Increase # of Liquor License

Here, this is a nice example of a station bar, just east of Manchester in the UK:

http://www.beerhouses.co.uk/pub/stalybridge-buffet-bar/

Or our own Dinky. The "dinky" is the short NJT train which connects Princeton Junction on the NE Corridor line to the town of Princeton on the university campus. A new station was built recently, the old one is now the Dinky Bar and Kitchen. The old cargo building next to it is now a bistro, Cargot.

alias said:

it would be our own little Campbell's Apartment. 

The Maplewood train station would have to be much taller in order to make money. Perhaps a mall on top of that, too.  

Where's Author?

dave said:

The Maplewood train station would have to be much taller in order to make money. Perhaps a mall on top of that, too.  

Where's Author?

Serving word salad in the Starbucks boycott thread.

The discussion of the effect on the value of existing liquor licenses reminds me of what happened with taxi medallions in NYC and elsewhere.   Medallions became insanely expensive and then crashed when a superior alternative in the form of Uber came along.  Licensing should be about licensing and not creating and protecting a speculative commodity.  Either we have a legitimate regulatory interest in limiting the number of licenses for something or we don't.     

ml1 said:

only thing is they'd need to install AC

And a kitchen.

I don't know the pricing or politics about liquor licensing in Texas (my home state), but up until I was a teenager (in the early 1970s), "liquor by the drink" was prohibited by law there, except in private clubs.  (There were some "clubs" where you could "join" on the spot for the night; I wonder if that's where the term "nightclubs" came from? But there definitely were not many bars in restaurants.) At some point the law was changed, although some counties elected to remain "dry".  But, almost overnight, virtually EVERY restaurant in the remaining counties (including all the major cities) had a bar.  So, when I moved to New Jersey about ten years later, I was astounded at the shortage of bars in this much less conservative state.

ETA - Also, in Texas (and many other states), you can buy beer and wine in pretty much any grocery or drugstore, Target, etc.

In most states, every Trader Joe's has a liquor department. They actually started out as a liquor store. 

BTW, the wine and liquor section at the new Wegmans is pretty nice. 

yahooyahoo said:

They now have Phil Murphy.

Steve said:

yahooyahoo said:

The proposed legislation to legalize recreational marijuana does not place a limit on the number of establishments that could sell it. If that passes, it's only a matter of time until the limit on liquor licenses is lifted.

Your local corner weed guy doesn't have a strong lobbying presence in Trenton. 

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/12/phil_murphys_wish_list_sheneman_cartoon.html

TomR

bub said:

The discussion of the effect on the value of existing liquor licenses reminds me of what happened with taxi medallions in NYC and elsewhere.   Medallions became insanely expensive and then crashed when a superior alternative in the form of Uber came along.  Licensing should be about licensing and not creating and protecting a speculative commodity.  Either we have a legitimate regulatory interest in limiting the number of licenses for something or we don't.     

Would you know whether the population density limit on licenses was caused by an anti-temperance sentiment following prohibition; the maneuvering of a retail liquor cabal; or some other reason(s)?

TomR

Considering that we still have blue laws in parts of NJ, I would vote for input from religious interests.  Don't know for sure.

I think it started out as a temperance thing but long ago morphed into an entrenched interest group thing.

if there were much looser liquor laws and many more places served, prices would’ve driven down.

In 2013, we moved from New Jersey back to New York where I grew up. Even though I had visited New York often over the years, being back is both old and new, and one striking thing is the availability of alcohol. Beer licenses are easier to obtain than wine licenses, which are easier to obtain than liquor licenses. Beer is everywhere, at every corner grocery and deli and even drug store. I think licensing aims to reduce public drunkenness. I don't see much more public drunkenness here (in NYC) than I did in NJ. I live in a tourist neighborhood, so sometimes it gets annoyingly loud. We do oppose applications for licenses for bars near us because we already have enough noise, but I don't wish for them to be as scarce as in NJ. I think the status quo in NJ keeps a certain advantage for a few, which is why it doesn't change. Plus there is inertia from changing the laws. But if people fear some kind of mayhem, I think the fear is unfounded. But hey, be glad it's not Pennsylvania, right?

dave said:

The Maplewood train station would have to be much taller in order to make money. Perhaps a mall on top of that, too.  

Where's Author?

Author is girding his loins.....taking a few vitamins....trying to absorb some winter sun..........difficult now with the Village skyline polluted with that new..forgettable, overlarge building finished

But when there is tyranny in the land

when free people hunger and thirst for justice

look to the hills

look for a man riding a white horse,

It won't be me ,   not my style......but

I will be around to lend a hand until the battle is over and justice is restored

GoSlugs said:

BTW, the wine and liquor section at the new Wegmans is pretty nice. 

That's nice, but we should be able to have a section like that in many more stores.  Every CVS, Walgreens, Target, grocery store, etc. in Houston has wine for sale. Why should it be different here?

Let's not put A and D out of business just yet.  

