The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Off to the races

mtierney said:


The president said the pandemic is over on 60 Minutes. Good to know.

I don't know what Biden said on 60 Minutes, but why am I convinced this is probably an oversimplification that borders on an untruth?


yup, an oversimplification:

"The pandemic is over," Biden told CBS' Scott Pelley. "We still have a problem with COVID. We're still doing a lot of work on it ... but the pandemic is over."

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

I'll play dueling research reports. I don't think this sounds all that great, to be honest. Do you?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0927537121000348

"Many progressive American policy analysts point to Denmark as a model welfare state with low levels of income inequality and high levels of social mobility in income across generations. It has in place many social policies now advocated for adoption in the U.S.: free college tuition, universal access to high-quality health care, equality of per pupil expenditures across all neighborhoods, universal high-quality pre-K, and generous childcare and maternity leave policy. In addition, there are well funded social security, disability, and unemployment programs in Denmark. Inequality in disposable income is much lower than in the U.S.

Yet, despite generous social policies, family influence on many child outcomes in Denmark is comparable to that in the U.S. Common forces are at work in both countries that are not easily mitigated by welfare state policies. Denmark achieves lower income inequality and greater intergenerational income mobility primarily through its tax and transfer programs and not by building the skills of children across generations and promoting their human potential more effectively.1

Despite the generosity of the Danish welfare state and equality in access for all citizens, substantial inequality of child outcomes remains across social and economic classes.

Denmark is a laboratory for understanding the origins of inequality and social immobility. In the U.S., inequalities in the public services that are universally provided at a high level in Denmark are major topics in discussions about promoting social mobility. However, if equal Danish provision of services does not eliminate inequality in many important life outcomes, the origins of inequality and social immobility lie elsewhere. Consequently, an uncritical adoption of Danish policy initiatives may not be effective as a way to ensure equality of opportunity."

so in response to the reports that people like PVW and I have linked to that look at hundreds of countries, and in response to your link above that looks at a similar number of countries and appears to refute your own point, you come back with a comparison to only Denmark?

Denmark was #1 on the list of the Global Social Mobility Index that you posted to support your argument. Numero uno. Should I disregard Denmark? If so, you should have specified that, though it would be kind of odd to toss the top name on your list.  

Also, the most recent report I cited states "Denmark is a laboratory for understanding the origins of inequality and social immobility."  Which to me suggests that other countries with similar policies, familial and social structures, etc would very likely share inequality and social mobility patterns.  Don't you think that Norway, Sweden and Finland (at least) would share many of the same inequality and social mobility limitations as highlighted by the Labour Economics report? Or do you think it's wholly unique to Denmark.

it looks only at social mobility. That's only one measure of the well-being of a country.  And I only posted that because you dragged the discussion into wealth and opportunity to make money as THE measure of well-being, even though many of us have tried to point out that well-being is not a synonym for money or the opportunity to make money.

Denmark is also consistently one of the happiest countries on earth. Can you put a $$$ value on that?  Or my earlier question:

you are arguing that having more money is the key measure of well-being. So I'll just stipulate to your point. Yeah, on average Americans have more money than people in almost every other country.

But we die earlier. We're more likely to die from homicide, suicide, overdose, or accident. We're generally less healthy.  Significant proportions of us can't afford health care or higher education. And we work A LOT more hours.

So we'll probably not even agree on what are important metrics of well-being. 

Except I never said money is THE measure of well-being. Nor did I say that having more money is the key measure of well-being. (And I know there are posters here who live for the gotcha, so I just reviewed and confirmed this. Knock yourself out if you wanna try.)

I've been saying all along that GDP per capita is a metric of economic opportunity which is closely related to well-being. 

You previously scoffed at my argument that per capita GDP was even AN indicator of opportunity (Sep 14 3:31 pm) ...I guess you're not holding that position anymore, but instead you've fallen back on a straw man argument and arguing against money being THE measure of well being. Well I don't know who you're arguing with there, bc it's not me. 

