Won't Get Fooled Again
Apr 7, 2015 at 6:48pm Edited
From Tom Paxton.................for those who give more than lip service to Green
Never give up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msKYLHwqvW4
Never give up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msKYLHwqvW4
I wasnt at the meeting so I can not comment on the behavior of the TC. But I would like to point out that Maplewood has a population on 24,000 people withI think over 5000 voting in a typical township election.
So I would have to agree that a petition with 500 signatures and a room full of people might not represent the will of the town.
So I would have to agree that a petition with 500 signatures and a room full of people might not represent the will of the town.
There was a packed meeting to meet the new superintendent at the same time as the TC meeting.
Why would anyone waste their time going to a meeting to speak in favor of something that's going to happen anyway? It passed 5-0, as everyone knew it would. I stayed home and watched Mad Men.
sarahzm said:
I wasnt at the meeting so I can not comment on the behavior of the TC. But I would like to point out that Maplewood has a population on 24,000 people withI think over 5000 voting in a typical township election.
So I would have to agree that a petition with 500 signatures and a room full of people might not represent the will of the town.
SO do the five TC member represent the will of the town? Really!!
WildCadillac said:
sarahzm said:
I wasnt at the meeting so I can not comment on the behavior of the TC. But I would like to point out that Maplewood has a population on 24,000 people withI think over 5000 voting in a typical township election.
So I would have to agree that a petition with 500 signatures and a room full of people might not represent the will of the town.
SO do the five TC member represent the will of the town? Really!!
Well, they represent the people of Maplewood WHO VOTED FOR THEM.
According to the article in the Village Green there were more than 50 people in attendance and over a dozen who spoke.
That's not an overwhelming number. I saw more people than that at the Parkwood Diner 2 weeks ago. I've seen more people than that squeezed on line at Kings before a snowstorm.
So you have the five members of the TC , who were voted for by the people of Maplewood to make decisions on their behalf.
And you have 12 speakers and 50 people in attendance ( out of a town of 23,000 people) who represent who exactly ??
The Maplewood TC: Their love of mediocrity is only matched by their lack of imagination.
Apr 8, 2015 at 1:47am Edited
Sure thing Alison, You're going to train me? I'll need a lot of training. But thanks for the offer.
But based on what I witnessed last night, there's no doubt in my mind that the town needs new leadership, and presto.
But based on what I witnessed last night, there's no doubt in my mind that the town needs new leadership, and presto.
@rastaquere, I think you need to lay off on the insults or I suspect @dave will ban you.
Frank.................your statement about a TC meeting and you watching Mad Men is just begging for a
a pun. In another time and another place I would supply it.
a pun. In another time and another place I would supply it.
Yes............but it can only be instituted in tandem with the November elections.
Apr 8, 2015 at 3:56am Edited
The TC members each gave very reasonable rationales for why they voted to move forward.
And they made the right decision.
Regarding the number of people who came out to speak against the proposal... "you have 12 speakers and 50 people in attendance" according to a post above... that is really a trivial number given the importance of this issue to the village. One should take from this the fact that most folks in town are either in favor of the development or don't feel strongly about it.
And before anyone claims that we have an apathetic or uninformed citizenry:
Recall when Fred Profeta was proposing to claim a well-used portion of Orchard Park for a community garden that would have benefitted only a few people - the turnout at the TC meeting when that vote was taken was HUGE (I recall the police were called in the aftermath of the vote becasue the outrage was so strong and involved so many people).
Also recall when Fred and the Green Team were pushing the "Pay as you throw" proposal... the TC meeting room was packed for a public meeting, standing room only, with large numbers of people both in favor and against.
Even a lot more than 12 people came out multiple times to speak about Fred's chicken coop proposal.
(I'm actually surprised that nobody has yet proposed repurposing the post office as a community chicken coop - that makes about as much sense as some of the other proposals)
So, Maplewood has a solid recent history of citizen activism and participation on issues where large numbers of residents have really strong feelings.
Why hasn't this issue caught fire with a lot more people? Either the silent majority is comfortable with the proposal, or folks who would have been inclined to get involved have been turned off by the tactics of and lack of constructive, actionable input from the small, vocal opposition.
And they made the right decision.
Regarding the number of people who came out to speak against the proposal... "you have 12 speakers and 50 people in attendance" according to a post above... that is really a trivial number given the importance of this issue to the village. One should take from this the fact that most folks in town are either in favor of the development or don't feel strongly about it.
And before anyone claims that we have an apathetic or uninformed citizenry:
Recall when Fred Profeta was proposing to claim a well-used portion of Orchard Park for a community garden that would have benefitted only a few people - the turnout at the TC meeting when that vote was taken was HUGE (I recall the police were called in the aftermath of the vote becasue the outrage was so strong and involved so many people).
