What do you do when your parents won't stop driving (when they should)?

He does not. Never been married before. @shoshannah, even if I get POA, I am not ready to go behind their back to their docs at this point.

My mom has made very clear that she is not ready to have this conversation yet. This makes it much harder....


Yeah, it does.

But anyone can get sick or have an accident. So making plans for that contingency is only sensible, especially if you've done so yourself or are just updating your plan. We have updated medical summaries kept in magnetic wallets on our fridge door; the wallets are supplied by Lions and emergency services know to look for them. A copy of the med summary should be in our own wallets with drivers licence etc. D knows I'm DNR; I know he's not but I also his limits. He uses a medical transport service for his cancer-related appointments (he doesn't have to, it's easier). His dad rarely uses taxis but still holds a taxi concession card (50% aged discount; not everyone can qualify) if he needs one. Etc.

Hang in there!


Deborahg, I've just found this wonderful resource! More than the page I've linked to, and much much more than people who use wheelchairs or people who may have little spare cash on hand (which is the kind of language used but is not the scope of the projects)

http://www.safeandmobileseniors.org/FamiliesandCaregiverResources.htm

Also for medical stuff http://www.dot.state.fl.us/ctd/docs/RiderDocs/MedicaidMMATranspContactInfo20141016.pdf

And community transport, etc

http://www.dot.state.fl.us/ctd/ctcsbycounty.htm


Really every adult (single, married, with or without children) should have these kinds of documents as anyone can get into an accident or have an unexpected serious illness. Sadly, most of us don't do so as soon as we should. The attorney who did wills for my husband and me also included the healthcare proxy, POA, etc. in the packet of documents they drew up for us and we were nowhere near "senior citizen" age at that point. My grown children also have them, with me as POA for the time being.


Exactly.

And we should remember to update them as we move and our circumstances change.


sac said:
Toward the end of my parents lives, but before they moved into assisted living with medication management, I riffled through their prescriptions every time I visited to find out what they were taking.

While you were rifling through their meds, were they addle minded?

TomR


"addle minded"?

I hate to say it, but as parents age, they quite often become a little cagey about revealing problems because they are afraid of the ramifications. No one likes to admit they are less able to handle their lives, and most of us do not want to hand the reins to our kids any sooner than we absolutely have to.

But it can be a very, very fine line between being in full, competent control and slipping into dangerous territory. We found that out with my mother. I didn't quite recognize when the slide began, but one day I discovered that she had stopped taking ALL her medication for no apparent reason (she said she didn't need any of it any more, which was, of course, totally wrong) and she had stopped opening her mail because she didn't remember how to manage her finances and keep the bills paid.

My brother and I managed to step in before any tragedy occurred, but we would have known earlier if we had been there more. In my opinion, a little snooping is a very, very sound idea. Do it. Be on the lookout for any possible warning signs.

In the meantime, I think Deborahg's plan of continuing to talk to her mother about the realities and potential problems is a good one. Keep at it. It will be uncomfortable, but I think you will get through to your mother, at least, as long as you don't give up. Sooner or later she will see you are trying to help and that your points are valid. And hopefully, she will know it comes from a place of love.


Thank you Peggy! I think she definitely knows it's coming from a place of love. But yes, it's highly uncomfortable. I just wrote her the following email. Let's see what she says.

Dear Mom,

Now that we've opened the Pandora's Box of "What ifs" about aging/end of life issues, it would really help [bro and me] if you could share your thoughts on these questions. A growing number of my friends' parents are dealing with them, and sometimes the changes come in the blink of an eye. It's good to have a sense of Plan B.

1. What will you do when you are no longer able to drive? Options include: using a car service, hiring a driver/person to do errands, moving somewhere where everything is in walking distance, other?

2. Do you plan to stay in Florida permanently? If so, is there a townhome or apartment community, or assisted living facilities, within walking distance of everything you need? Would you and D be interested in that option?

3. If you don't plan to stay in Florida permanently, would you want to move when/if driving was no longer an option? If not, what circumstances would warrant a move?

4. If D becomes ill/needs someone with him at all times, how will you handle his ongoing care? Are you ready to give up travel, handle all household issues etc., or would you want another plan put in place?

