Proposal for Tuscan/Seth Boyden merger?
It might be one mile "as the crow flies", but it's a good bit more than that if you drive it. (I know from the discussions about who does or doesn't get the bus to SB. The line for getting the bus is near my home which is between SB and Tuscan.)LOST said:
beachbum said:
At the risk of starting a sh*t storm and possibly perpetuating an untrue rumor, I heard through a pretty reliable source that there may be a proposal on the table to merge Tuscan and Seth-Boyden into a Marshall/Jefferson model. Lower grades at one school, higher grades and the other. My guess is that the proposal is in response to over-crowding at Tuscan and fewer families opting in to Seth Boyden. Anyone else hearing about this? Thoughts?
I thought this was a VERY old thread since this was discussed and became the subject of intense controversy close to 20 years ago. It's part of why SB became a Demonstration School, and BTW,
Gundudad said:
I think the schools are too far apart to split the grades, rezoning, if necessary, seems an easier fix.
I measured the distance back then. 1 mile door-to-door
sprout said:
Google maps puts them at 1.1 miles apart.
FWIW: This is via a Harvard to Spgfld driving route.
Apr 6, 2015 at 10:38am Edited
sac said:
It might be one mile "as the crow flies", but it's a good bit more than that if you drive it. (I know from the discussions about who does or doesn't get the bus to SB. The line for getting the bus is near my home which is between SB and Tuscan.)LOST said:
beachbum said:
At the risk of starting a sh*t storm and possibly perpetuating an untrue rumor, I heard through a pretty reliable source that there may be a proposal on the table to merge Tuscan and Seth-Boyden into a Marshall/Jefferson model. Lower grades at one school, higher grades and the other. My guess is that the proposal is in response to over-crowding at Tuscan and fewer families opting in to Seth Boyden. Anyone else hearing about this? Thoughts?
I thought this was a VERY old thread since this was discussed and became the subject of intense controversy close to 20 years ago. It's part of why SB became a Demonstration School, and BTW,
Gundudad said:
I think the schools are too far apart to split the grades, rezoning, if necessary, seems an easier fix.
I measured the distance back then. 1 mile door-to-door
It's 1.05 miles in a car, front door to front door.
sac said:
Hmmmm - Interesting. Mapquest says 1.25 miles.
Mapquest probably sends you through Irvington
. 
Apr 6, 2015 at 10:59am Edited
Google maps does not turn at Prospect st -- but continues down Harvard
Tuscan family here - of course, we would make it work if need be though wouldn't be my preference. However, I really hope before taking such a drastic step and getting buses all involved, they strategize on ways to increase opt-ins for SB, according to the original plan. Parents love the place, wish the district was able to do more to sell the school.
Just to be clear, this is just one of several options they are looking at and in my opinion the one least likely to happen (at least anytime soon)
phyllis said:
Tuscan family here - of course, we would make it work if need be though wouldn't be my preference. However, I really hope before taking such a drastic step and getting buses all involved, they strategize on ways to increase opt-ins for SB, according to the original plan. Parents love the place, wish the district was able to do more to sell the school.
Agree with Phyllis. When we first moved here the SB option was well-publicized and new families were aware of the choices. My impression is that new families today are not as aware of SB as they used to be.
Maybe I'm just resistant to change, but I would be disappointed if there was a merger. We are in walking distance to Tuscan and I like the sense of school community. I like the fact that my daughter has had a sense of continuity from K-5. It's been nice for her to stay connected with adults that have known her since kindergarten. I worry that doubling the size of a grade would affect the sense of cohesion in grades small enough where most kids know each other. Also would wonder how teachers feel. Many of the grade teams at Tuscan seem pretty tight. I know people at Seth Boyden also love their school culture. I know there are no guarantees but I would be bummed.
Also mammabear, can you expound upon other options you have heard about? If not, do you know when this info will be made public?
There's been talk of just simply rezoning,as well as allowing kids who are zoned for SB to opt to other schools (in order to reduce the FRL numbers at SB and also simply because they are the only kids in the district who don't have an alternate school choice). There's also been talk of invigorating the SB mission and better communication from the district promoting SB to attract more opt in students, although numbers haven't decreased as much as originally thought but we get many Clinton students who opt in for convenience rather than mission. This however will not solve the Tuscan overcrowding issue. I don't think anything will happen for awhile because I doubt this is something a new super is going to want to tackle right away. So probably nothing before the 16-17 school year. Just my two cents
yahooyahoo said:
Tuscan is over-enrolled.
