Jefferson and Maplewood Avenue
When the 4 way stop was initiated at Prospect Street and Harvard Avenue, there were a fair number of cars that did not respond to the 4 way stop. Some still don't. That said, on the whole, this intersection has become much safer than it was before the 4 way stop was placed at that location. Hoping the same will be the case at Maplewood and Jefferson.
Don't know the cause of the accident pictured, but, if it was the result of a driver ignoring the stop light on Maplewood Av., what makes anybody think that such drivers would pay attention to a stop light on Jefferson?
And why would the fool who now blows the Maplewood Av., light, pay any more attention just because the intersection is a four way stop?
I'm thinking it's likely that there are a lot of our neighbors who don't know that a flashing red is a stop signal. (I know of one guy near the Tuscan School with a small black Merc who either doesn't know, or perhaps, doesn't think the lights apply to him.)
Just one man thinking out loud here in Maplewood.
TomR
P.s. The idea above about making Jefferson and Parker one-way streets intrigues me. I wonder what the Fire Department, and the P.D. would think?
Tom_R said:
Don't know the cause of the accident pictured, but, if it was the result of a driver ignoring the stop light on Maplewood Av., what makes anybody think that such drivers would pay attention to a stop light on Jefferson?
And why would the fool who now blows the Maplewood Av., light, pay any more attention just because the intersection is a four way stop?
The theory that drivers on Maplewood Avenue do stop, but then proceed into the intersection under the mistaken belief it’s a four-way stop that applies as well to Jefferson Avenue traffic, would obviate your questions.
ETA: Put another way, an answer to the questions might be: 1. The above theory makes anybody who subscribes to it think that. 2. A four-way stop would bring the “fools” in line with reality.
Tom_R said:
DaveSchmidt,
I'm not understanding. Please elaborate.
TomR
he’s a philosopher… he speaks in parables also…
Tom_R said:
Don't know the cause of the accident pictured, but, if it was the result of a driver ignoring the stop light on Maplewood Av., what makes anybody think that such drivers would pay attention to a stop light on Jefferson?
And why would the fool who now blows the Maplewood Av., light, pay any more attention just because the intersection is a four way stop?
I'm thinking it's likely that there are a lot of our neighbors who don't know that a flashing red is a stop signal. (I know of one guy near the Tuscan School with a small black Merc who either doesn't know, or perhaps, doesn't think the lights apply to him.)
Just one man thinking out loud here in Maplewood.
TomR
P.s. The idea above about making Jefferson and Parker one-way streets intrigues me. I wonder what the Fire Department, and the P.D. would think?
The drivers on Maplewood Ave are not “ignoring” the stop light. They are stopping and then proceeding, assuming that the crossing traffic on Jefferson will also stop. Since the crossing traffic does not stop, the potential for an accident occurs.
Does that make it clearer?
Why are you all constantly saying that the problem is all from the Maplewood Ave side? I have more than once seen Jefferson traffic slow to a stop and then turn left in front of oncoming traffic, assuming that they themselves had a stop when they did not.
Jaytee said:
he’s a philosopher… he speaks in parables also…
The only philosopher on MOL was author.
DaveSchmidt said:
The only philosopher on MOL was author..........................
Fixed that for you.
DaveSchmidt said:
The only philosopher on MOL was author.
God rest his soul.
DanDietrich said: "Why are you all constantly saying that the problem is all from the
Maplewood Ave side? I have more than once seen Jefferson traffic slow
to a stop and then turn left in front of oncoming traffic, assuming that
they themselves had a stop when they did not."
Another scenario that hopefully would be alleviated by a 4-way stop imo.
jimmurphy said:
DaveSchmidt said:
The only philosopher on MOL was author..........................
Fixed that for you.
Aww!
DanDietrich said:
Why are you all constantly saying that the problem is all from the Maplewood Ave side? I have more than once seen Jefferson traffic slow to a stop and then turn left in front of oncoming traffic, assuming that they themselves had a stop when they did not.
Not understanding your statement. Please elaborate.
TomR
jimmurphy said:
The drivers on Maplewood Ave are not “ignoring” the stop light. They are stopping and then proceeding, assuming that the crossing traffic on Jefferson will also stop. Since the crossing traffic does not stop, the potential for an accident occurs.
Does that make it clearer?
If a driver is on on Maplewood Av., at a stop light, why (how) would they assume that crossing traffic would also stop?
When I learned the basics, I was instructed to stop, and wait until the intersection was clear before proceeding.
But, then again, I did live in New York when I learned the basics.
So I'm wondering whether: different basics were taught in the Garden State; there's something in the water, which, for whatever reason, I've avoided; or the pods have arrived and I'm a reincarnation of Dr. Bennell.
