Trail Bikes in the Res.

I spent an hour on the trails this afternoon. During that time, I saw two guys riding bikes out of a trail and onto another trail. As I was leaving, two other guys, took their bikes off car bike racks and rode the bikes past the "No Bike" signage. There were many tire marks on Lenape Trail.

South Mountain Conservancy is curiously quiet on this. A few years ago, I had the feeling that a SMC faction was a JORBA puppet.

I'd sooner be approached by a bike than an off leash dog. Saw both during a train run this weekend and only the dog scared the !?#% out of me. 

I know the issue is the condition of the trails but to deal with either issue needs enforcement.

Was gonna mention the off leash dogs, which is the common practice of Rez dog walkers.  I love dogs, have one, and am not afraid of them but they should definitely be on leash and owners should definitely be cleaning up after them.   The Essex County Sheriff's office is not one of the crack law enforcement entities in the state.

Why should people obey the signs in the Reservation?

In the village we had to pay for a metal fence to stop the jay walkers from crossing Baker Street 20' from a cross walk.

Flood Joe D. with emails complaining about both problems. He's a big advocate for the parks so they should receive some attention. Tell your friends.

joedi@admin.essexcountynj.org

I was just at the dog park and noticed the County Sheriff Bomb Removal truck drive by and then pull into the picnic area.  No doubt they were on a big important job.

bub said:
I was just at the dog park and noticed the County Sheriff Bomb Removal truck drive by and then pull into the picnic area.  No doubt they were on a big important job.

 Well, there probably is a fair amount of down time with that job.  I don't begrudge the fellows a smoke break on Christmas Eve.

I see bikers in the reservation regularly.  They don't give a sh#t they are breaking the rules.  I'd love to see someone actually get a ticket.

Klinker said:

bub said:
I was just at the dog park and noticed the County Sheriff Bomb Removal truck drive by and then pull into the picnic area.  No doubt they were on a big important job.

 Well, there probably is a fair amount of down time with that job.  I don't begrudge the fellows a smoke break on Christmas Eve.

Maybe I'm overtaken with the generosity of the Christmas season. But is it possible someone called in that there was something suspicious (abandoned backpack for instance) that had been in the picnic area for a while?

I would assume such a call would go to the Bomb removal team.

mrincredible said:

Klinker said:

bub said:
I was just at the dog park and noticed the County Sheriff Bomb Removal truck drive by and then pull into the picnic area.  No doubt they were on a big important job.

 Well, there probably is a fair amount of down time with that job.  I don't begrudge the fellows a smoke break on Christmas Eve.

Maybe I'm overtaken with the generosity of the Christmas season. But is it possible someone called in that there was something suspicious (abandoned backpack for instance) that had been in the picnic area for a while?
I would assume such a call would go to the Bomb removal team.

I think any situation where something suspicious was reported would also warrant some police or county sheriff vehicles.  Not just a lonely bomb removal truck.

Bikes were allowed in the reservation for years without a problem.  Issues started when the county decided they wanted to minimize the amount of money then spend on maintenance and pretty much ended several things that parks are intended for including bikes.  I understood not allowing bikes on some trails but to completely  ban them seemed extreme to me.  Plus the county has not even put up share the road signs, or bike lanes on many of  their roads. 

the county figured out how to put in miniature golf, a restaurant with a bar, a parking deck and a dog park, surely they can figure out how to carve out a portion of the park that allows bikes on the trails.

mikescott said:

the county figured out how to put in miniature golf, a restaurant with a bar, a parking deck and a dog park, surely they can figure out how to carve out a portion of the park that allows bikes on the trails.

 The mini golf and bar generate revenue, and I don't think they cost anything to the county to build. I could be wrong on that last part, but not on the revenue.

Is your argument that the rules should be changed to allow bikes on the trails again? Or are you arguing that it's okay to break the rules because they're not fair in your opinion?

mrincredible said:

mikescott said:

the county figured out how to put in miniature golf, a restaurant with a bar, a parking deck and a dog park, surely they can figure out how to carve out a portion of the park that allows bikes on the trails.

 The mini golf and bar generate revenue, and I don't think they cost anything to the county to build. I could be wrong on that last part, but not on the revenue.
Is your argument that the rules should be changed to allow bikes on the trails again? Or are you arguing that it's okay to break the rules because they're not fair in your opinion?

The miniature golf, restaurant, parking deck, etc are all within the confines of the park. Open space was used to build tacky amusements and attractions. 

Essex County residents footed the bill. In fact, the county won't even recoup the full cost from the initial 15-year lease it signed for the restaurant. Talk about a sweetheart deal for McLoone's.

See article below:

https://www.myveronanj.com/2011/10/25/new-restaurant-opens-at-south-mountain/

Yes, the county did spend money to do all this–our money, $4.3 million of it. But at a press briefing to unveil the restaurant last week, County Executive Joseph N. DiVincenzo Jr. was adamant that the project, built on time and on budget, was money well spent. “Why do we want people to come here and not have a good place to eat?”, he asked, referring to South Mountain.  “Ten years ago, when I took office, this place was an eyesore. We can’t wait for the federal government or the state government. We have to do things for ourselves in Essex County.” McLoone’s, headed by Orange native Tim McLoone, put $600,000 into the restaurant’s development and will pay the County  $22,500 in rent per month for 15 years; it also has two additional five-year options on the lease.

