Amazing opinion piece in NY Times

“Covert Coup” Revealed in Anonymous NYT Op-Ed Is a Threat, Much Like Trump

nan said:
“Covert Coup” Revealed in Anonymous NYT Op-Ed Is a Threat, Much Like Trump

 no doubt. There is a remedy for removing this president. But these "resistors" are refusing to use the 25th Amendment. 

Because on a lot of issues of importance to them, Trump is a useful idiot.

Let us assume that Trump is actually insane and his insanity could result in his doing something that would result in massive catastrophic deaths. Let us further assume that the VP either does not see this or is too cowardly to act and that the same is true of Congressional "leadership".

What should be done?

The Duran weighs in and says it is the Deep State:

Wow another whackjob - nan where do you find these people?  Please tell me this isn't another one of your "News sources".

OMG - had to look this up Alex Christoforou writes for Russia News Now.  https://www.therussophile.org/author/alex-christoforou/

NAN - PLEASE STOP USING RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA NEWS SOURCES!!!

jamie, 

Are you feeling unhinged these days? I don't even agree with 90% of what these guys say and I did not know one of them has some Russian connection. I thought it was just right-wing, Trump supporter stuff, but more educated. Thought I would put in a different view just so we could respond to a greater range.

I read lots of material, including sources I don't agree with. If you know what you are talking about you should not be threatened by other people's ideas. I agreed with what they said about Trump and war, and much about the op ed. I did not agree about Trump fulfilling the promises he campaigned about. They have to be lying about that cause it obviously not true. 

Anyway, will you calm down withe neo-McCarthy BS, please?  Do you want a message board with all establishment Democrats agreeing? Sounds kinda boring to me.

nan said:
jamie, are you feeling unginged these days? I don't even agree with 90% of what these guys say and I did not know one of them has some Russian connection. I thought it was just right-wing, Trump supporter stuff, but more educated.  I read lots of material, including views I don't agree with. If you know what you are talking about you should not be threatened by other people's ideas. I agreed with what they said about Trump and war, and much about the op ed. I did not agree about Trump fufilling the promises he campaigned about. They have to be lying about that cause it obviously not true. Anyway, will you calm down withe neo-McCarthy BS, please?  Do you want a message board with all establishment Democrats agreeing? Kinda boring, to me.

 I suspect Jamie would like a board where people post differing opinions based on reliable information from reputable sources. Not to mention that personal attacks seem to only get complained about in one direction...just sayin'.

ml1 said:

nan said:
“Covert Coup” Revealed in Anonymous NYT Op-Ed Is a Threat, Much Like Trump

 no doubt. There is a remedy for removing this president. But these "resistors" are refusing to use the 25th Amendment. 
Because on a lot of issues of importance to them, Trump is a useful idiot.

The 25th is useless because to complete the process the assent of 2/3 of the House and of the Senate is needed.

Impeachment is easier, a lower bar where only 1/2 of the House has to assent.

Dennis_Seelbach said:

nan said:
jamie, are you feeling unginged these days? I don't even agree with 90% of what these guys say and I did not know one of them has some Russian connection. I thought it was just right-wing, Trump supporter stuff, but more educated.  I read lots of material, including views I don't agree with. If you know what you are talking about you should not be threatened by other people's ideas. I agreed with what they said about Trump and war, and much about the op ed. I did not agree about Trump fufilling the promises he campaigned about. They have to be lying about that cause it obviously not true. Anyway, will you calm down withe neo-McCarthy BS, please?  Do you want a message board with all establishment Democrats agreeing? Kinda boring, to me.

 I suspect Jamie would like a board where people post differing opinions based on reliable information from reputable sources. Not to mention that personal attacks seem to only get complained about in one direction...just sayin'.

 If he wants reliable sources than CNN/MSNBC and the NYTs are out the door.  They have all had to apologize for some big blunders, including fake wars will over a million died.  You cannot be an informed person and get all of your news from mainstream media.  You should listen to what is being said and respond to ideas, not automatically dismiss everything based on a narrow range of permitted views.

nan said:
The Duran weighs in and says it is the Deep State:

 Two thoughts -

1.  The whole concept of "the Deep State" as an all-purpose explanation has jumped the shark if Trump Administration officials, who came in with him, are now counted as part of the "Deep State".

