Firemen Against Sheena Knock On My Door
soda said:
The sammich is just too freaking good to buy one elsewhere.
Let's not get carried away. Here are a few points from a person who has eaten his last (of many) of these sandwiches.
1. $27 for a sandwich that feeds two. It better be good.
2. Walk in there and try to order a sandwich. There are plenty of people behind the counter, none of them want anything to do with you until they finish whatever they are doing at the moment.
3. While I'm sure they consider it artful, their construction of the sandwich is ridiculous bordering on masturbatory.
librarylady said:
I did ask them for their names and recognized one or two. So unless they found FD shirts ( SO & Orange) somewhere and memorized actual firefighters names, I have no question in my mind who actually were out going door to door
For two weekends in a row several posters have reported that men/women have been going door to door all over town espousing DDFs mantra that Sheena is looking
To put us in danger by making the SOFD inadequate for the village’s needs. Who do you think these canvassers are if not State and local firefighters?
Uniform shirts? Campaigning in uniform is a no no lots of places. You’d want to be precise on this one. If they were just in personal t-shirts or whatever that’s probably different.
basil said:
can somebody share the two establishments in question here? Boycotting is a lot easier if you know who
Bunny's and Town Hall Deli.
Red_Barchetta said:
soda said:Let's not get carried away. Here are a few points from a person who has eaten his last (of many) of these sandwiches.
The sammich is just too freaking good to buy one elsewhere.
1. $27 for a sandwich that feeds two. It better be good.
2. Walk in there and try to order a sandwich. There are plenty of people behind the counter, none of them want anything to do with you until they finish whatever they are doing at the moment.
3. While I'm sure they consider it artful, their construction of the sandwich is ridiculous bordering on masturbatory.
1. Three normal adults can happily enjoy a Joe. That's $9 a head. Really. It's not like you're in a Joe-Eating Contest...
2. If you don't like THD staff focusing on their craft because it makes you feel neglected, maybe you should speak to Matt about hiring an order-taker/expediter to make your wait less onerous next time (if there IS a next time).
3. Whether or not you appreciate the effort and exactitude that goes into a Joe, recognize this: For a very long time, folks around this area have made THD a success, just because they have kept a superior tradition alive.
Go elsewhere! Try Fairchild's in Roseland, where Ronny will make your Joe. Or Millburn Deli, for a weaker approximation. Or...
-s.
PurpleMonkeyDshwashr said:
basil said:Bunny's and Town Hall Deli.
can somebody share the two establishments in question here? Boycotting is a lot easier if you know who
Sadly I have never been there so my boycott is not going to make a strong impact
To me it isn't a boycott. I'm just not going there again. Others go there, and their business will be fine. They don't need me
jerseyjack Joe D will, and has, done nothing for FF's. Voted with Christie to cut pensions while he follows a loop hole to collect TWO pensions.
Traditionally, FF's in Map/SO have not been included in this discussion of consolidating the fire departments. This has been a topic for 30 years, yes thirty. We always supported consolidation. We asked for a seat at the negotiation table and were not given one by the Maplewood or South Orange governing bodies. I was on the shared services committee for the Maplewood FD along with friends of mine from the SOFD. We asked if we could attend the "shared services" meetings between the two towns. WE were not invited. The discussions were not productive. You definitely had the feeling that the talks were for "show". Nothing substantive. One representative, who is no longer serving, did not know that both towns had full time career FD's. "You work on Christmas?!" was one comment, " "what color are your Fire Trucks ?" was another. It is discouraging when you realize you are a pawn.
I should point out this was for the merger which was proposed about 15 years ago, not the current situation. Not much has changed.
jbird said:
jerseyjack Joe D will, and has, done nothing for FF's. Voted with Christie to cut pensions while he follows a loop hole to collect TWO pensions.
And yet SOFD is now campaigning to help one of his people get in office in South Orange
Another family no longer spending money at THD or Bunny's. We're done. Looking forward to the opening of Mozzarella. THD is good, but I'm not going to cry over eating less processed meat and mayo. Moving on and putting my money where my mouth is. The Pogany and Wonkski families made their choices, and I've made mine.
OhHenry said:
Another family no longer spending money at THD or Bunny's. We're done. Looking forward to the opening of Mozzarella. THD is good, but I'm not going to cry over eating less processed meat and mayo. Moving on and putting my money where my mouth is. The Pogany and Wonkski families made their choices, and I've made mine.
Speaking of....when does Mozzarella open??