Ultimately I know it's important for you to portray yourself as a kind-hearted humanist and me as a greedy corporatist, like Tiny Tim and Scrooge, if you will. But please, if it's not there don't make stuff up.   


Smedley said:

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

ml1 said:

Smedley said:

I'll play dueling research reports. I don't think this sounds all that great, to be honest. Do you?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0927537121000348

"Many progressive American policy analysts point to Denmark as a model welfare state with low levels of income inequality and high levels of social mobility in income across generations. It has in place many social policies now advocated for adoption in the U.S.: free college tuition, universal access to high-quality health care, equality of per pupil expenditures across all neighborhoods, universal high-quality pre-K, and generous childcare and maternity leave policy. In addition, there are well funded social security, disability, and unemployment programs in Denmark. Inequality in disposable income is much lower than in the U.S.

Yet, despite generous social policies, family influence on many child outcomes in Denmark is comparable to that in the U.S. Common forces are at work in both countries that are not easily mitigated by welfare state policies. Denmark achieves lower income inequality and greater intergenerational income mobility primarily through its tax and transfer programs and not by building the skills of children across generations and promoting their human potential more effectively.1

Despite the generosity of the Danish welfare state and equality in access for all citizens, substantial inequality of child outcomes remains across social and economic classes.

Denmark is a laboratory for understanding the origins of inequality and social immobility. In the U.S., inequalities in the public services that are universally provided at a high level in Denmark are major topics in discussions about promoting social mobility. However, if equal Danish provision of services does not eliminate inequality in many important life outcomes, the origins of inequality and social immobility lie elsewhere. Consequently, an uncritical adoption of Danish policy initiatives may not be effective as a way to ensure equality of opportunity."

so in response to the reports that people like PVW and I have linked to that look at hundreds of countries, and in response to your link above that looks at a similar number of countries and appears to refute your own point, you come back with a comparison to only Denmark?

Denmark was #1 on the list of the Global Social Mobility Index that you posted to support your argument. Numero uno. Should I disregard Denmark? If so, you should have specified that, though it would be kind of odd to toss the top name on your list.  

Also, the most recent report I cited states "Denmark is a laboratory for understanding the origins of inequality and social immobility."  Which to me suggests that other countries with similar policies, familial and social structures, etc would very likely share inequality and social mobility patterns.  Don't you think that Norway, Sweden and Finland (at least) would share many of the same inequality and social mobility limitations as highlighted by the Labour Economics report? Or do you think it's wholly unique to Denmark.

it looks only at social mobility. That's only one measure of the well-being of a country.  And I only posted that because you dragged the discussion into wealth and opportunity to make money as THE measure of well-being, even though many of us have tried to point out that well-being is not a synonym for money or the opportunity to make money.

Denmark is also consistently one of the happiest countries on earth. Can you put a $$$ value on that?  Or my earlier question:

you are arguing that having more money is the key measure of well-being. So I'll just stipulate to your point. Yeah, on average Americans have more money than people in almost every other country.

But we die earlier. We're more likely to die from homicide, suicide, overdose, or accident. We're generally less healthy.  Significant proportions of us can't afford health care or higher education. And we work A LOT more hours.

So we'll probably not even agree on what are important metrics of well-being. 

Except I never said money is THE measure of well-being. Nor did I say that having more money is the key measure of well-being. (And I know there are posters here who live for the gotcha, so I just reviewed and confirmed this. Knock yourself out if you wanna try.)

I've been saying all along that GDP per capita is a metric of economic opportunity which is closely related to well-being. 

You previously scoffed at my argument that per capita GDP was even AN indicator of opportunity (Sep 14 3:31 pm) ...I guess you're not holding that position anymore, but instead you've fallen back on a straw man argument and arguing against money being THE measure of well being. Well I don't know who you're arguing with there, bc it's not me. 