5. Where would you like to move? Both J and I live near apartments/townhouse communities in downtowns. Both areas have developed Uber (inexpensive car service) businesses; buses and shuttles; a thriving Jewish community; and in my case, an easy walk from downtown to multiple temples and the train to NYC. Of the two, New Jersey is significantly more expensive. Two-bedroom apartments start at $2,500 a month and go up from there, slightly less in surrounding towns.

So there are some things to think about. We'll talk!

Love you, etc.



Tom_R said:


sac said:
Toward the end of my parents lives, but before they moved into assisted living with medication management, I riffled through their prescriptions every time I visited to find out what they were taking.
While you were rifling through their meds, were they addle minded?
TomR

What do you mean by 'addle minded'?


sac said:


Tom_R said:


sac said:
Toward the end of my parents lives, but before they moved into assisted living with medication management, I riffled through their prescriptions every time I visited to find out what they were taking.
While you were rifling through their meds, were they addle minded?
TomR
What do you mean by 'addle minded'?

Confused; muddled.

Why were you rifling through their meds?

TomR


Well thought out e-mail that helps you to process the issues and alternatives. Still, I wonder how your mother is going to react when she reads it. If it serves to re-enforce fears she may have that she is not emotionally ready to face and leads her to conclude that this is something she must face on her own, it could prove very distressing for her. Hopefully, you are planning to follow up the e-mail with a phone conversation where she might better pick-up on your understanding of and consideration for her feelings and your promise of support in helping her work things out. These important elements might not come through as easily when an e-mail is the only form of communication offered.


I appreciate your perspective. But we've been talking about this openly and I can't imagine why she'd think she had to face it on her own. That's what family's for, right? Anyway here's her response:

"Love you,too and appreciate your concern. I will think about my options, and we will talk about it. Mom"

Not sure when she'll be ready to talk about it but that's another issue...


Hopefully, she will be ready to talk about it soon. Wishing your family luck and skill in resolving this issue together.


That's a hopeful response. Just keep at it. Perhaps the next time you talk to her, tell her if you can work through a "what if" plan, you'll stop talking about it until something happens. The promise of not having to talk about it might be the incentive she needs


Thank you! I hope the conversation will continue. My mother was inspired by reading "Being Mortal" by Atul Gawande, which I also loved, and told me she'd like to be in control of as many of these decisions as possible. To me it seems less scary and more empowering to think about all of this sooner rather than later, especially since my stepfather has been ill. The last thing they would want is to have us sweep in and do whatever's most expedient because a decision has to be made right now. (That's hard on us, too, because we may not have time to consider every option in the moment.)

I feel like figuring this stuff out for me as well, now that I am talking about it.... Have others had thoughts about this?


I am in this stage with my parents (they are divorced although live 5 miles from each other in the same town!) and am experiencing the opposite ends of the spectrum. My dad does not want to discuss it. From what I know, his finances seem to be in good order (he was an accountant) and his health is good at the moment but there have been no conversations about what ifs for the future. This is really hard for me as I am a planner and frankly I don't do well when thrown a curveball or last minute decision to be made. My mom on the other hand has been talking things over with my brother and I for years. Recently, she made a trip with a good friend of hers to visit an assisted living facility in her area and she loved it (which I think surprised both her and I!). She thought that she would prefer the single family homes that they have on premises but actually ended up liking the apartments more because of the convenience of not having to deal with the bad weather. Underground parking, elevators straight up to the apartment building floors, walking to the dining hall without an umbrella etc. So, maybe the next time you go for a visit you could go together to visit some possible living situations? If she actually sees what the possibilities are she may begin to start visualizing a life there as opposed to it being in theory. Change can be scary for everyone but especially when you have been living life in a certain place, a certain way for awhile. Showing her that the new place would provide her and your stepfather with some wonderful benefits might help push her in that direction.


We've spoken about what-ifs for years, partly because of dealing with relatives who had no wills, or no advanced health directives. And the people I'm thinking of were professionals who planned everything else, but saw these as calling the bad things into your life so refused to think about it.