We're having a Sloppy Joe platter from Millburn Deli for 25 people on Mother's Day - it's a tradition. I've never seen an operation that is that well run. It's like watching a dance performance.
eta - Everybody always hopes that there will be some left so that they can take some home.
spontaneous They are frustrated and she included them in the discussion. They have zero affiliation with Joe D. He has no influence over FF's. We have , as a county, the most career FF's in the state i believe and yet we have no fire training academy. He is no friend to the fire service
jbird said:
spontaneous They are frustrated and she included them in the discussion. They have zero affiliation with Joe D. He has no influence over FF's. We have , as a county, the most career FF's in the state i believe and yet we have no fire training academy. He is no friend to the fire service
She voted for the very thing she claims to be against, and is lying through her teeth. I’m sorry that they’re not able to see that they’re being played
Jbird, here's my take on this. Our board has kept the FD on a starvation diet for 20 years. If the report is correct there has not been much advanced training or professional development offered to you all. My hope is that rather than give us all tax breaks we can maintain funding higher than the bare minimum after the merger to pay for the support and training you guys deserve.
Does anyone dare to step directly onto the SOFD's turf? I don't think I have the patience to do so - diplomatically (which is crucial).
https://www.facebook.com/sofdnj/
jbird said:
jerseyjack Joe D will, and has, done nothing for FF's. Voted with Christie to cut pensions while he follows a loop hole to collect TWO pensions.
Traditionally, FF's in Map/SO have not been included in this discussion of consolidating the fire departments. This has been a topic for 30 years, yes thirty. We always supported consolidation. We asked for a seat at the negotiation table and were not given one by the Maplewood or South Orange governing bodies. I was on the shared services committee for the Maplewood FD along with friends of mine from the SOFD. We asked if we could attend the "shared services" meetings between the two towns. WE were not invited. The discussions were not productive. You definitely had the feeling that the talks were for "show". Nothing substantive. One representative, who is no longer serving, did not know that both towns had full time career FD's. "You work on Christmas?!" was one comment, " "what color are your Fire Trucks ?" was another. It is discouraging when you realize you are a pawn.
I get it, and I would be worked up too if I were in your (or their) shoes. but understand, we are all pawns manipulated by our employers. How many rank and file employees of the average company are consulted when a company merges / relocates / closes?
OhHenry said:
Does anyone dare to step directly onto the SOFD's turf? I don't think I have the patience to do so - diplomatically (which is crucial).
https://www.facebook.com/sofdnj/
Michael Goldberg tried and they did not want to engage with him.
Filmcarp Don't know how to take that! Thank you for a common sense suggestion. Those are things discussed at contract time and they do not make it past discussion. All of NJ is on a tight budget to say the least. I am an Essex County homeowner myself. Consolidation makes sense. In NJ , unfortunately, their are too many kingdoms and change is difficult to say the least.
Red barchetta The Firefighters are not naive. They wanted their voice to be heard. Rank and file from average companies do not pledge their life
jbird said:
Filmcarp Don't know how to take that! Thank you for a common sense suggestion. Those are things discussed at contract time and they do not make it past discussion. All of NJ is on a tight budget to say the least. I am an Essex County homeowner myself. Consolidation makes sense. In NJ , unfortunately, their are too many kingdoms and change is difficult to say the least.
Red barchetta The Firefighters are not naive. They wanted their voice to be heard. Rank and file from average companies do not pledge their life
The taxpayers are also not naive. We can both honor our firefighters for the risks they are willing to bear and recognize that they are as prone to workplace politics and self-interest as the rest of us. Personally, I think they could have had their seat at the table without being pivotal parts of a dreadful campaign, and am sad that they (or their union) chose this path.
Maybe it’s true they wouldn’t still get a seat at the table, but what I’m perplexed about is what FFs actually DO want if given a chair to slide up with. While it’s clear that it’s within their right to complain about potential aspects of an agreement, it’s not enough to simply say “not this” if at the table.
Trustee Mark Rosner Set the Record Straight on the Fire Department Merger
"In a debate-turned-town-hall on Tuesday night, South Orange Village President candidate Deborah Davis Ford asserted that two other Village Trustees besides herself have found fault with the process to merge South Orange and Maplewood fire departments. Davis Ford stated that she, however, was the sole Trustee to have the fortitude to stand up and call out Village President Sheena Collum.
Not so fast, says Trustee Mark Rosner.
In a phone call today, Village Green reached out to Rosner about this characterization as Rosner, along with Trustee Howard Levison, had publicly advocated for greater control for South Orange in the merger discussions. In short, Rosner contested Davis Ford’s assertion and then went on to refute or contest information put forward by Davis Ford’s campaign point by point.