Also recall when Fred and the Green Team were pushing the "Pay as you throw" proposal... the TC meeting room was packed for a public meeting, standing room only, with large numbers of people both in favor and against.
Even a lot more than 12 people came out multiple times to speak about Fred's chicken coop proposal.
(I'm actually surprised that nobody has yet proposed repurposing the post office as a community chicken coop - that makes about as much sense as some of the other proposals)
So, Maplewood has a solid recent history of citizen activism and participation on issues where large numbers of residents have really strong feelings.
Why hasn't this issue caught fire with a lot more people? Either the silent majority is comfortable with the proposal, or folks who would have been inclined to get involved have been turned off by the tactics of and lack of constructive, actionable input from the small, vocal opposition.
I remember at least one TC meeting moved to the CHS auditorium when the big tax reval was on the agenda a dozen or so years ago.
rastaquere said:
Back from my first Maplewood TC meeting, and left disgusted by the experience.
Of the large audience present not one speaker spoke in favor of the current Post office development proposal. Not one.
All who spoke, one after the other, spoke against it, for all the various reasons known to everyone by now.
What was the answer of the TC? Contemptuous dismissal, telling the residents who spoke that they do not represent the town.
I wonder what they will say if a majority of people showed up a the town meeting agreeing with them? That they do represent the town?
What a load of offensive crap. So much for democracy in Maplewood.
Won't Get Fooled Again. Long Live Rock and Roll!
It has happened before (The Old Police Station) and it will happen again. The people speaking out against it are simply thought as a minor obstacle that the TC and developer have to get past.
Next time don't vote for Vic DeLuca.
Apparently the voice of the People is just an annoyance which the TC must tolerate.
Out of curiosity though.............How many people have spoken in favor of the proposed building?
I count one.
Out of curiosity though.............How many people have spoken in favor of the proposed building?
I count one.
ICE ICE BABY!
3 cheers to the TC! The new building will be a big improvement to our downtown area!
Goodbye old PO building!
3 cheers to the TC! The new building will be a big improvement to our downtown area!
Goodbye old PO building!
It seems like people think that the town committee has some alternate agenda with regard to the development of the post office site. There have been organizational meetings and open forums for well
over two years. It almost seems as if some people think there is some back channel negotiations going on. Everything has been presented in a thoughtful and respectful way. Everyone who wanted to (and did)
express their opinions did (some twice). Let's remember that these positions on the town committee are basically voluntary and these people are giving up their time to make Maplewood a better town for everyone. Not everyone is going to agree with everything- that's the sacrifice of true democracy. With regard to the PILOT program, it's not as if developers were knocking down the doors to get this project;
as in any deal there needs to be incentive. A lot of this discussion could have been avoided if proponents of repurposing had a plan-any plan to present. There still is not one repurposing proposal- just thoughts.
Let's not be like South Orange who took five years to repair the fire house on Sloan Street or the condition
of their town hall. In the interest of transparency, my wife and I have lived in Maplewood since 1983 and raised our two children here and I personally thought something should have been done to improve the
appearance of the post office then. I admire the passion of the opponents of the development but at the
TC meeting last night there were less than 50 people out of 24,000 that live in Maplewood (.2%). Even if you count all the people who signed the petition that only brings it up to 2%. Let's move forward.
over two years. It almost seems as if some people think there is some back channel negotiations going on. Everything has been presented in a thoughtful and respectful way. Everyone who wanted to (and did)
express their opinions did (some twice). Let's remember that these positions on the town committee are basically voluntary and these people are giving up their time to make Maplewood a better town for everyone. Not everyone is going to agree with everything- that's the sacrifice of true democracy. With regard to the PILOT program, it's not as if developers were knocking down the doors to get this project;
as in any deal there needs to be incentive. A lot of this discussion could have been avoided if proponents of repurposing had a plan-any plan to present. There still is not one repurposing proposal- just thoughts.
Let's not be like South Orange who took five years to repair the fire house on Sloan Street or the condition
of their town hall. In the interest of transparency, my wife and I have lived in Maplewood since 1983 and raised our two children here and I personally thought something should have been done to improve the
appearance of the post office then. I admire the passion of the opponents of the development but at the
TC meeting last night there were less than 50 people out of 24,000 that live in Maplewood (.2%). Even if you count all the people who signed the petition that only brings it up to 2%. Let's move forward.
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Of the large audience present not one speaker spoke in favor of the current Post office development proposal. Not one.
All who spoke, one after the other, spoke against it, for all the various reasons known to everyone by now.
What was the answer of the TC? Contemptuous dismissal, telling the residents who spoke that they do not represent the town.
I wonder what they will say if a majority of people showed up a the town meeting agreeing with them? That they do represent the town?
What a load of offensive crap. So much for democracy in Maplewood.
Won't Get Fooled Again. Long Live Rock and Roll!