Ultimately I know it's important for you to portray yourself as a kind-hearted humanist and me as a greedy corporatist, like Tiny Tim and Scrooge, if you will. But please, if it's not there don't make stuff up.   

you seem "know" a lot of things about me that aren't true.  

so you're NOT saying GDP is a measure of well-being, just that it's related to it? That was never clear to me, so mea culpa.  

now back to our regularly scheduled right wing cartoons...


mtierney said:

Will the First Amendment survive social media’s “crowd sourcing?”

https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/twitter-and-facebook-and-youtube

The president said the pandemic is over on 60 Minutes. Good to know.

The pandemic is almost over according to the WHO.

GENEVA (AP) — The head of the World Health Organization said Wednesday that the number of coronavirus deaths worldwide last week was the lowest reported in the pandemic since March 2020, marking what could be a turning point in the years-long global outbreak.

At a press briefing in Geneva, WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said the world has never been in a better position to stop COVID-19.

“We are not there yet, but the end is in sight,” he said, comparing the effort to that made by a marathon runner nearing the finish line. “Now is the worst time to stop running,” he said. “Now is the time to run harder and make sure we cross the line and reap all the rewards of our hard work.”

In its weekly report on the pandemic, the U.N. health agency said deaths fell by 22% in the past week, at just over 11,000 reported worldwide. There were 3.1 million new cases, a drop of 28%, continuing a weeks-long decline in the disease in every part of the world.

https://apnews.com/article/health-covid-geneva-pandemics-united-nations-38b887027e4277892747133fea0bfe21


ml1 said:

I don't know what Biden said on 60 Minutes, but why am I convinced this is probably an oversimplification that borders on an untruth?

His remarks have been widely discussed for two days, and I posted his quote this a.m. What is an “oversimplification” in your view? You assumed it just couldn’t have been a comment by the president, so you thought it had to have been  lie. Hundreds of people a day are still dying everyday.  

Biden also said if China  messes with Taiwan, America would step up. He said the same thing a few weeks ago, and had to quickly walk it back.


PVW said:

A person who supports Trump's deadly attempt to overturn the election, and ongoing GOP efforts to steal future elections, has no business talking about free speech and censorship.

So you do believe in censorship if it fits your parameters? 


mtierney said:

So you do believe in censorship if it fits your parameters? 

Violently overturning an election is censorship. It's beyond censorship. And you support this. So whenever you claim to care about free speech, it's clear you're a liar.


mtierney said:

ml1 said:

I don't know what Biden said on 60 Minutes, but why am I convinced this is probably an oversimplification that borders on an untruth?

His remarks have been widely discussed for two days, and I posted his quote this a.m. What is an “oversimplification” in your view? You assumed it just couldn’t have been a comment by the president, so you thought it had to have been  lie. Hundreds of people a day are still dying everyday.  

Biden also said if China  messes with Taiwan, America would step up. He said the same thing a few weeks ago, and had to quickly walk it back.

It's over simplifying if you leave out the sentences before and after. 

You know, the parts that give context. 



ml1 said:

mtierney said:

ml1 said:

I don't know what Biden said on 60 Minutes, but why am I convinced this is probably an oversimplification that borders on an untruth?

His remarks have been widely discussed for two days, and I posted his quote this a.m. What is an “oversimplification” in your view? You assumed it just couldn’t have been a comment by the president, so you thought it had to have been  lie. Hundreds of people a day are still dying everyday.  

Biden also said if China  messes with Taiwan, America would step up. He said the same thing a few weeks ago, and had to quickly walk it back.

It's over simplifying if you leave out the sentences before and after. 

You know, the parts that give context. 

You already explained this. Clearly she doesn't read her own thread.


From today’s NYT…

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/19/us/politics/biden-covid-pandemic-over.html

From the link..

“WASHINGTON — With 400 to 500 Americans still dying every day of Covid-19, President Biden has declared that “the pandemic is over.”

“But don’t tell that to people like Debra McCoskey-Reisert, whose mother died in early August. Or Ben HsuBorger, who has chronic fatigue syndrome, a condition often brought on by viruses, including the coronavirus. Or Peter W. Goodman, whose wife died on Aug. 17.