Rosner said he took issue with the SO Forward campaign — led by Davis Ford — calling a jointly funded study of a South Orange/Maplewood fire department merger “Sheena’s report” (the flier actually labels it as the “Collum plan”).
Rosner said, “This is ridiculous.” He noted that the six Village Trustees — including Davis Ford — voted to join Maplewood on funding the study and adopting it. He noted that Collum, as Village President, “didn’t even vote” on the study.
Regarding a SO Forward talking point that the South Orange firehouse on Sloan Street would be reduced from 8 to 3 firefighters per shift, Rosner said, “At no point in time did the board consider 3 firefighters. That was one of the recommendations [of the Manitou report] but the Board of Trustees and Sheena right away said, ‘We need six and preferred seven.'”
Rosner continued, “Also the 8 that we have now is a mythical number.” He said that between vacations, sick days and being short of staff, “7 is the reality.”
Rosner also responded to an assertion in SO Forward’s first flier that purported, “We must protect the good union jobs of the firefighters who live in our neighborhoods. The Collum plan would leave our safety in the hands of fewer firefighters who live elsewhere.”
“Most firefighters don’t live in South Orange,” said Rosner. “Most have a connection one way or the other but that’s true of any job. People wind up moving within a 30-minute radius.” Rosner said that the residency of firefighters “never came up in any discussion. Deborah never advocated for this.”
Regarding the SO Forward campaign’s assertion that Collum has been working in secret and keeping details of negotiations from the public, Rosner asserted, “My initial reaction is whenever you have a negotiation you don’t want to have it in public. You want to have it with the negotiating committee.”
Nonetheless, Rosner said, “We gave updates on a regular basis. Actually, Sheena was very up front and released accurate information on a regular basis.”
He also stated that firefighters and Fire Chief Danny Sullivan have been involved.
“Usually you don’t go to rank and file, you go to the management,” said Rosner. “The fire chief was included in some of those discussions.” In addition, Rosner said, “I know that some of the firefighters have been given information all along in the process.”
Regarding the issue of joint meeting — Davis Ford has insisted that she brought up and championed this structure while Collum did not — Rosner contends that South Orange counsel Steve Rother “raised it first.”
“When we were at an impasse on the governance, we didn’t want to turn it over [to Maplewood]. We wanted an equal governance, and joint meeting is the solution if Maplewood can get past the civil service issue. We’re working with the state to accomplish that.”
“The joint meeting suggestion came from Steve Rother and Sheena and [Trustee] Howie [Levison] both embraced it and the full board embraced it,” said Rosner.
Regarding cost savings from a merger, Rosner said, “The overtime has potential for big savings but in the long run, the goal is to at least improve services for some savings. We don’t expect [savings] to be huge.” More importantly, said Rosner, a merged fire department “would be a more efficient department. No firefighter is going to lose a job. The savings are with equipment, training, overtime. Those are all issues that wouldn’t go away unless you can merge the departments.”
Rosner said he had told both Collum and Davis Ford at that beginning of the campaign that he would not be endorsing either because of his longstanding good working relationship with both.
However, Rosner told Village Green today, he was “disappointed in the tone of the fliers” sent by Davis Ford’s campaign."
basil said:
can somebody share the two establishments in question here? Boycotting is a lot easier if you know who
They were both mentioned by name by Soda.
Honestly, I’ve had better Joes for half the price. I still mourn the loss of Scott’s, but there are other good ones around also.
And Bunny’s food is fine, but nothing unusual in this part of the world.
I received a mailer from DDF/SO Forward today that says "A proposed plan to give up our fire department would cut the number of firefighters per shift in half."
This is what Mark Rosner has to say about that:
"Regarding a SO Forward talking point that the South Orange firehouse on Sloan Street would be reduced from 8 to 3 firefighters per shift, Rosner said, “At no point in time did the board consider 3 firefighters. That was one of the recommendations [of the Manitou report] but the Board of Trustees and Sheena right away said, ‘We need six and preferred seven.'”
"Regarding the issue of joint meeting — Davis Ford has insisted that she brought up and championed this structure while Collum did not — Rosner contends that South Orange counsel Steve Rother “raised it first.”
“When we were at an impasse on the governance, we didn’t want to turn it over [to Maplewood]. We wanted an equal governance, and joint meeting is the solution if Maplewood can get past the civil service issue. We’re working with the state to accomplish that.”