2.  If you watch this on YouTube, there's a Trump-sponsored ad before it plays, so they know their audience.  See screen shot -

nan - just do proper vetting on your “sources” - you’re falling prey to a lot of Kremlin propaganda 

BG9 said:

ml1 said:

nan said:
“Covert Coup” Revealed in Anonymous NYT Op-Ed Is a Threat, Much Like Trump

 no doubt. There is a remedy for removing this president. But these "resistors" are refusing to use the 25th Amendment. 
Because on a lot of issues of importance to them, Trump is a useful idiot.

The 25th is useless because to complete the process the assent of 2/3 of the House and of the Senate is needed.
Impeachment is easier, a lower bar where only 1/2 of the House has to assent.

 if the cabinet brought a proclamation to Congress stating that the president is not capable, I would think even Republicans would be more inclined to pay attention to that than articles of impeachment. Either way, that's the proper process. Participating in a soft coup is not 

nan said:
jamie, 
Are you feeling unhinged these days? I don't even agree with 90% of what these guys say and I did not know one of them has some Russian connection. I thought it was just right-wing, Trump supporter stuff, but more educated. Thought I would put in a different view just so we could respond to a greater range.
I read lots of material, including sources I don't agree with. If you know what you are talking about you should not be threatened by other people's ideas. I agreed with what they said about Trump and war, and much about the op ed. I did not agree about Trump fulfilling the promises he campaigned about. They have to be lying about that cause it obviously not true. 
Anyway, will you calm down withe neo-McCarthy BS, please?  Do you want a message board with all establishment Democrats agreeing? Sounds kinda boring to me.
 

 Ok, so you would have us read/ listen to news that you don’t necessarily agree with?  Is that correct?  

I don’t think any of us here are threatened by (reading or hearing) other peoples ideas. For me It comes to this:  you have no credibility.  I never follow any of your links.  Your recommendation for any piece of news is an immediate disqualifier for my attention.   

Certainly there are posters here willing to digest what you present; I am not one of them.  I am thankful that they are here and generous with their time as again and again they reveal the true value of what you consider relevant.  

ridski said:
It’s all good. You’re one of my favorite posters here, I’m glad your back.

 Aw, thanks, you too.

I've definitely cut back on my posting. I only log in with my laptop (no phone posting for me), which slows down my posting (for the better, I think -- good to have a "speed bump" between reading and replying IMO), but also, tbh, my social media habits have changed since the election -- I felt very unmotivated to go online much for a while after it, but at this point I'm not sure that's such a bad thing -- this pace feels healthier.

nohero said:

nan said:
The Duran weighs in and says it is the Deep State:

 Two thoughts -
1.  The whole concept of "the Deep State" as an all-purpose explanation has jumped the shark if Trump Administration officials, who came in with him, are now counted as part of the "Deep State".
2.  If you watch this on YouTube, there's a Trump-sponsored ad before it plays, so they know their audience.  See screen shot -

1. Yeah, they seem to have expanded the definition.  The piece does sound like something I imagine the "Deep State" to write, but I have no idea how that would work. When I read the piece I thought at first that it was fake and maybe by the Onion.  It seems like maybe written by a committee or something.  But, I really don't know. I'm hoping someday to have the mystery solved. In the meantime, I think it's helpful to hear everyone's theory.  

2. The ads on YouTube do not necessarily correlate with the videos.  I get lots of right-wing videos before videos for Progressives like Jimmy Dore and Kyle Kulinski.  I especially hate Michelle Malkin and there is one of her calling immigrants unwelcome that seems to come up a lot.  You would think they would coordinate that, but not on my page.  But, anyway, that video was from a conservative sight, that I have looked at occasionally over the years.  I have found that they sometimes have interesting videos with anti-war themes.  Being anti-war, I have had to expand the range of people I listen to since establishment Democrats seem to be increasingly fond of neocon warhawks and the intelligence community and are deathly afraid of non-western news sources. Some Libertarians and Republicans are also anti-interventionists and I feel I can connect with them on that single issue.  

