Greg or Jerry

".having lived near the Park , I knew the space was never used for any of the claimed uses ."

This is false. I, too, live near the Park. Just yesterday there were young children playing soccer in that upper field. Kids playing Frisbee. Older boys play football and soccer there frequently. In fact, there is a large soccer net there now. So, you are absolutely WRONG to make the above statement. 

Fred-

I'm sorry to see you run out of here. Dave and Jamie run a very nasty board. If you are on their side, you can libel at will. If you are not, you are banned if you defend yourself. You have been forced to endure an incessant string of ad hominem attacks for three weeks now, for daring to oppose Vic's agenda which becomes the MOL group-think. And, in the process, your extraordinary record of service has been debased by a rabble here who collectively have contributed maybe 10% to the town as you have. Please know your lifetime of effort on behalf of the town is appreciated by all of good cheer. I actually opposed some of your efforts, especially the CCR, but at no time did I ever doubt your sincerity. And seeing the significant financial contributions your family has made reminds me of your dedication. Godspeed to you.

I'm sure all polticians are sincere in their beliefs and agendas. That's the scary part. No harmful intent to anyone in particular here, but that is just the way most politicians are. I finally feel I can comment on the Greg or Gerry topic of this thread. I don't have any history with either of these candidates, but I can say that I never got a good feeling for either of them, but admittedly have only met either of them briefly. 

Who else is going to run? I want new choices. The current ones are not inspiring. Greg's supporters seem to be more inspired to get him elected than he does himself. Gerry doesn't seem to really want to be there either. Maybe I'll only cast my vote for Nancy. She sounds slightly more inspiring, but I haven't met her in person.

There are plenty of remaining opportunities between now and the primary to meet each of the candidates and get a sense of how effective they will be on the TC as well as how their positions on the issues which concern you mesh with your own. There will be a few meet and greets between now and the primary election to which all three candidates have been invited.  Any one of these will provide an opportunity to hear the candidates' positions on the issues and to speak with them in person.  I saw, and spoke with, both Nancy and Greg when they were campaigning in the Village this past Saturday, May 2.  On another Saturday morning in the Village, I spoke with Jerry.   It is very likely that all three of the candidates will be in the Village on at least some Saturday mornings between now and the election.  In addition, meet and greets will likely be held for individual candidates between now and the primary election. 

A  few more.......................

http://villagegreennj.com/towns/government/maplewood-tc-candidates-forums-scheduled-may-16-21/

so once again, even though there are two TC seats up for election, the Maplewood GOP can only scare up one candidate.  who isn't bothering to show up for the senior Q&A.

it's time to stop blaming the "cabal" for the fact that Maplewood voters don't have much choice at election time.  The township's Republicans aren't even trying.

The senior Q & A is focused on the Democratic Primary not the general election.  I expect/hope we will learn more about the Republican Party candidate in the fall.  Does anyone even know who it is?

according to the Village Green article it's Phyllis Scalera, running in the GOP primary unopposed.

Thanks.

hazel said:

".having lived near the Park , I knew the space was never used for any of the claimed uses ."

This is false. I, too, live near the Park. Just yesterday there were young children playing soccer in that upper field. Kids playing Frisbee. Older boys play football and soccer there frequently. In fact, there is a large soccer net there now. So, you are absolutely WRONG to make the above statement. 

 For 7 years my back yard backed up to the part of Orchard park where the proposed garden was to be placed . I had sold that home and moved before the proposal was made. For seven years, every time I stood at my kitchen sink or sat in my little TV room I had a view out the window onto that part of the park .   Although the playground was often more crowded, that part of the park was used frequently, by all kinds of people.  It was used often by dads and kids practicing  soccer, baseball and the like, but never a day went by , even in bad weather, when that part of the park wasn't enjoyed by someone.  Certainly , in the course of a year   hundreds of times the people who would have used the garden space enjoyed that part of Orchard Park.     

Also, during extremely heavy rainstorms, like Floyd and Irene, that part of the park is flooded by runoff from the hill and from the stream that winds through Washington Park and goes underground at Ridgewood Road.  During storms like  Irene and Floyd that stream over-runs the pipe that brings it underground, turning that section of the park into a lake.   Any garden there would be washed away by one of the 100 year storms that seem to occur every 5 to 10 years. 

Putting a community garden there would have been ill informed and ill conceived.

Revisiting an old issue such as the community garden proposed for Orchard Park (especially since that particular issue was resolved) is not useful for a discussion of the Township Committee primary for 2015.  Just my opinion, mind you ...