“It’s not over for me,” said a tearful Mr. Goodman, 76, who is retired after working as a journalism professor at Hofstra University on Long Island. Both he and his wife, Debbie, 70, became sick with Covid-19 last month. He recovered. She did not.

“The president made the remarks while speaking in an interview that aired on CBS’s “60 Minutes” on Sunday night. By Monday morning, the backlash was in full swing — as patients said the president was being insensitive at best, and some public health experts said his words were at odds with the science.“


The President needs to hear what he is saying, because he is becoming a characteur of himself.





The National Review’s “Morning Joe” today came down 4rather hard on Biden today….

“The president says the pandemic is over, yet his administration is keeping the state of emergency in effect and apparently the plan is to hope that no one notices.

“Here’s the administration, laying out its budget request for next year, 18 days ago:

Second, our COVID-19 response efforts continue to require additional funding. . . . While we have made tremendous progress in our ability to protect against and treat COVID-19, we must stay on our front foot. Doing so requires additional resources, which is why today we are updating our previous funding request. The updated request is for $22.4 billion to meet immediate short-term domestic needs, including testing; accelerate the research and development of next-generation vaccines and therapeutics; prepare for future variants; and support the global response to COVID-19. This funding is vital to our ability to protect and build on the progress we’ve made.

“The president says the pandemic is over, but he needs another $22 billion to fight it.

Twelve days ago, White House officials told Politico that they were bracing for a perilous winter, and that “COVID is not over and our response continues to be active, comprehensive, and led out of the White House. That is not changing right now or soon.”

“Biden’s Department of Justice is still fighting in court to defend the CDC’s authority to issue mask requirements on airplanes.

“Both on the campaign trail and in the early days of his presidency, Biden pledged that he would always follow the science and listen to the experts. Apparently, Biden didn’t consult with Dr. Anthony Fauci before declaring the pandemic to be over.

“We are not where we need to be if we are going to quote ‘live with the virus’ because we know we are not going to eradicate it,” Fauci said Monday. “We must be aware,” he said later, “that it is likely, that with the combination of the evolution of variants as well as the seasonal aspects that as we get into this coming late fall and winter, it is likely that we will see another variant emerge. And there’s already on the horizon one that looks suspicious that it might start to evolve as another variant, and that’s the BA.2.75.2.”

“Also note that the administration is trying to get people to receive their updated Omicron boosters, in a rollout that the New York Times characterized as “methodical but muted.” Unsurprisingly, people are less motivated to go out and get their fourth shot than they were to get the first three. How motivated will people be to get them now that the president has appeared on television and declared that, “The pandemic is over”?

“Finally, while the cases are down, it is worth noting that they were relatively low in September 2021, too, and then in late autumn and winter, the Omicron wave arrived and cases and hospitalizations spiked to their all-time highs. A year ago at this time, cases were on the downward slope, after a rise in southern states, where people were spending more time indoors in air conditioning.

“Between past infections (more than 95 million reported cases since the start of the pandemic), vaccinations, and boosters, there are probably very few Americans who don’t have any protection against the virus at all. Most of us will be fine, and maybe if you’re lucky, you’ll realize your most recent infection was asymptomatic.

“But the cold weather makes people spend more time indoors, which means that they are closer together, and all kinds of contagious viruses spread faster and more easily — this is why winter is called cold-and-flu season. We’re going to have more Covid-19 cases this winter; hopefully, an overwhelming number will be mild, indistinguishable from the usual mundane winter cold, and won’t require hospitalization. But we still have the elderly and immunocompromised among us, and like with any viral infection, they may well have a harder time fighting it off.

Considering the track record of this president — who assured us that the surge of migrants at the border was a routine seasonal pattern, that the Afghan army was well-trained and well-equipped and deserved our confidence, that we wouldn’t see helicopters evacuating people from the U.S. embassy in Afghanistan, that inflation was transitory, that the U.S. would not enter a recession, that the supply-chain crisis didn’t occur, that Covid testing would be easy and plentiful last winter, and that the infant-formula shortage would get resolved quickly — maybe he should avoid confident declarations that the pandemic is over.