TomR
Tom_R said:
If a driver is on on Maplewood Av., at a stop light, why (how) would they assume that crossing traffic would also stop?
While you may be an exception, a lot of the rest of us drivers make mistakes. In this case, the mistake would be assuming that the intersection was a four-way stop.
Per last night's committee meeting, there will be a 4-way stop at Jefferson/Maplewood Ave and Jefferson/Walton/Woodland.
DaveSchmidt said:
Tom_R said:
If a driver is on on Maplewood Av., at a stop light, why (how) would they assume that crossing traffic would also stop?
While you may be an exception, a lot of the rest of us drivers make mistakes. In this case, the mistake would be assuming that the intersection was a four-way stop.
That's what I'm trying to inderstand. Why, or how, would a sentient being make such an assumption?
And, if they make that assumption, why, or how, could they think that they are absolved of their obligation to stop? After all, they thought it was a four-way stop.
TomR
Tom_R said:
That's what I'm trying to inderstand. Why, or how, would a sentient being make such an assumption?
And, if they make that assumption, why, or how, could they think that they are absolved of their obligation to stop? After all, they thought it was a four-way stop.
The sentient being completes the obligated stop on Maplewood Avenue. The sentient being sees a car approaching the intersection from the west, down the Jefferson hill. Expecting the other car to stop at the presumed stop sign/light on Jefferson, the sentient being proceeds into the intersection. Because there is in fact no stop sign/light on Jefferson, the other car doesn’t stop, resulting in a collision.
DaveSchmidt,
You're ignoring the prime assumption.
Why, or how, would a sentient being make such an assumption?
TomR
A few years ago, some (intelligent) friends from Atlanta drove us through that intersection from Maplewood to South Orange. We nearly got into an accident because my friends (despite all the signs telling them it wasn't) thought it was a 4-way stop.
Tom_R said:
DaveSchmidt,
You're ignoring the prime assumption.
Why, or how, would a sentient being make such an assumption?
TomR
You're either ignoring or missing my earlier answer: People make mistakes.
And let's credit ridski with having (some) sentient friends.
DaveSchmidt said:
Tom_R said:
DaveSchmidt,
You're ignoring the prime assumption.
Why, or how, would a sentient being make such an assumption?
TomR
You're either ignoring or missing my earlier answer: People make mistakes.
And let's credit ridski with having (some) sentient friends.
Another issue is that drivers on Jefferson need to make lefts and rights onto Maplewood Ave, and I've seen them stopped at the intersection (including just last night) waiting for cars on Maplewood to cross so they can turn. I cannot vouch for the sentience of those drivers but I can say every time I go through that intersection, there is a human in the driver's seat.
Are these signs brand new?
There are 4 of them now, at Jefferson/Woodland/Walton.
And the Share the Road (bike) pavement markings are disappearing on Woodland, near Jefferson.
DaveSchmidt said:
You're either ignoring or missing my earlier answer: People make mistakes.
And let's credit ridski with having (some) sentient friends.
If you haven't a cogent explanation as to why people ignore this particular stop light with such amazing frequency, we're just gonna keep running in circles, and I'm going to again suggest that people learn different skills, depending upon where they learned to drive.
Although, I believe it is note worthy that I learned to drive in The Bronx. A County in which I can not recall ever having seen a flashing red stop light. (But I still know it means STOP, and proceed only when the intersection is clear).
As for ridski's observations; they only noted that the drivers were human. Your extrapolation of his observation is not empirically justified.
TomR
Tom_R said:
If you haven't a cogent explanation as to why people ignore this particular stop light with such amazing frequency, we're just gonna keep running in circles, and I'm going to again suggest that people learn different skills, depending upon where they learned to drive.
Although, I believe it is note worthy that I learned to drive in the Bronx. A County in which I can not recall ever having seen a flashing red stop light. (But I still know it means STOP, and proceed only when the intersection is clear).
As for ridski's observations; they only noted that the drivers were human. Your extrapolation of his observation is not empirically justified.
TomR
LOL sorry, I'm watching the FailArmy channel right now. The NJ driving test is a joke, and most people who live and drive here can't drive.
ridski,
Thanks for the chuckle.
I apologize for my earlier misuse of the word sentient.
TomR
Tom_R said:
As for ridski's observations; they only noted that the drivers were human. Your extrapolation of his observation is not empirically justified.
You’re a hard man to illuminate. In one observation, he also parenthetically noted their intelligence.
Look both ways.
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Local drivers on Jefferson tend to approach that intersection with caution, as you do. Caution tends to recognize prominent signage and/or flashing red lights.