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DanDietrich said:
My argument for Judge is that his team would not make the playoffs without him. This is his career year.
It’s a good argument. And Judge’s 9.3 fWAR exceeds even Ohtani’s combined DH+P fWAR of 8.2. I still favor Ohtani.
DanDietrich said:
My argument for Judge is that his team would not make the playoffs without him. This is his career year.
it's a good argument. But there are media people completely dismissing Ohtani as an MVP candidate because his team stinks. While it's true the Angels could be terrible without him, imagine how bad they'd be if he wasn't on their team. He deserves consideration because he's doing things no one has ever done since Babe Ruth.
ml1 said:
it's a good argument. But there are media people completely dismissing Ohtani as an MVP candidate because his team stinks. While it's true the Angels could be terrible without him, imagine how bad they'd be if he wasn't on their team. He deserves consideration because he's doing things no one has ever done since Babe Ruth.
Reminds me of when Ralph Kiner was trying to get a raise and the Pirates' owner told him they came in last place with him and they can come in last place without him.
Judge is also playing a gold glove caliber outfield. That said I would vote for Ohtani. He's doing things that have never been done before.
Ohtani is very good, but being unique isn't necessarily the same as being the most valuable. As a hitter he isn't the MVP. As a pitcher he isn't the Cy Young.
Another argument for Judge: Win Probability Added, a measure of value in key game situations.
At the plate, Judge has been 6.65 wins better than average. At the plate and on the mound combined, Ohtani has been 4.52 wins better than average. (Both totals are excellent.)
ETA: I may be wavering.
Ohtani’s on track for 40 bombs, 90 runs, 100 ribs and 12 bags on an absolutely **** team.
Oh, and also 14 wins, 200 punchies, 2.50ish ERA (A.L.) hugging a 1.05 WHIP. yeah, old guy stats but they work.
Judge hits HRs, a good deal of them 320-380 footers to right field. I bleed pinstripes (other than my visceral disdain for Michael Kay and all he stands for) but (a) Ohtani is better and (b) giving this guy an 8 yr deal will cripple this club financially. Let him take the money and run I say.
BarneyGumble said:
Ohtani’s on track for 40 bombs, 90 runs, 100 ribs and 12 bags on an absolutely **** team.
Oh, and also 14 wins, 200 punchies, 2.50ish ERA (A.L.) hugging a 1.05 WHIP. yeah, old guy stats but they work.
Judge hits HRs, a good deal of them 320-380 footers to right field. I bleed pinstripes (other than my visceral disdain for Michael Kay and all he stands for) but (a) Ohtani is better and (b) giving this guy an 8 yr deal will cripple this club financially. Let him take the money and run I say.
He'll look good in blue and orange 
. It sounds like it might be black and orange though. He and Wilmer will be a solid 3-4 punch.
Train_of_Thought said:
Baseball is beautiful.
https://twitter.com/ShitBsbPlyrsSay/status/1569768130141896704?t=JerlKm-zFxHfzFPhuRM4Yg&s=19
plays on the bases are my favorite part of the game.
BarneyGumble said:
Judge hits HRs, a good deal of them 320-380 footers to right field.
Only 14 of Judge’s 55 home runs were hit to right field, and only 8 of those at Yankee Stadium. His home-away HR split is 29-26. His expected home run total, based on where balls he hit landed regardless of ballbark, is … 55. Sixty percent of his HRs would’ve left any ballpark, the top rate in the majors among hitters with at least 25 HRs.
As anyone who actually knows baseball is aware: You could look it up.
Here’s Judge’s HR spray chart, courtesy of Statcast. In all, 9 were shy of 380 feet, and 3 of those were 378. The shortest was 355.
Train_of_Thought said:
Baseball is beautiful.
Indeed it is. The extra split-second the right fielder took to grip the ball was obviously worth it, and when I looked at the catcher’s mitt tick by tick, it confirmed my admiration for the way he let the throw fly as deep as he could.
