Open up America "AGAIN?"
mtierney said:
Short of becoming a police state, what do you suggest?
Do not dismiss the power of prayer — which means people reaching out for help, guidance, and succor.Some 38 million Americans are unemployed; education for our children, from kindergarten through college, has been derailed; and every day another business shuts down.
America and the rest of the world needs/has to get up and running —before the next wave hits in the fall.
"police state"? WTF?
I meant only that prayer won't have anything to do with whether or not Fauci is correct. It's science, not faith that will determine it. If people want to pray because it gives them comfort that's one thing. But we can't pray away the virus.
And the notion that states aren't already cautiously reopening certain aspects of "normal" life already is false.
mtierney said:
Let’s all pray Dr. Fauci is correct — major caveat is, of course, people obeying all the new normal restrictions.
It's useful to read what Dr. Fauci actually said.
Which is basically what he's been saying all along, about following the directions for safe practices.
drummerboy said:
speaking of prayer, what do you think about Trump trying to order all churches to re-open, even if local authorities think it's too soon?
Trump will be on a golf course before he's back in a church.
This is a genuinely religious viewpoint, from Fr. Jim Martin - Governors and religious leaders should follow the advice of public health experts and epidemiologists to prevent the spread of infection. Everyone wants to go back to church, including me, but not at the risk of increased infection and death, especially among the most vulnerable
Is a Pastor who opens a Church, invites all congregants and does not take necessary precautions such as social distancing and face masks equivalent to Jim Jones?
STANV said:
Is a Pastor who opens a Church, invites all congregants and does not take necessary precautions such as social distancing and face masks equivalent to Jim Jones?
No, there is a difference between knowingly putting people in harms way, and actually killing them.
STANV said:
Is a Pastor who opens a Church, invites all congregants and does not take necessary precautions such as social distancing and face masks equivalent to Jim Jones?
No, he's just seriously uninformed and/or a fool.
nohero said:
Trump will be on a golf course before he's back in a church.
And here we are - CNN photojournalist @abdallahcnn got a shot of President Trump golfing today. He says the president is moving around the course in a golf cart alone but is golfing with three partners. None of the men are wearing masks. pic.twitter.com/WXYS6zDPNd
In response to Trump's comment that he's opening houses of worship because "we need more prayer not less" he clearly doesn't understand the difference between prayer and ceremony. Anyone who ever had a grandmother who "said her beads", knows prayer can be private and without all the formality of incense and music.. One is a personal conversation with the God you believe in and the other is a public statement.
Hopefully the American people are not looking to DJT for spiritual guidance.
We are still seeing over 20k new Covid-19 cases in the US every day, which is disproportionally higher than the rest of the world. And that is after 2 months of lock down. I think we should be super careful about re-opening, and make sure we follow guidance from the experts, and not have these idiots force us into rushing things, or we will be right back where we were 2 months ago.
I think Trump is pretty transparently trying to gin up more culture war. He wants to be able to say that liberals are using COVID-19 as a plot to close churches and attack religion.
PVW said:
I think Trump is pretty transparently trying to gin up more culture war. He wants to be able to say that liberals are using COVID-19 as a plot to close churches and attack religion.
Agreed, he has his talking points borrowed from FOX. Changing channels I caught Tucker Carlson with similar phrasing, questioning a guest as to why liquor stores and abortion clinics are open, but churches are closed. He had that furrowed brow, earnest, rehearsed, puzzlement, that he relies on.
Trump came out with his statement a few days later.
I've added Tucker Carlson to my list of hosts that make me crazy. Hannity, Judge Janine and Laura Ingraham complete the square.
I don't know of any coronavirus cases traced back to a liquor store, but there's this:
In Germany, which for weeks now has allowed religious services, 40 churchgoers became infected with the coronavirus during a service at a Baptist church in Frankfurt, the health authorities said.
Six parishioners were hospitalized, according to Wladimir Pritzkau, a leader of the parish.
“We followed all the rules,” Mr. Pritzkau told the German news agency DPA, noting that the church did not know how many people were at the service on May 10.
being inside a building with other people for an hour or more is a lot different from spending five minutes in a liquor store or 15 minutes in a Home Depot.