Another idea, if the district wants to keep SB as a demonstration school then why not combine Clinton and Tuscan?
Who would this be beneficial for? Tuscan or Seth Boyden?
I don't think they'd combine Tuscan and Clinton. It would make no sense. Plus the bussing costs would be enormous, almost everyone from both schools would need to be bussed. You'd be surprised how many kids wouldn't need to be bussed for an SB/Tuscan merger (although I still don't think it's going to happen)
Apr 6, 2015 at 5:17pm Edited
Hello.
Thank you for mentioning that! This is a 20 year old conversation? So, 20 years ago, the chosen soltution was to change SB to be a demonstration school, to bring "multiple intelligence learning" into the SOMA curriculum and to allow families to opt in to this revamped school?
Now, SB parents are stating that the focus on multiple intelligence seems to be hazy and outdated, the school is not being promoted well and there aren't enough students opting in. SB parents are circulating a petition, asking for resources:
https://fs22.formsite.com/sethboyden/form1/index.html?1428079262700
Although I do not like the idea myself, I can totally see the logic in the SB/Tuscan merger. But as a parent with two children close in age, I dislike the idea of having my kids in two different schools, two drop-offs, pickups, twice as much logistical effort.
What I would prefer would be for the school board to take a serious look at the current trends in education. To bring innovative ideas and teaching to Seth Boyden: STEM, the arts, even to revamp the approach to multiple intelligences. The teachers need to be trained and supported.
The spark of a 20 year old discussion faded and now we've come around the block to the same place? It seems to me that what really needs to happen is to re-ignite that spark of innovation in a school named after a brilliant inventor.
Additionally, I'd add that giving students zoned for SB the chance to opt into a different school seems like an act of fair play. But even more fair would be to give those neighborhood children a school they can be proud of, a school that gives all children a great education using innovative pedagogical techniques.
Why don't we spend our budget on training teachers, to provide a better education to our children, instead of spending money on busses and gas money?
SB is a great school. Principal Quiles is a tremendous leader. They have great teachers, a wonderful garden and playground. The community is great and the kids are a joy. I would be sad to see that diluted. What I would like to see is for it to be better supported, and I believe this will attract more opt-ins. Let's make it appealing, desirable - instead of forcing it on people. I think we can effect positive change and do so economically too.
LOST said:
I thought this was a VERY old thread since this was discussed and became the subject of intense controversy close to 20 years ago. It's part of why SB became a Demonstration School, and BTW,
Thank you for mentioning that! This is a 20 year old conversation? So, 20 years ago, the chosen soltution was to change SB to be a demonstration school, to bring "multiple intelligence learning" into the SOMA curriculum and to allow families to opt in to this revamped school?
Now, SB parents are stating that the focus on multiple intelligence seems to be hazy and outdated, the school is not being promoted well and there aren't enough students opting in. SB parents are circulating a petition, asking for resources:
https://fs22.formsite.com/sethboyden/form1/index.html?1428079262700
Although I do not like the idea myself, I can totally see the logic in the SB/Tuscan merger. But as a parent with two children close in age, I dislike the idea of having my kids in two different schools, two drop-offs, pickups, twice as much logistical effort.
What I would prefer would be for the school board to take a serious look at the current trends in education. To bring innovative ideas and teaching to Seth Boyden: STEM, the arts, even to revamp the approach to multiple intelligences. The teachers need to be trained and supported.
The spark of a 20 year old discussion faded and now we've come around the block to the same place? It seems to me that what really needs to happen is to re-ignite that spark of innovation in a school named after a brilliant inventor.
Additionally, I'd add that giving students zoned for SB the chance to opt into a different school seems like an act of fair play. But even more fair would be to give those neighborhood children a school they can be proud of, a school that gives all children a great education using innovative pedagogical techniques.
Why don't we spend our budget on training teachers, to provide a better education to our children, instead of spending money on busses and gas money?
SB is a great school. Principal Quiles is a tremendous leader. They have great teachers, a wonderful garden and playground. The community is great and the kids are a joy. I would be sad to see that diluted. What I would like to see is for it to be better supported, and I believe this will attract more opt-ins. Let's make it appealing, desirable - instead of forcing it on people. I think we can effect positive change and do so economically too.