“If the measuring stick of a pandemic being over was the virus’ influence on daily life, then the beginning of the end of this pandemic came at the tail of the Omicron wave, and the end itself came with the with lifting of the Covid-testing requirement for international travel in June. (You know what moment I would choose to characterize the end of the pandemic? When Virginia’s state legislative Democrats surrendered to Glenn Youngkin on school mask mandates.)

“We know why Biden doesn’t do a lot of sit-down interviews. You never know when he’ll give a “four or five days ago, man” to George Stephanopolous, a “You’re being a wise guy” to Lester Holt, or rambling remarks about interracial couples in commercials to Jimmy Kimmel. Joe Biden is not who he used to be, physically or mentally, and he wasn’t the most mentally or verbally disciplined guy even back when he was in his prime. He’s not going to get any better after he turns 80 this November.”




These National Review guys need a dictionary.

"An epidemic is defined as 'an outbreak of disease that spreads quickly and affects many individuals at the same time.' A pandemic is a type of epidemic (one with greater range and coverage), an outbreak of a disease that occurs over a wide geographic area and affects an exceptionally high proportion of the population. While a pandemic may be characterized as a type of epidemic, you would not say that an epidemic is a type of pandemic."

Pandemic vs. Epidemic: What is the Difference? | Merriam-Webster

An epidemic is still a serious concern - is National Review arguing that it should be ignored?


Jeebus. I guess we need to see the full quote again. I'd hate to be a right winger. It requires pretending to be really, really, stupid. Every damn day. 

ml1 said:

yup, an oversimplification:

"The pandemic is over," Biden told CBS' Scott Pelley. "We still have a problem with COVID. We're still doing a lot of work on it ... but the pandemic is over."


nohero said:

These National Review guys need a dictionary.


No, they need a brain and a modicum of honesty and integrity.

Instead, they have no honesty or integrity, and a huge following of morons.


mtierney said:

Seems Putin’s inner circle is accident prone….

https://www.the-sun.com/news/6269942/former-putin-ally-dies-falling-down-stairs-russia-ukraine/

he’s a genius , that guy!!


Some 108,000 Americans died from fentanyl overdoses last year — a drug which enters our country across our southern border regularly— thankfully much is discovered by our overwhelmed Border Patrol men and women. Imagine what the number of deaths would reach if  confiscated drugs got through.

People who are not concerned about illegal immigration are complicit. Try as I might to find coverage on other news sources, Fox News has had a reporter at the border daily  for months. Some say, he is often the only reporter on there. It’s getting noticed…

Also Presented Without Comment

Twitter avatar for @BillFOXLABill Melugin @BillFOXLA.@politico reports that the White House has become “irritated” with me & our @FoxNews team’s reporting at the border.
politico.com/newsletters/we…
Image




The American government produces fentanyl, in fact it’s one of the things that is blocked from going to Russia by the embargo. There’s no migrant carrying drugs across the border. So enough with your disdain for the migrants…. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/09/15/fentanyl-export-russia-ban/


mtierney said:

Some 108,000 Americans died from fentanyl overdoses last year — a drug which enters our country across our southern border regularly— thankfully much is discovered by our overwhelmed Border Patrol men and women. Imagine what the number of deaths would reach if  confiscated drugs got through.

People who are not concerned about illegal immigration are complicit. Try as I might to find coverage on other news sources, Fox News has had a reporter at the border daily  for months. Some say, he is often the only reporter on there. It’s getting noticed…

Also Presented Without Comment

Twitter avatar for @BillFOXLABill Melugin @BillFOXLA.@politico reports that the White House has become “irritated” with me & our @FoxNews team’s reporting at the border.
politico.com/newsletters/we…
Image

migrants do not smuggle fentanyl, as much your Fox nitwits want you to believe that.


mtierney said:

Some 108,000 Americans died from fentanyl overdoses last year — a drug which enters our country across our southern border regularly— thankfully much is discovered by our overwhelmed Border Patrol men and women. Imagine what the number of deaths would reach if  confiscated drugs got through.