“The joint meeting suggestion came from Steve Rother and Sheena and [Trustee] Howie [Levison] both embraced it and the full board embraced it,” said Rosner."
FilmCarp said:
Thats a good statement by Rosner, who has no skin in the game.
Yes, I've worked with him on several projects in the Village over the years, and he's a class act.
cramer said:
Trustee Mark Rosner Set the Record Straight on the Fire Department Merger
"In a debate-turned-town-hall on Tuesday night, South Orange Village President candidate Deborah Davis Ford asserted that two other Village Trustees besides herself have found fault with the process to merge South Orange and Maplewood fire departments. Davis Ford stated that she, however, was the sole Trustee to have the fortitude to stand up and call out Village President Sheena Collum.
Not so fast, says Trustee Mark Rosner.
In a phone call today, Village Green reached out to Rosner about this characterization as Rosner, along with Trustee Howard Levison, had publicly advocated for greater control for South Orange in the merger discussions. In short, Rosner contested Davis Ford’s assertion and then went on to refute or contest information put forward by Davis Ford’s campaign point by point.
Rosner said he took issue with the SO Forward campaign — led by Davis Ford — calling a jointly funded study of a South Orange/Maplewood fire department merger “Sheena’s report” (the flier actually labels it as the “Collum plan”).
Rosner said, “This is ridiculous.” He noted that the six Village Trustees — including Davis Ford — voted to join Maplewood on funding the study and adopting it. He noted that Collum, as Village President, “didn’t even vote” on the study.
Regarding a SO Forward talking point that the South Orange firehouse on Sloan Street would be reduced from 8 to 3 firefighters per shift, Rosner said, “At no point in time did the board consider 3 firefighters. That was one of the recommendations [of the Manitou report] but the Board of Trustees and Sheena right away said, ‘We need six and preferred seven.'”
Rosner continued, “Also the 8 that we have now is a mythical number.” He said that between vacations, sick days and being short of staff, “7 is the reality.”
Rosner also responded to an assertion in SO Forward’s first flier that purported, “We must protect the good union jobs of the firefighters who live in our neighborhoods. The Collum plan would leave our safety in the hands of fewer firefighters who live elsewhere.”
“Most firefighters don’t live in South Orange,” said Rosner. “Most have a connection one way or the other but that’s true of any job. People wind up moving within a 30-minute radius.” Rosner said that the residency of firefighters “never came up in any discussion. Deborah never advocated for this.”
Regarding the SO Forward campaign’s assertion that Collum has been working in secret and keeping details of negotiations from the public, Rosner asserted, “My initial reaction is whenever you have a negotiation you don’t want to have it in public. You want to have it with the negotiating committee.”
Nonetheless, Rosner said, “We gave updates on a regular basis. Actually, Sheena was very up front and released accurate information on a regular basis.”
He also stated that firefighters and Fire Chief Danny Sullivan have been involved.
“Usually you don’t go to rank and file, you go to the management,” said Rosner. “The fire chief was included in some of those discussions.” In addition, Rosner said, “I know that some of the firefighters have been given information all along in the process.”
Regarding the issue of joint meeting — Davis Ford has insisted that she brought up and championed this structure while Collum did not — Rosner contends that South Orange counsel Steve Rother “raised it first.”
“When we were at an impasse on the governance, we didn’t want to turn it over [to Maplewood]. We wanted an equal governance, and joint meeting is the solution if Maplewood can get past the civil service issue. We’re working with the state to accomplish that.”
“The joint meeting suggestion came from Steve Rother and Sheena and [Trustee] Howie [Levison] both embraced it and the full board embraced it,” said Rosner.
Regarding cost savings from a merger, Rosner said, “The overtime has potential for big savings but in the long run, the goal is to at least improve services for some savings. We don’t expect [savings] to be huge.” More importantly, said Rosner, a merged fire department “would be a more efficient department. No firefighter is going to lose a job. The savings are with equipment, training, overtime. Those are all issues that wouldn’t go away unless you can merge the departments.”
Rosner said he had told both Collum and Davis Ford at that beginning of the campaign that he would not be endorsing either because of his longstanding good working relationship with both.
However, Rosner told Village Green today, he was “disappointed in the tone of the fliers” sent by Davis Ford’s campaign."
https://villagegreennj.com/election/south-orange-trustee-rosner-sets-record-straight-on-fire-department-merger/
Makes me wish Rosner would change his mind about retiring.
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What is the main dishonest and unethical stuff? Can you summarize?
Asking because I honestly don’t know as I haven’t been following and I don’t do Facebook.