Apr 6, 2015 at 5:41pm Edited
I have spoken to a number of preschooler parents (many of whom have only recently moved to town) who don't even know about Seth Boyden. When the demo program first started there was a LOT of publicity, parent meetings, etc. to talk it up. And it was very popular. In fact, I believe that there were some years that they were filled and had to close out opt-ins. (Note: siblings of opt-in students were always accepted, so families didn't get involuntarily split up between schools.)
So, #1 - there definitely should be an attempt at more publicity. And this certainly COULD help with Tuscan overcrowding if more Tuscan zone families voluntarily chose SB. Since the two zones are adjacent, the distances are not a huge issue for many in the Tuscan zone who live more or less equidistant between the two schools, some even closer to SB than to Tuscan. (Also DROP-OFF is much easier at SB because of the circle drive in front - parents don't have to get out of the car. While I don't think that is a good reason in and off itself to choose a school, I'm just putting it out there as it might ease concerns for some families concerned about morning logistics. I know that it doesn't help the 'walk to train' folks.)
So, #1 - there definitely should be an attempt at more publicity. And this certainly COULD help with Tuscan overcrowding if more Tuscan zone families voluntarily chose SB. Since the two zones are adjacent, the distances are not a huge issue for many in the Tuscan zone who live more or less equidistant between the two schools, some even closer to SB than to Tuscan. (Also DROP-OFF is much easier at SB because of the circle drive in front - parents don't have to get out of the car. While I don't think that is a good reason in and off itself to choose a school, I'm just putting it out there as it might ease concerns for some families concerned about morning logistics. I know that it doesn't help the 'walk to train' folks.)
Given that this is a 20 year old conversation, it's not surprising that it is dancing around some of the issues.
Both the Marshall/Jefferson Pairing and the Demonstration School were attempts to increase "racial balance" in the elementary schools, and, by proxy, increase the socio-economic balance that maintains a workable proportion of higher needs/less advantaged students so that the school can succeed.
This was then, and is still, controversial.
Those solutions worked to some degree for a while. But 20 years on, SB has experienced a sharp spike in the % of economically disadvantaged kids, and the "desirable" Tuscan school has become the whitest elementary school in the district.
Tuscan has reached or exceeded capacity, and is overcrowded, and, while SB has been able to absorb some of those students, it is also (like all the elementary schools right now) running fairly full, so this is not primarily a space issue, and while the racial balance *within* Seth Boyden has shifted a bit, the socio-economic change (increase in economically disadvantaged students) is much more pronounced.
Despite that, as @OhHenry noted above, SB is a very good school. Report Cards always need to be taken with a grain of salt, but SB outperforms nearly all of its demographic peers in the state. And it comes in at the higher end of average when compared to all schools in the state. Despite the increased challenges, and the questions about the demonstration model, Seth Boyden is a very successful school.
The goal is to keep it that way. Absent additional budget money (which we don't have) or additional parent resources (which have long been smaller compared to other district schools and are stretched as far as they will stretch), we need other ways to support the school and balance resources and needs.
A Tuscan/SB pairing could do that--reducing the higher needs load on SB, without overtaxing Tuscan, a strong and vibrant school.
There may be other options to consider, but whatever the options, it would make sense to keep a clear eye on the fundamental problems to be addressed.
Both the Marshall/Jefferson Pairing and the Demonstration School were attempts to increase "racial balance" in the elementary schools, and, by proxy, increase the socio-economic balance that maintains a workable proportion of higher needs/less advantaged students so that the school can succeed.
This was then, and is still, controversial.
Those solutions worked to some degree for a while. But 20 years on, SB has experienced a sharp spike in the % of economically disadvantaged kids, and the "desirable" Tuscan school has become the whitest elementary school in the district.
Tuscan has reached or exceeded capacity, and is overcrowded, and, while SB has been able to absorb some of those students, it is also (like all the elementary schools right now) running fairly full, so this is not primarily a space issue, and while the racial balance *within* Seth Boyden has shifted a bit, the socio-economic change (increase in economically disadvantaged students) is much more pronounced.
Despite that, as @OhHenry noted above, SB is a very good school. Report Cards always need to be taken with a grain of salt, but SB outperforms nearly all of its demographic peers in the state. And it comes in at the higher end of average when compared to all schools in the state. Despite the increased challenges, and the questions about the demonstration model, Seth Boyden is a very successful school.
The goal is to keep it that way. Absent additional budget money (which we don't have) or additional parent resources (which have long been smaller compared to other district schools and are stretched as far as they will stretch), we need other ways to support the school and balance resources and needs.