Holy cow.  I haven't read MOL in quite a while.  What's up with all the vitriol and animosity?  This is like an alternate universe of people who don't reflect the spirit of the community. The level of discourse is embarrassing for us all.  Why the down and dirty?  Some people here should walk away from their computers and try their hand at something constructive for Maplewood.  But then again, it's a hell of a lot easier to skewer people who run for office or work to advocate for certain municipal action than to put their own necks out.

Mr. or Mrs. Ice.......sorry but your thought processes are melting.  I was married to the woman whose Herculean efforts created the Maplelwood Community Garden.   She brought it into existence from nothing  by force of personality..   I will not go into the preposterous efforts that came forth to prevent its genesis.   Step by step she and a very few others presented proof that it would be a great thing for the community.

Of course at the Ribbon Cutting you will never guess who showed up for a photo op.   Never mind..........it has been a rousing success which at one time had three large and separate gardens in existence.

"Revisionist."?  Not on your leaking ice cube tray.....

I think the community gardens are a wonderful thing.   But  I do have a huge complaint -  The garden at the Montrose site was abandoned - and left a holy mess, which was a nasty thing to do to the neighborhood.  There was abandoned fencing and piping that held up the fencing.  It was horribly overgrown, and those who kept the rest of the Montrose property mowed and groomed seemed unable to mow that area because of the refuse left behind.  I used to walk my dog there, until I saw rats in the former garden.  

That mess was there for at least 4 summers and now had thankfully been cleaned up - at taxpayer expense.  All I can say is THANK GOD  the people who left the mess at Montrose School were not allowed to touch Orchard Park

Sarah.........you are correct in mentioning what happened at Montrose School.   But there is a back story that was never publicized.

After one very successful season the Garden was told by the school authorities that they would have to leave as there was the possibility the entire building and grounds might be sold.............but they offered a carrot in saying that if it was not sold then the garden could return.   Well this meant that at first it was wise to leave the fencing etc as they might very well be used again.

The Promise/possibility dragged on year after year.  The school system never asked the Garden to remove their materials.........which they would have done gladly.  I guess everyone  assumed that any construction company would use their heavy equipment to clean up the site in a day.

With all that the mess remained all the while with still no request or order to have the Garden remove it.

Yes it did become an unsightly mess but one letter or e mail from the school system and the Garden,  which was still hoping

to return would have done its civic duty.

I should mention that there is also a nice garden on the grounds of the Elks building. It is a joint project of the Maplewood

Community Garden.........Rent Party and the Elks.

The garden at the Elks grows food for the food banks at St Joseph's and OLS.  It is tended under the aegis of Rent Party and as such is not part of the community garden program.

Nothing revisionist about my thinking ...far be it ..

But this thread is about the politics before us ...and the revisionist thinking of Ice and Sarah .

My point was to show that Fred was supportive In our efforts every step of the way ... He helped make our work to bring transform unused land happen by being a listener and attending the various meetings with county or state authorities. He did not stand in the background. He helped every step of the way and shared our passion to use food in a healthy way for families and those in need of food .He helped shape that vision. When we had to step back fearing what might occur, we did and were offered the TH area .

As for the area being used by kids all of the time I question what windows anyone was or is looking out of because that spot is very rarely used . Before it was checked out by the Master Gardener of Essex County coordinator for its viability as a garden site, we knew how little it was used . An area equal to that spot lower down field was or could have been used for games. The two areas could have been SHARED by all. But that was not to be 

The park remains as the domain of locals , save for when the Easter egg hunt is held . Th park is used by whatever they choose to do with it.All you need do is to check out the tennis courts ..they are now used as dog runs. Locals transform a tennis court daily as dog run ... Sunday brunches, parties . The garden could have been SHARED by ALL Maplewood residents. The  following year , some who fought this site , joined as MCG members 

The point here is that when a group of residents came before the TC for permission to start a garden , we , were helped and guided by Fred, Kathy and Vic.. The three were instramental in getting MCG installed by approving an ordinance for a garden behind TH .They made it real by allowing more than 80 families to garden .

Such a small , small area is used for community gardening ....yet the 90% of open space used for sports is rallied and contested ..we asked for a small area for gardening ..

Fred's help was immeasurable and for that every farmer in town and every family who gets the bounty of extra food thanks him .

All those Seniors getting fresh produce thank him ...all those summer school kids getting weekly produce thank him ...all those home bound seniors thank him.. And I thank him for his persistence and creativity in making a worthwhile project happen .. Sharing does make you feel good .. Even the regular deliveries from Montrose .. All of this was and will continue to be good because of Fred's  help .. He never wavered .