They recently moved into the new Buy-rite.  Fortunately the App and delivery service are unchanged.

FilmCarp said:

Let's not put A and D out of business just yet.  

FilmCarp said:

Let's not put A and D out of business just yet.  

I don't know about other states, but Texas only has beer and wine in the grocery/drug stores, so the liquor stores still do a good business there.

sac said:

FilmCarp said:

Let's not put A and D out of business just yet.  

I don't know about other states, but Texas only has beer and wine in the grocery/drug stores, so the liquor stores still do a good business there.

I would give my left big toe to have a Central Market in driving distance!

Alias, I'm a regular at A and D.  My point is that they are making a big investment.  I can go to Wegmans and save 5 bucks on the beer I like, but I would rather support a good local business.  

joan_crystal said:

Considering that we still have blue laws in parts of NJ, I would vote for input from religious interests.  Don't know for sure.

No, religion has no place in government.  I don't know how the blue laws are allowed to stand, but they are antiquated and need to go.  If I want to buy a pair of pants on a Sunday in Paramus, I should be allowed to do so.  If the store CHOOSES to stay closed, that's fine.  If someone doesn't want to shop on Sunday, then don't shop on Sunday. If they don't want to work from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday, then don't.  If you don't want to purchase or drink alcohol at 10am on a Sunday morning.  But please DON'T tell me that I can or cannot do these things because of someone else's religion. 

Agreed spontaneous.

spontaneous said:
 

joan_crystal said:

Considering that we still have blue laws in parts of NJ, I would vote for input from religious interests.  Don't know for sure.

No, religion has no place in government.  I don't know how the blue laws are allowed to stand, but they are antiquated and need to go.  If I want to buy a pair of pants on a Sunday in Paramus, I should be allowed to do so.  If the store CHOOSES to stay closed, that's fine.  If someone doesn't want to shop on Sunday, then don't shop on Sunday. If they don't want to work from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday, then don't.  If you don't want to purchase or drink alcohol at 10am on a Sunday morning.  But please DON'T tell me that I can or cannot do these things because of someone else's religion. 

I grew up in Bergen County, and my Mom still lives there.  The "blue laws" have nothing to do with religion any more.  When the question comes up, residents of all persuasions, denominations, philosophies and beliefs unite on one issue - traffic.  They want a day of rest, especially in Paramus (or "Land of Malls").

I understand businesses paid a lot for their licenses and want to preserve their value. Increasing the number of licenses obviously lowers the value of each.

I wonder if you went to every current license owner and told them they could split their license into two licenses and sell one how many would take the chance. You could double the number of licenses and the current owners would realize a portion of the lost value. 

I'm not a huge proponent of increasing the number of bars around the two towns but it seems like the inordinate expense of acquiring a liquor license just makes it all that much harder for a new restaurant to thrive.

nohero said:

spontaneous said:
 

joan_crystal said:

Considering that we still have blue laws in parts of NJ, I would vote for input from religious interests.  Don't know for sure.

No, religion has no place in government.  I don't know how the blue laws are allowed to stand, but they are antiquated and need to go.  If I want to buy a pair of pants on a Sunday in Paramus, I should be allowed to do so.  If the store CHOOSES to stay closed, that's fine.  If someone doesn't want to shop on Sunday, then don't shop on Sunday. If they don't want to work from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday, then don't.  If you don't want to purchase or drink alcohol at 10am on a Sunday morning.  But please DON'T tell me that I can or cannot do these things because of someone else's religion. 

I grew up in Bergen County, and my Mom still lives there.  The "blue laws" have nothing to do with religion any more.  When the question comes up, residents of all persuasions, denominations, philosophies and beliefs unite on one issue - traffic.  They want a day of rest, especially in Paramus (or "Land of Malls").

The interesting thing is the author of the original Sunday Blue Law was Assemblyman Murray Klepish. He lived in Millburn. The original law banned many products, particularly home repair products, in the entire state.

You can buy beer, wine and liquor at practically every grocery store in California. Liquor stores still do good business there. I'm sure competition from grocery stores eats into their profits, but they still manage to stay open.

I like the folks at the Wine Barrel and A&D and don't want to hurt their business. But the liquor licensing laws (both for restaurants and stores) are out of date and bad for consumers, in terms of price and choice. The only thing keeping them in place is lobbying to preserve the stats quo for the very few New Jerseyans who own these licenses. This is just bad public policy.

FilmCarp said:

Alias, I'm a regular at A and D.  My point is that they are making a big investment.  I can go to Wegmans and save 5 bucks on the beer I like, but I would rather support a good local business.  

I am all for a few more licenses for restaurants.  I'm not all for beer in convenience stores and grocery stores. 

Why? Should I really have to make trips to several stores to buy what I can buy at one store? What about people who live in areas where there aren't a lot of liquor stores? Shouldn't they be able to buy beer conveniently as well?

FilmCarp said:

I am all for a few more licenses for restaurants.  I'm not all for beer in convenience stores and grocery stores.