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I'm not sure why Paul thinks some of us aren't able to simultaneously hold the thoughts in our head that the Tesla corporation has done a lot to advance solar and EV technology with consumers AND know that Elon Musk is personally a pretty terrible person.


ml1 said:

I'm not sure why Paul thinks some of us aren't able to simultaneously hold the thoughts in our head that the Tesla corporation has done a lot to advance solar and EV technology with consumers AND know that Elon Musk is personally a pretty terrible person.

I have it on good authority that he's NOT the Antichrist. 


DaveSchmidt said:

paulsurovell said:

Left alone, your remark is a distortion of the story.

PVW: Musk’s crusade against workers is broader than Twitter.

You: What about his embrace by two countries whose leaders have crusaded against workers?

Dave: (Whistling past Biden's Under Sec Fernandez, Spanish PM Sanchez, and powerful labor unions in France and Italy)


DanDietrich said:

yahooyahoo said:

DanDietrich said:

Here's my take on this.  I'm big into solar and EVs.  Musk deserves a lot of credit for creating Tesla and hiring good engineers.  Their cars are innovative and some of the technology is groundbreaking.  

Musk did not create or found Tesla.

Tesla was founded by Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning in July, 2003.  Tesla then received Series A funding from Musk (among several others) in 2004. Musk subsequently led several more rounds of financing.

Okay, Musk had control of it by 2005.  If you think that his involvement was not integral to the engineering success of the company, regardless of his many other faults, then you are just being petty and trying to force a narrative.  There are a lot of people posting opinions about EVs in general on this thread who seem to be afraid of progress, and certainly don't own EVs or follow the engineering.  

I didn't say Musk was not integral to the growth of Tesla.  All I said is that he did not start the company.  He calls himself a "founder" because he's allowed to through a lawsuit settlement, but it's not true.


paulsurovell said:

Here's a story about another "non-fascist" leader inviting Elon to visit to help fight climate change:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-05/musk-tells-spain-to-invest-in-solar-premier-invites-him-over

Based on the article, it seems like the main goal of Spain's leader is to get Musk to invest lots of money in Spain.


paulsurovell said:

Dave: (Whistling past Biden's Under Sec Fernandez, Spanish PM Sanchez, and powerful labor unions in France and Italy)

A lot of self-deflection goes a little way.


ml1 said:

I'm not sure why Paul thinks some of us aren't able to simultaneously hold the thoughts in our head that the Tesla corporation has done a lot to advance solar and EV technology with consumers AND know that Elon Musk is personally a pretty terrible person.

Because it hasn't been said yet. And by the way, I'm not defending Elon's personality. I'm not sure what he's like on a personal level, and I don't care. It's his impact on humanity that I care about.


DaveSchmidt said:

paulsurovell said:

Dave: (Whistling past Biden's Under Sec Fernandez, Spanish PM Sanchez, and powerful labor unions in France and Italy)

A lot of self-deflection goes a little way.

You should give yourself less credit than that.


yahooyahoo said:

paulsurovell said:

Here's a story about another "non-fascist" leader inviting Elon to visit to help fight climate change:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-05/musk-tells-spain-to-invest-in-solar-premier-invites-him-over

Based on the article, it seems like the main goal of Spain's leader is to get Musk to invest lots of money in Spain.

Yes, to invest lots of money in solar energy. Tesla has a very strong track record in that.


paulsurovell said:

DaveSchmidt said:

paulsurovell said:

Dave: (Whistling past Biden's Under Sec Fernandez, Spanish PM Sanchez, and powerful labor unions in France and Italy)

A lot of self-deflection goes a little way.

You should give yourself less credit than that.


nohero said:

Whatever one says about Elon and labor, you can't deny that he is proudly "not woke". 

"Woke" as defined by Ron DeSantis's counsel the other day - "the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them."

What does 'woke' mean? Gov. DeSantis officials answer during Andrew Warren trial (fox13news.com)

Better to relay on Pres Obama than Gov DeSantis to understand what "woke" means:


paulsurovell said:

DaveSchmidt said:

paulsurovell said:

Dave: (Whistling past Biden's Under Sec Fernandez, Spanish PM Sanchez, and powerful labor unions in France and Italy)

A lot of self-deflection goes a little way.

You should give yourself less credit than that.

Someone is extra grouchy today for some reason.


nohero said:

Whatever one says about Elon and labor, you can't deny that he is proudly "not woke". 

"Woke" as defined by Ron DeSantis's counsel the other day - "the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them."

What does 'woke' mean? Gov. DeSantis officials answer during Andrew Warren trial (fox13news.com)

Better to relay on Pres Obama than Gov DeSantis to understand what "woke" means:

nohero said:

Elon "trolling" his critics on the Twitter with a little "Pepe the Frog" meme. I didn't know what it was supposed to be, either, but looked at the replies to find out. 

You're on a roll!


nohero said:

paulsurovell said:

DaveSchmidt said:

paulsurovell said:

Dave: (Whistling past Biden's Under Sec Fernandez, Spanish PM Sanchez, and powerful labor unions in France and Italy)

A lot of self-deflection goes a little way.

You should give yourself less credit than that.

Someone is extra grouchy today for some reason.