My mum believed families should talk about everything, even if it's not written down


mikescott said:
I had a hard time with my Dad but once I pointed out it was going to be cheaper to use a car service once a week vs the cost of owning the car (insurance being the largest cost) he agreed.
The key is for all of us to remember this when our kids are trying to get us to give up our cars... and plan accordingly.

Wow, this might work for my dad. What a great idea.


I love the email idea. My in-laws don't respond well to anything except small talk in person. On top of that, my MIL doesn't hear very well. Laying it out like that in an email would be useful. They are both in their mid-90s and still refuse to talk about these issues. They still live in the house they raised their children in. MIL still drives, cooks, does laundry, calls the electrician and plumber when needed, pays bills, and calls Verizon to troubleshoot. There are no plans to move out. They don't have cemetery plots. At what point do you just take over and TELL them, "This is what we're doing."?


Shoshana, our rabbi would sit with them and say 'you know, you're doing very well (bis hundert-zwanzig) but your babies will need help when you can't tell them what to do any more. Why don't we start writing a list of who you like for the plumber, the electricity, the heart specialist, the dentist, do you have membership of Chevra?'... And slowly, over a couple of coffees, and a couple jokes, they'd get the beginnings of a plan.


Joanne, send your rabbi here


He left Colorado for here cheese ... I'll talk to him!

(But I love him too much, truth be told)

In other parental milestone news, we've had to discontinue FIL's cell phone today because the fees have gone up and he has no idea how to use it any more. He carries it, daily, but can't answer it let alone make a call. And in the discussion with his brothers about how the phone, D learnt that their dad rarely eats or drinks any more.

We've known for years he cycles through this anorexia, they can't see it and haven't wanted to recognise it's part of his dementia. FIL has previously said he wants extraordinary measures to stay alive; BILs can't envision nose- or PEG feeding. Yet they insist on keeping him at home with minimal support.

Conversations on all these matters are important. They don't need to be held at the one time, but we should know what people want for themselves.


joanne said:
Shoshana, our rabbi would sit with them and say 'you know, you're doing very well (bis hundert-zwanzig) but your babies will need help when you can't tell them what to do any more. Why don't we start writing a list of who you like for the plumber, the electricity, the heart specialist, the dentist, do you have membership of Chevra?'... And slowly, over a couple of coffees, and a couple jokes, they'd get the beginnings of a plan.

You know what, if they had a rabbi that would be a GREAT idea. Unfortunately, their formerly all-Jewish neighborhood is now mostly Asian, and their former synagogue is a Korean church.


Seriously: would they Skype? My rabbi still connects with many of his former congregants all over the world, via Skype and email. And he blogs, which might be a way to introduce him to them.

In order not to distract from the main topic, we can PM if you like.


We just did a POLST form for my mom. This is a green form which is a universally recognized DNR, which lays out specific measures to be taken, or more importantly, not taken.This is attached to her living will,/ health care proxy and travels with her to hospital, rehab, emergency room,etc.It is also honored by any EMT's responding to her home.It became emotionally draining to have to have that conversation every time she moved to a different health care facility so now its done for good. Hard, but convenient.


Well done! (I remember how that conversation with FIL took months)

Where did you get the form? Did it need formal witnessing with a lawyer etc?


joanne said:
Well done! (I remember how that conversation with FIL took months)
Where did you get the form? Did it need formal witnessing with a lawyer etc?

http://www.nj.gov/health/advancedirective/polst.shtml


Rehab supplied it. Filled out by family member with medical POA. Another section filled out by doctor. Thats it. Have to remember to bring it home w Mom next Weds and attach it to her living will. Pretty painless.


@ shoshannah: The neighborhood may have changed demographically; however, if there is a Jewish community, such as Metro West, within the region, they may have an outreach program that would enable a meeting with clergy.



joanne said:
Seriously: would they Skype? My rabbi still connects with many of his former congregants all over the world, via Skype and email. And he blogs, which might be a way to introduce him to them.
In order not to distract from the main topic, we can PM if you like.

Thanks so much for the offer. They wouldn't do this.

joan_crystal said:
@ shoshannah: The neighborhood may have changed demographically; however, if there is a Jewish community, such as Metro West, within the region, they may have an outreach program that would enable a meeting with clergy.

This is not a bad idea.


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