News flash: Fred's not running.  So unless you believe Greg is merely his puppet, Fred's exploits, as honorable as they may have been, are irrelevant.

I am sorry - I know this is thread drift -but I have to say it.

ICDart - you dont know what you are talking about.  How do you know that "no one " uses Orchard Park or that it is only used by locals - did you do a survey ?   Is there a gatekeeper who keeps a tally.   Thank god policy isnt made based on assumptions like yours

I will reiterate that I am a fan of community gardens. And I moved away long before the garden proposal was made, but icdarts claim that the spot in Orchard Park was little used is mistaken.  My windows that overlooked the park were at 426 Ridgewood Road.  My home was one of three or four that backed up to that park. Every time I stood at my kitchen sink,  I could see out my kitchen window and also  my tv room window - not to mention 2 bedrooms and see the park and the people who used it.  As a realtor I am able to work from home a lot. So for 7 years I saw people in that park at all times of the day, 7 days a week.  I'd bet that there are very very few people in Maplewood who are as familiar with the use of the upper part of Orchard Park as I am.

I wonder, where do you, icdart get your information.   How do you know that it is used only by locals. How do you know that no one uses it.   Just as an FYI, I drive past the South Orange duck pond several times a day, every day and most of the time, no one is there.  I could make the same assumption you did and assume ( incorrectly) that no one uses it.  

I agree that the upper part of Orchard Park not heavily used .  Many times there was no one there,   There were rarely crowds there, except for the occasional pick up games of touch football or groups of kids practicing soccer there.   But over the course of a year , that part of the park was used easily by hundreds and hundreds of people.  I saw them there, walking dogs, picnicking, playing sports, a lot of adults playing with little children.   There were a few ( I assume ) students who would go there to sit and read.

 I wonder, how many people would have had garden plots, perhaps 20 or 30 or 40.  When a park is used for quiet recreation or for just being outside it can be enjoyed by all.  When that space is taken over by garden plots for a few - why would anyone consider that a better use, especially when there were obviously other equally attractive locations available.  

I don't know about now, but those tennis courts were also frequently used,  sometimes by people with dogs, often by children on tricycles or with chalk playing hopscotch and even more frequently by tennis players.  There were often people waiting to use the courts and I believe for a while there was even a sign up at the rec center.

To sum up, if you frequent Orchard Park, it is likely that you may go to that spot often and see no one there.   But if each day 10 people walk their dogs there,  and after lunch a  few moms take their kids to practice tball, and a group of kids play there for an hour, after school, and in the evening a dad and his son throw a ball there for 20 minutes  , and early on a weekend morning 20 guys gather for a game of touch football,   the park would be empty most of the time, but still be very well used.

Today: About 12 girls and their dads were using the upper field of Orchard Park for softball practice. Right now, boys are kicking a soccer ball over and over into the net. icdart, question all you want. You really do not know what you are talking about regarding the usage of Orchard Park. Your reference to "unused land" most definitely does not apply to this Park. 

I am glad that the community garden chose to locate itself on land that was actually unused: the Pool's grass embankment. Makes so much sense to allow easy access for people to bring their plants and gear right up to their plot.

I do not want to keep harping on this under this thread, but I will continue to challenge the complete nonsense about how Orchard Park is, or should I say is NOT (according to icdart) being used. 

.... and now back to our regularly scheduled discussion of current candidates and campaign issues.

The problem is that Greg Lembrich has no record on which to run. That is what invites a focus on the record of is chief supporter. It's almost as if Fred were the leader of a Political Party or faction of a Political Party with a certain history and/or platform.

Citizens are being asked to vote for a person who is unknown to them based principally on their opinions of Fred Profeta who is well-known. 

joan_crystal said:

The garden at the Elks grows food for the food banks at St Joseph's and OLS.  It is tended under the aegis of Rent Party and as such is not part of the community garden program.

 Wow! How did Rent Party get dragged into this?!

No one is safe...!

I hadn't even heard of Fred until this thread came up (I've been asleep for a few decades?), but if Fred's words and actions on this and other recent threads is how I base my decision on whether to vote for Greg or not, Greg would not be getting my vote. Greg would need to find some new (and polite) vocal supporters to gain my vote if that were the case. Fortunately I'm more intelligent than that, but I still don't know enough about Greg to push my vote his way, nor do I have as negative a reaction about the existing council members to consider voting Jerry out for any reason. How a certain member votes on one issue is a ridiculous reason to stone them in the public square.