Ouch!


paulsurovell said:

nohero said:

Whatever one says about Elon and labor, you can't deny that he is proudly "not woke". 

"Woke" as defined by Ron DeSantis's counsel the other day - "the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them."

What does 'woke' mean? Gov. DeSantis officials answer during Andrew Warren trial (fox13news.com)

Better to relay on Pres Obama than Gov DeSantis to understand what "woke" means:

For anyone who knows what Obama actually said, you're not making a point, Paul.


Fixed it for you.

paulsurovell said:

MORE Twitter files BULLSHITE:


nohero said:

paulsurovell said:

nohero said:

Whatever one says about Elon and labor, you can't deny that he is proudly "not woke". 

"Woke" as defined by Ron DeSantis's counsel the other day - "the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them."

What does 'woke' mean? Gov. DeSantis officials answer during Andrew Warren trial (fox13news.com)

Better to relay on Pres Obama than Gov DeSantis to understand what "woke" means:

For anyone who knows what Obama actually said, you're not making a point, Paul.

They just have to listen. He's very clear.


paulsurovell said:

nohero said:

For anyone who knows what Obama actually said, you're not making a point, Paul.

They just have to listen. He's very clear.

But his point isn't something that supports your point, Paul.

While we're on the subject, you could explain what "woke" means to you when you use the word like this.

https://twitter.com/paulsurovell/status/1600889162667794433


paulsurovell said:

You should give yourself less credit than that.

Ouch?


Pepe the Frog is a well-known symbol of hate. This article is from 2016.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37493165

Online cartoon Pepe the Frog has been added to the Anti-Defamation League (ADL)'s database of hate symbols.

Other logos cited as offensive by the ADL include the Swastika and the "Blood Drop Cross" of the Ku Klux Klan (KKK).

The anti-bigotry group said "racists and haters" had "taken a popular internet meme and twisted it".

Pepe has recently been depicted as Adolf Hitler and a member of the white supremacist KKK.


DaveSchmidt said:

paulsurovell said:

You should give yourself less credit than that.

Ouch?

It's up to you.


nohero said:

paulsurovell said:

nohero said:

For anyone who knows what Obama actually said, you're not making a point, Paul.

They just have to listen. He's very clear.

But his point isn't something that supports your point, Paul.

While we're on the subject, you could explain what "woke" means to you when you use the word like this.

https://twitter.com/paulsurovell/status/1600889162667794433

I doubt the NY Times staff that attacked Bari Weiss would object to their description as "woke". But my point was, that "wokeness" doesn't usually apply to defending the rights of Palestinian students in the US, which is what Bari Weiss opposed at Columbia (and many Palestinian activists opposed her hiring by the NYT for that reason).

In the case at hand, are many complaints of suspended Twitter accounts of Palestinian activists -- by the "woke" staff and Ali Abunimah is questioning whether Bari Weiss, given her history, is going to defend them.

Edited to add: Pres Obama's definition of "wokeness" is as good as you'll get.


paulsurovell said:

I doubt the NY Times staff that attacked Bari Weiss would object to their description as "woke". But my point was, that "wokeness" doesn't usually apply to defending the rights of Palestinian students in the US, which is what Bari Weiss opposed at Columbia (and many Palestinian activists opposed her hiring by the NYT for that reason).

In the case at hand, are many complaints of suspended Twitter accounts of Palestinian activists -- by the "woke" staff and Ali Abunimah is questioning whether Bari Weiss, given her history, is going to defend them.

Edited to add: Pres Obama's definition of "wokeness" is as good as you'll get.

I would take the time to respond, but I’m way past my “responding to dishonest bullshite” quota right now. Maybe later or tomorrow. 


Brief update on the alleged "fascist" PM of Italy:

This is her with EU Pres Von der Leyen yesterday in the Royal Box of the La Scala Opera House grand opening. Looks like Elon couldn't make it.


nohero said:

paulsurovell said:

I doubt the NY Times staff that attacked Bari Weiss would object to their description as "woke". But my point was, that "wokeness" doesn't usually apply to defending the rights of Palestinian students in the US, which is what Bari Weiss opposed at Columbia (and many Palestinian activists opposed her hiring by the NYT for that reason).

In the case at hand, are many complaints of suspended Twitter accounts of Palestinian activists -- by the "woke" staff and Ali Abunimah is questioning whether Bari Weiss, given her history, is going to defend them.

Edited to add: Pres Obama's definition of "wokeness" is as good as you'll get.

I would take the time to respond, but I’m way past my “responding to dishonest bullshite” quota right now. Maybe later or tomorrow. 

Someone is extra grouchy today.


Smedley said:

Someone is extra grouchy today.

To the contrary, I’ve been extra accommodating today. 


Does Paul really not know the background to the current Italian government? Sometimes his ignorance of world affairs really surprises me.


PVW said:

Does Paul really not know the background to the current Italian government? Sometimes his ignorance of world affairs really surprises me.

He gets all his ignorance of world affairs from Twitter. It’s tiresome, I honestly don’t know how someone can post the same things over and over. 


PVW said:

Does Paul really not know the background to the current Italian government? Sometimes his ignorance of world affairs really surprises me.

Is it ignorance? Or does he think that the media is unfairly characterizing her as fascist, just like the thinks they're being unfair to Musk?

I'm sure paul can explain.


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