DaveSchmidt said:
Only 14 of Judge’s 55 home runs were hit to right field, and only 8 of those at Yankee Stadium. His home-away HR split is 29-26. His expected home run total, based on where balls he hit landed regardless of ballbark, is … 55. Sixty percent of his HRs would’ve left any ballpark, the top rate in the majors among hitters with at least 25 HRs.
As anyone who actually knows baseball is aware: You could look it up.
Here’s Judge’s HR spray chart, courtesy of Statcast. In all, 9 were shy of 380 feet, and 3 of those were 378. The shortest was 355.
the cliché is that Judge could hit a ball out of any park including Yellowstone.
Heh, just saw that he hit two more. My comment was outdated before I even posted it.
I’m trying to remember: The AL record holder whom Judge is chasing — what was the right field fence like in his home park, and which side of the plate did he bat from?
BarneyGumble said:
14 of 55, now 15 of 57 = > 25%.
Thats a good deal of them buddy,
In which a Yankees fan gripes about a team star’s power to the opposite field. (No. 56, to right-center, went 383 feet.)
We Phillies fans always admired that quality in Ryan Howard, before his 2011 Achilles’ tear. But we’re a famously easygoing crowd.
DaveSchmidt said:
In which a Yankees fan gripes about a team star’s power to the opposite field. (No. 56, to right-center, went 383 feet.)
We Phillies fans always admired that quality in Ryan Howard, before his 2011 Achilles’ tear. But we’re a famously easygoing crowd.
Seems this Gumble guy isn't happy unless he's complaining.
If Judge had normal offensive MVP stats, which would be marginally better than Ohtani’s offensive numbers this year, I could see Ohtani’s pitching putting him ahead, despite the fact that the Angels haven’t played a meaningful game in months.
But Judge has once-in-a-generation offensive numbers, which include threatening for the Triple Crown. He leads the league in both elements of OPS. He has TWENTY more home runs than anyone else in the majors. Only Babe Ruth has ever won the title by more.
Other Yankees have started to hit a bit lately, but a week or so ago, Judge had 40 percent of the team’s post-All Star Break homers. We can rejoice in Ohtani’s unique contribution to the game, and in many years, his performance would be MVP-worthy, but voting against Judge this year would be the equivalent of a young Homer Simpson ignoring the moon landing in favor of bopping to “Yummy Yummy Yummy, I’ve Got Love in My Tummy” on huge headphones.
chalmers said:
If Judge had normal offensive MVP stats, which would be marginally better than Ohtani’s offensive numbers this year, I could see Ohtani’s pitching putting him ahead, despite the fact that the Angels haven’t played a meaningful game in months.
But Judge has once-in-a-generation offensive numbers, which include threatening for the Triple Crown. He leads the league in both elements of OPS. He has TWENTY more home runs than anyone else in the majors. Only Babe Ruth has ever won the title by more.
Other Yankees have started to hit a bit lately, but a week or so ago, Judge had 40 percent of the team’s post-All Star Break homers. We can rejoice in Ohtani’s unique contribution to the game, and in many years, his performance would be MVP-worthy, but voting against Judge this year would be the equivalent of a young Homer Simpson ignoring the moon landing in favor of bopping to “Yummy Yummy Yummy, I’ve Got Love in My Tummy” on huge headphones.
that's a very good argument.
Way better than the "Ohtani's not an MVP because his team stinks" argument.
ml1 said:
that's a very good argument.Way better than the "Ohtani's not an MVP because his team stinks" argument.
No fan of Andre Dawson could ever make that argument in good conscience.
Though advanced metrics are not very kind to the Hawk’s ’87 MVP season, where he had 49 HRs and 137 RBIs, but only a .328 OBP and a 4.0 oWAR (by comparison, Judge is 9.0 this year, Ohtani is 3.4).
Spotted on the twitterverse...
SCENE: A baseball labor court case.