Morganna said:
I caught Tucker Carlson with similar phrasing, questioning a guest as to why liquor stores and abortion clinics are open, but churches are closed. He had that furrowed brow, earnest, rehearsed, puzzlement, that he relies on.
One can pray at home. One cannot safely have an abortion at home or extend her pregnancy until such clinics can open.
As to liquor stores if we are going to open Synagogues we will need liquor stores open so we can make Kiddush.
The fact that Trump golfed yesterday, and is golfing again this morning, explains why he made a big stink about opening up churches.
ml1 said:
I don't know of any coronavirus cases traced back to a liquor store, but there's this:
In Germany, which for weeks now has allowed religious services, 40 churchgoers became infected with the coronavirus during a service at a Baptist church in Frankfurt, the health authorities said.
Six parishioners were hospitalized, according to Wladimir Pritzkau, a leader of the parish.
“We followed all the rules,” Mr. Pritzkau told the German news agency DPA, noting that the church did not know how many people were at the service on May 10.being inside a building with other people for an hour or more is a lot different from spending five minutes in a liquor store or 15 minutes in a Home Depot.
Liquor stores and grocery stores and Home Depots and Walmarts can be hazardous for the people who work there, especially when "I don't need no mask" knuckleheads want to shop there.
mtierney said:
Quarantine paranoia?
Nobody is saying, "We can't open the economy until November 3".
The cartoonist is pandering to the knuckleheads demanding that everything should be open now, and encouraging behavior that will put more people at risk.
I guess he has a First Amendment right to publish dangerous advice like that, but it's not something a responsible person would disseminate.
mtierney said:
Quarantine paranoia?
on the part of the cartoonist? yeah, definitely. Anyone who thinks we're locked down to influence the election has got to be paranoid on some level.
If both sides would just acknowledge what i think most on both sides actually believe - that opening the economy will be as someone said like turning a dial, not like flipping a switch - then we* could have productive discussions about what to open when and how, with what precautions, instead of just yelling back and forth over our respective barricades.
(sorry, i can't seem to display this short comic strip)
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2020/05/21
* Well, some on both sides, anyhow
mjc said:
If both sides would just acknowledge what i think most on both sides actually believe - that opening the economy will be as someone said like turning a dial, not like flipping a switch - then we* could have productive discussions about what to open when and how, with what precautions, instead of just yelling back and forth over our respective barricades.
(sorry, i can't seem to display this short comic strip)
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2020/05/21
* Well, some on both sides, anyhow
is there anyone out there yelling back at the "liberate!" people saying anything other than what you suggest -- how to open, when and with what precautions? I don't think there is a "side" yelling that we need to stay in strict lockdown indefinitely. As I see it, there is one side yelling (and some carrying guns) about "tyranny!" and "freedom!" and another side representing the vast majority saying that we should listen to the public health experts and open in the ways they suggest.
sometimes there aren't two sides yelling at each other. sometimes there is only one side yelling.
Trump believes his key to re-election is the Economy. I think he's wrong. If he had handled the health crises better it would have helped him more.
Big freakin' "Freedom Rally" tomorrow "down the shore". A good name for it could be "Knuckleheadstock".
Tri-State? They want people coming in from PA and NY?
I wonder what Murphy, Wolf and Cuomo say about it.
drummerboy said:
I thought tri-state was NY, NJ and CT.
It is in North Jersey.
May be different for Central Jersey*
* There is a long-standing debate on whether there *is* such a thing as "Central Jersey".
Stay south of L.B.I. and tri-state means New Jersey-Pennsylvania-Delaware.
It's my understanding that the Jersey Shore attracts people from NY and PA. Not sure about CT or DE.
Of course I have seen many Quebec License Plates in Cape May.
STANV said:
It's my understanding that the Jersey Shore attracts people from NY and PA. Not sure about CT or DE.
You can be sure now: South of L.B.I. (and even L.B.I., to a lesser extent) attracts First Staters.
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speaking of prayer, what do you think about Trump trying to order all churches to re-open, even if local authorities think it's too soon?