jamie said:
nan - just do proper vetting on your “sources” - you’re falling prey to a lot of Kremlin propaganda 

 No I am not.  What do you think I have posted that is "Kremlin propaganda?"  I stand by my assertion that Bill Browder is a fake, and I have posted much evidence from non-Kremlin sources to demonstrate that. The interviews I posted on Sputnik radio were of non-Kremlin people. I cannot post mainstream sources because they give Browder a free pass to lie and he helps boost the anti-Russia propaganda that fills the mainstream media.   Chris Hedges is also not even close to Kremlin propaganda.  I don't think "The Duran" is that either, although I could only trace them to Cyprus, but I was not posting that video to defend my point of view--only to share another guess about the op ed writer.  It's not like any of us have confidently identified the author--might as well listen to some other theories, right?  

Red_Barchetta said:

nan said:
jamie, 
Are you feeling unhinged these days? I don't even agree with 90% of what these guys say and I did not know one of them has some Russian connection. I thought it was just right-wing, Trump supporter stuff, but more educated. Thought I would put in a different view just so we could respond to a greater range.
I read lots of material, including sources I don't agree with. If you know what you are talking about you should not be threatened by other people's ideas. I agreed with what they said about Trump and war, and much about the op ed. I did not agree about Trump fulfilling the promises he campaigned about. They have to be lying about that cause it obviously not true. 
Anyway, will you calm down withe neo-McCarthy BS, please?  Do you want a message board with all establishment Democrats agreeing? Sounds kinda boring to me.
 

 Ok, so you would have us read/ listen to news that you don’t necessarily agree with?  Is that correct?  


I don’t think any of us here are threatened by (reading or hearing) other peoples ideas. For me It comes to this:  you have no credibility.  I never follow any of your links.  Your recommendation for any piece of news is an immediate disqualifier for my attention.   


Certainly there are posters here willing to digest what you present; I am not one of them.  I am thankful that they are here and generous with their time as again and again they reveal the true value of what you consider relevant.  

 If you don't read any  of my links or posts, than you have not understood my ideas and you are just attacking me because of some personal prejudice.  Why don't you just ignore me instead?  I think that would be a better response.  

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/08/reader-center/anonymous-op-ed-trump.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

nan said:

I cannot post mainstream sources because they give Browder a free pass to lie and he helps boost the anti-Russia propaganda that fills the mainstream media.   

 Putin thanks you for this!  Bashing the MSM is a huge part of their MO.  Hence the reason why they cling on to the fringe leftists.  I would say bashing the MSM is close to their #1 objective - it weakens our democracy and divides the country.  Trump is also heavily on-board with the Putin agenda.  This has been a huge part of the problem.

jamie said:

nan said:I cannot post mainstream sources because they give Browder a free pass to lie and he helps boost the anti-Russia propaganda that fills the mainstream media.   

 Putin thanks you for this!  Bashing the MSM is a huge part of their MO.  Hence the reason why they cling on to the fringe leftists.  I would say bashing the MSM is close to their #1 objective - it weakens our democracy and divides the country.  Trump is also heavily on-board with the Putin agenda.  This has been a huge part of the problem.

The MSM deserves to be bashed, and you don't need to drag Putin in as the cause.  They lie to us all the time, glorify war, and ignore important stories.  Did you not see how MSNBC did not mention the war in Yemen for a year?  Since the 1990's the number of media outlets has shrunk and the range of voices heard limited.  Most of the experts on CNN/MSNBC are neocons, establishment democrats, ex-military/CIA or conservative think tanks.  Anyone who listens to MSM without supplemental news will think the US is in charge of the world and always has everyone's best interests and that Russia is controlling our elections and getting ready to take over.  There will be no mention of US NATO forces on the Russian border (which were not supposed to be there) or US involvement in the Ukrainian coup (when John McCain was hanging with and promoting the Nazis that replaced the democratically elected leader).  No Glenn Greenwald, Ralph Nadar, Chis Hedges, Noam Chomsky, etc.  Back in the day , all of these used to be on news regularly.  Now it is corporate manufactured consent.  I'm not telling you to not watch it, but you should be more skeptical and supplement with independent and non-Western media.  All news is biased so you need to understand where it comes from, but that does not mean it is wrong or propaganda--or it could be--but, when it comes to propaganda, the US mainstream news is not better than RT.   