A Tuscan/SB pairing could do that--reducing the higher needs load on SB, without overtaxing Tuscan, a strong and vibrant school.
There may be other options to consider, but whatever the options, it would make sense to keep a clear eye on the fundamental problems to be addressed.
Apr 7, 2015 at 2:51am Edited
Honestly, I think that some good old fashioned promotion/communication of the Demo program to the entire community ... especially to families of current preschoolers AND (via the realtor network perhaps?) to those not yet here could be a good initial and not high cost approach. @mamabear posits that a major change is not likely for another year or two anyway, so why not make some stronger attempts to make the opt-in option draw more families?
Then, during that next year or two, they can look at other options to strengthen the 'draw' (STEM or Arts or whatever) or consider other non-opt-in alternatives.
The opt-in approach was the most palatable solution to overcrowding and racial imbalance 20 years ago and might still be, especially once the alternatives are better understood. (Anyone else remember the 'east-west stripe' rezoning proposal that was also on the table back then? Or the several different pairing options? SB Demo/Opt-in looked really good to the majority of us by comparison.)
Then, during that next year or two, they can look at other options to strengthen the 'draw' (STEM or Arts or whatever) or consider other non-opt-in alternatives.
The opt-in approach was the most palatable solution to overcrowding and racial imbalance 20 years ago and might still be, especially once the alternatives are better understood. (Anyone else remember the 'east-west stripe' rezoning proposal that was also on the table back then? Or the several different pairing options? SB Demo/Opt-in looked really good to the majority of us by comparison.)
I don't know the current opt-in numbers, but my sense is that the socio-economic shift is a post recession neighborhood effect--rather than a loss of opt in families. But it would be useful to look at those numbers. And remember, while there some room for more students at SB, it is running closer to full than not.
FWIW, I think the shift in the Tuscan demographics (smaller black and economically disadvantaged populations) is probably also a neighborhood effect driven both by the pre-crash housing boom, and post recession shifts.
FWIW, I think the shift in the Tuscan demographics (smaller black and economically disadvantaged populations) is probably also a neighborhood effect driven both by the pre-crash housing boom, and post recession shifts.
Also driven by 'desirable Tuscan Neighborhood' hype ... which makes me nuts. I live in the Tuscan zone and our neighborhood is pretty 'average' in the two towns in terms of the housing stock, neighborhood vibe, etc. That's because OVERALL these towns are just pretty darn 'desirable'. The realtors could help a lot by promoting all areas of town more equally and dropping that phrase (which sounds like 'code' to me) from their lexicon.
In an earlier post I mentioned conversations with preschooler parents who are mostly fairly new in town. Almost without exception, they had been 'sold' on the neighborhood in those terms and heard that very phrase from their realtors, and I know that I see it all over the realty listings.
In an earlier post I mentioned conversations with preschooler parents who are mostly fairly new in town. Almost without exception, they had been 'sold' on the neighborhood in those terms and heard that very phrase from their realtors, and I know that I see it all over the realty listings.
Forgive me if this is a dense question, but what is the real advantage of a pairing as opposed to a rezoning? What is the benefit? I agree that I like the idea of a community school. We're not zoned for either one so it isn't a personal issue for us. However, one reason I didn't opt my son into Seth Boyden is I wanted him to be in our "neighborhood" school. But, I do know plenty of folks in Marshall/Jefferson that are happy with the pairing.
TarheelsInNj said:
Forgive me if this is a dense question, but what is the real advantage of a pairing as opposed to a rezoning?
With a pairing, everyone goes to both places. No fights about where new school zone borders will get drawn.
TarheelsInNj said:
Forgive me if this is a dense question, but what is the real advantage of a pairing as opposed to a rezoning? What is the benefit? I agree that I like the idea of a community school. We're not zoned for either one so it isn't a personal issue for us. However, one reason I didn't opt my son into Seth Boyden is I wanted him to be in our "neighborhood" school. But, I do know plenty of folks in Marshall/Jefferson that are happy with the pairing.
As someone stated earlier in the thread, rezoning tends to bring out the worst in people. It pits neighbor against neighbor against the BOE in the battle over which homes get re-zoned and which do not.
Pairing the schools would also likely raise a real ruckus, but it's probably more palatable than re-drawing the maps with significant changes. It seems eminently reasonable to me (I have no horse in this race). However, I definitely agree with @sac and others who have said that there is really not enough PR about the demonstration school.
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