LAWYER: "Your honor, I'd like to explain the concept of designation for assignment to the jury"
JUDGE: "I'm sure the Jeurys Familia."
chalmers said:
Though advanced metrics are not very kind to the Hawk’s ’87 MVP season, where he had 49 HRs and 137 RBIs, but only a .328 OBP and a 4.0 oWAR (by comparison, Judge is 9.0 this year, Ohtani is 3.4).
Judge’s pWAR is 0.0 this year; Ohtani’s is 4.7. That’s eighth among all MLB pitchers. (His oWAR ranks third among all DHs.)
And, hey, how valuable to a team’s depth and versatility is that freed-up roster spot? (I know, we’re talking the 26th man on a 61-82 squad.)
John Stearns, who died yesterday, was a first-round Phillies draft pick (No. 2 overall) who went to the Mets after the 1974 season in the trade for Tug McGraw. His career fWAR of 18.9 as a catcher ranks in the top 100 (No. 95), just ahead of Steve Yeager.
I remember Stearns being known for his speed, and he stole 91 bases overall, peaking at 25 in 1978. His top BsR, the advanced baserunning stat, which includes things like going from first to third, was 1.7 in 1981, his age 29 season. That led the majors among catchers.
Which puts J.T. Realmuto’s BsR at age 31 this season in some jaw-dropping perspective: 5.9. (Adley Rutschman and his 24-year-old legs are second at 4.6, and Meibrys Viloria is a distant third at 1.6.)
ETA: But I repeat myself. I forgot I mentioned Realmuto’s BsR just the other day.
DaveSchmidt said:
John Stearns, who died yesterday, was a first-round Phillies draft pick (No. 2 overall) who went to the Mets after the 1974 season in the trade for Tug McGraw. His career fWAR of 18.9 as a catcher ranks in the top 100 (No. 95), just ahead of Steve Yeager.
I remember Stearns being known for his speed, and he stole 91 bases overall, peaking at 25 in 1978. His top BsR, the advanced baserunning stat, which includes things like going from first to third, was 1.7 in 1981, his age 29 season. That led the majors among catchers.
Which puts J.T. Realmuto’s BsR at age 31 this season in some jaw-dropping perspective: 5.9. (Adley Rutschman and his 24-year-old legs are second at 4.6, and Meibrys Viloria is a distant third at 1.6.)
ETA: But I repeat myself. I forgot I mentioned Realmuto’s BsR just the other day.
Stearns was also drafted ahead of Winfield in baseball and football
jfinnegan said:
Stearns was also drafted ahead of Winfield in baseball and football
Ha! I had to look it up: Both taken in the same round of the NFL draft — the 17th!
DaveSchmidt said:
Ha! I had to look it up: Both taken in the same round of the NFL draft — the 17th!
Stearns had an advantage. Pretty sure Winfield did not play football in college.
ml1 said:
Stearns had an advantage. Pretty sure Winfield did not play football in college.
Ha! Pretty sure Winfield was 6-6, 230 pounds, at Minnesota and Stearns was 5-11, 195, at Colorado. If I could Like the comment a second time, I (also 5-11, 195) would.
When I watch the Pirates I am struck by the fact that they have no veterans to talk to their players. Guys not running hard, admiring home runs that don't get out, and one guy had his bat slip and fly into the stands. He never even looked over with any concern. Not even acknowledging that someone could have been hurt.
DanDietrich said:
When I watch the Pirates I am struck by the fact that they have no veterans to talk to their players. Guys not running hard, admiring home runs that don't get out, and one guy had his bat slip and fly into the stands. He never even looked over with any concern. Not even acknowledging that someone could have been hurt.
Todd Zeile showed a clip of Ke'Bryan Hayes reaching into his pocket and popping a sunflower seed into his mouth as Escobar rounded third on his way to scoring.
I'm not one to bash guys for trivial stuff. But I wouldn't have even done that in the middle of a play in softball.
https://twitter.com/snytv/status/1570958234063708161?s=46&t=b0EkmjShY7I6SRybyBIGcA
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My argument for Judge is that his team would not make the playoffs without him. This is his career year.