I don't agree that Trump is on-board with the Putin agenda.  He keeps these baseless sanctions, he sold arms to the Ukraine, and he bombed Syria.  These are not things that Putin wants or needs.  He does seem to have some kind of man-crush on the guy, I will give you that, but being a crazy narcissist, it must be incredible to think you are meeting with the head of Russia to talk about world events when you are a total idiot.  As for democracy--we don't have one.  We have an oligarchy/plutocracy that is supported by the MSM--another reason to expand your viewing range.

Trump would have overturned the sanctions in a heartbeat if he didn't have opposition on both sides.

"Expand viewing range" - by Russia backed new agencies - no thank you.  

I'd like to see the proof that MSNBC didn't mention the Yemen war for a year. (Is that because I remember when Nan claimed they hadn't covered it and was immediately proven wrong? Perhaps.)

jamie said:
Trump would have overturned the sanctions in a heartbeat if he didn't have opposition on both sides.
"Expand viewing range" - by Russia backed new agencies - no thank you.  

 He should overturn the sanctions--since they are based on a lie.  He might want us to have a better relationship with Russia, which is a good thing.  Of course Trump is not a humanistic do-gooder or caring about anyone other than himself, but he might want some Moscow Trump Towers or more shady business deals.  But, I don't think he is controlled by Putin.

dave23 said:
I'd like to see the proof that MSNBC didn't mention the Yemen war for a year. (Is that because I remember when Nan claimed they hadn't covered it and was immediately proven wrong? Perhaps.)

 I don't think I was the one to claim it--but when questioned it was proven right.

I liked this section of the speech.

Oh, I am here to tell you that even if you don't agree with me or Democrats on policy, even if you believe in more Libertarian economic theories, even if you are an evangelical and our position on certain social issues is a bridge too far, even if you think my assessment of immigration is mistaken and that Democrats aren't serious enough about immigration enforcement, I'm here to tell you that you should still be concerned with our current course and should still want to see a restoration of honesty and decency and lawfulness in our government.

nan said:

dave23 said:
I'd like to see the proof that MSNBC didn't mention the Yemen war for a year. (Is that because I remember when Nan claimed they hadn't covered it and was immediately proven wrong? Perhaps.)

 I don't think I was the one to claim it--but when questioned it was proven right.

 Ok. Looking forward to the proof that they haven't mentioned it in more than a year. (Don't simply echo people who claim that. Do the work.)

nan said:

 Of course Trump is not a humanistic do-gooder or caring about anyone other than himself, but he might want some Moscow Trump Towers or more shady business deals.  But, I don't think he is controlled by Putin.

 Could you at least acknowledge that Russian oligarchs laundered a ton of cash through Trump properties?

jamie said:

nan said:

 Of course Trump is not a humanistic do-gooder or caring about anyone other than himself, but he might want some Moscow Trump Towers or more shady business deals.  But, I don't think he is controlled by Putin.

 Could you at least acknowledge that Russian oligarchs laundered a ton of cash through Trump properties?

I don't know, quite possible since I think of Trump as a crook, but I'm not a fan of Russian oligarchs, especially Mikil Khordorkovsky, who would be worse than Putin if he succeeded in his goal of replacing him.  

dave23 said:

nan said:

dave23 said:
I'd like to see the proof that MSNBC didn't mention the Yemen war for a year. (Is that because I remember when Nan claimed they hadn't covered it and was immediately proven wrong? Perhaps.)

 I don't think I was the one to claim it--but when questioned it was proven right.

 Ok. Looking forward to the proof that they haven't mentioned it in more than a year. (Don't simply echo people who claim that. Do the work.)

 This was already proven on line by someone else. I'm not going to reinvent the wheel.  

Here is an article:  https://fair.org/home/msnbc-yemen-russia-coverage-2017/