow tires). Eventually we traded the ground clearance for space and went with a Sienna AWD. Honda Pilot would have been the more ground clearance, less interior space alternative for us.
Out of all the non hybrid full size SUV's it had the best gas mileage at the time (a year ago). The Sienna has the same listed gas mileage, but so much more interior space.
If you can give up on the 6 adults requirement and live with a max of 5, the Subaru Outback is probably your best bet. The current model is pretty huge, and has ok gas mileage.
It will probably also be your only option for a stick, short of getting a pick up truck. That said, I've driven various old/beater Subarus with sticks and they all had really messed up shifters and clutches. This might be better on newer models.
In answer to the question re: Subaru Outbacks available with a stick: Yes.
Por ejemplo: http://www.subaruofdover.com/new/Subaru/2013-Subaru-Outback-Dover-e7e3a69d0a0a0065004d3abf6e0c23b1.htm
-s.
Por ejemplo: http://www.subaruofdover.com/new/Subaru/2013-Subaru-Outback-Dover-e7e3a69d0a0a0065004d3abf6e0c23b1.htm
-s.
sac said:
I found the following, but it is only available to subscribers: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/suvs/index.htm
ess said:
@sac - Have you looked on edmunds.com? It's a treasure trove of detailed information about pretty much any make/model of car you can imagine, in every trim level, new and used. It would very likely (I haven't specifically looked for this so I am not certain) include cargo space measurements.
....
Just saying.
I couldn't find the cargo space measurement in Edmunds but I may not have looked in the right place. I do have a CR subscription. I posted that link for others who might be interested as well as for my own future reference as I go through this process.
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