People who are not concerned about illegal immigration are complicit. Try as I might to find coverage on other news sources, Fox News has had a reporter at the border daily  for months. Some say, he is often the only reporter on there. It’s getting noticed…

From the Cato Institute (yes, the very not-liberal Cato Institute) -

Fentanyl Is Smuggled for U.S. Citizens By U.S. Citizens, Not Asylum Seekers


nohero said:

mtierney said:

Some 108,000 Americans died from fentanyl overdoses last year — a drug which enters our country across our southern border regularly— thankfully much is discovered by our overwhelmed Border Patrol men and women. Imagine what the number of deaths would reach if  confiscated drugs got through.

People who are not concerned about illegal immigration are complicit. Try as I might to find coverage on other news sources, Fox News has had a reporter at the border daily  for months. Some say, he is often the only reporter on there. It’s getting noticed…

From the Cato Institute (yes, the very not-liberal Cato Institute) -

Fentanyl Is Smuggled for U.S. Citizens By U.S. Citizens, Not Asylum Seekers

And not to quibble too much, or to minimize the problem, this line:

"Some 108,000 Americans died from fentanyl overdoses last year"

is horsepoop. Not sure where mt got it from.



drummerboy said:

And not to quibble too much, or to minimize the problem, this line:

"Some 108,000 Americans died from fentanyl overdoses last year"

is horsepoop. Not sure where mt got it from.

PBS is wrong?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjA9vj60an6AhUThIkEHbsXDpAQFnoECBMQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbs.org%2Fnewshour%2Fshow%2Foverdose-deaths-in-the-u-s-reach-new-record-levels-in-2021&usg=AOvVaw2ehD5cuKW3s-Tqf4F89nGl


2 million migrants swam across the river with backpacks loaded with fentanyl. 


drummerboy said:

migrants do not smuggle fentanyl, as much your Fox nitwits want you to believe that.

Since CNN, CNBC, the see-no-evil folks, etc do not have reporters at the borders, where do you get your info, DB? Our immigration czar hasn’t been there in nine months. 

With the numbers, chaos is everywhere and drug smugglers take advantage — they are still caught, but how much poison gets through?


mtierney said:

Since CNN, CNBC, the see-no-evil folks, etc do not have reporters at the borders, where do you get your info, DB? Our immigration czar hasn’t been there in nine months. 

With the numbers, chaos is everywhere and drug smugglers take advantage — they are still caught, but how much poison gets through?

First news item in the graphic -

“arrested two U.S. citizens”


There’s been a spike in fentanyl over dosing in MAGA country..


Some good news for someone who acted like a decent human being:

U.S. to Drop Charges Against Judge Accused of Helping Immigrant Escape ICE (NYT)


mtierney said:

drummerboy said:

And not to quibble too much, or to minimize the problem, this line:

"Some 108,000 Americans died from fentanyl overdoses last year"

is horsepoop. Not sure where mt got it from.

PBC is wrong?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjA9vj60an6AhUThIkEHbsXDpAQFnoECBMQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbs.org%2Fnewshour%2Fshow%2Foverdose-deaths-in-the-u-s-reach-new-record-levels-in-2021&usg=AOvVaw2ehD5cuKW3s-Tqf4F89nGl

you don't read very well.


The whole fentanyl thing is largely a moral panic for the right-wing, as it allows them to blame our opioid problem on migrants. The problem is not fentanyl, the problem is that we have a big population abusing opioids. This is a difficult problem to solve - how do you stop drug abuse? duh. Been wrangling with that for several generations. We could stop the smuggling of fentanyl down cold and we'd still have tens of thousands of people dying from opioid abuse.

But for the rabid-right, now they can just blame it on "open borders", blah blah blah. It's not a societal problem anymore to them. Now it's a political problem caused by those lousy lefties.


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