To add insult to injury, Essex County is leasing the Orange Reservoir for $1.6 million over 20 years from the City of Orange.

Lookit me. Schooled by some Yahoo.   

Seriously though I appreciate the info. It looks as though McLoone will have to take at least the first five year optional lease to hit the break-even point.

I could make an argument that it will eventually be bringing money in to the Essex coffers. And the building itself remains an asset of the county. But that is the depth of my understanding. 

I guess the point I was trying to make is comparing McLoones and the miniature golf project with the cost of maintaining trails for cyclists is not really a fair comparison. 

Why does the County not permit trail biking?

mikescott said:
Bikes were allowed in the reservation for years without a problem.  Issues started when the county decided they wanted to minimize the amount of money then spend on maintenance and pretty much ended several things that parks are intended for including bikes.  I understood not allowing bikes on some trails but to completely  ban them seemed extreme to me.  Plus the county has not even put up share the road signs, or bike lanes on many of  their roads. 
the county figured out how to put in miniature golf, a restaurant with a bar, a parking deck and a dog park, surely they can figure out how to carve out a portion of the park that allows bikes on the trails.

 Mountain bikes have never been allowed in the reservation. When I moved to this area in the 1990s, the Freeholders were considering lifting the ban but were persuaded to leave it in place after hearing lots of evidence about the damage caused by such bikes and the danger to other users of the trails.  

Mary that was my memory too (but I wasn’t sure).

And I’ve lived here long enough to remember when the McLoones area was a messy, unpaved lot used for overflow parking and occasional carnivals.  

And to remember that the reservoir was behind a chain link fence, with a decaying caretakers house where the pavilion now is.  

Other than one parking lot across from the playground, little or no usable parkland was taken for these improvements, no matter what detractors say.

I’m a fan of one end of the park having these family-friendly features, as long as the remainder of the park is maintained in its more natural state.

To be fair, zoo expansions have probably taken some additional forested area.   Again, I think that is a net positive, and can remember that when we moved here, the survival of Turtleback zoo was far from certain, as it needed a hospital, certification, and massive upgrades to survive.  Again, I think it’s rebirth has been a positive development.

If bikes are allowed on reservation trails, it won't be pleasant for hikers.  There will be a huge number of bikers and there will be extensive trail damage.  This is why bikes were banned.

I'm a road cyclist and understand why trail bikes are banned in the reservation - there would be a lot of erosion if those trails were widely used. I sometimes ride my bike up to the top of the hill and do a loop inside the reservation on the 'pavement'. The road in the reservation really needs paving badly, and has for some time. Interesting how there is money for all the improvements around the Orange reservoir but none for basic maintenance in our section.

The reservoir may not have been beautiful when it was behind a fence but the water is pretty filthy now.  I avert my eyes when I walk around it, especially at the inlet area between the restaurant and the rink.  It's appalling. 

Apart form the erosion issue with bikes is the tendency of some of those people to think they re in the X Games.  Hikers don't need bikes whizzing by them, or cutting across in front of them, at high speeds.

Bikes were allowed but not on the dirt trails.  

My point was that they found millions for an illegal use of the park (read the deed for the reservation and the mini golf, restaurant and parking deck were all built in violation of the deed.  And while it might eventually bring in revenue, the ends does not justify the means.  

The county has an enormous open space fund where the money is given to his pet projects but there is no reason why a portion of that money can't be used for improved maintenance and allow portions of the park to be open to bikes.  

Also, the county uses McCloones to hold numerous events for the county.  So not only did they get a sweetheart deal, they get revenue from the county (I heard there were over 1,500 people at the county xmas party this year with tents.  All paid for with tax dollars that went to McCloones. 

Just pure corruption.  

mikescott said:
Bikes were allowed but not on the dirt trails.  
My point was that they found millions for an illegal use of the park (read the deed for the reservation and the mini golf, restaurant and parking deck were all built in violation of the deed.  And while it might eventually bring in revenue, the ends does not justify the means.  
The county has an enormous open space fund where the money is given to his pet projects but there is no reason why a portion of that money can't be used for improved maintenance and allow portions of the park to be open to bikes.  
Also, the county uses McCloones to hold numerous events for the county.  So not only did they get a sweetheart deal, they get revenue from the county (I heard there were over 1,500 people at the county xmas party this year with tents.  All paid for with tax dollars that went to McCloones. 
Just pure corruption.  

Joe D. is sleazy.

My personal peeve is the vegetation overgrowing the several lookout points at the loop.

Formerlyjerseyjack said:
My personal peeve is the vegetation overgrowing the several lookout points at the loop.

Blocking the view of Manhattan and Staten Island.

I remember, as a 'ute, I could view a panorama from Millburn Jr. H.S. ( was just Millburn High then) to Bergen County, Now, you see mostly trees.

Go to Garret Mountain to see what the possibility is,

I had no idea bicycles weren't allowed on trails.   hilarious

I almost got clocked by two riders this morning the reservation.  I mentioned i didnt think bikes were allowed on the trails.  It's the second time in two vists this week i saw riders.  Did the rules change, maybe? The riders today said they had permission. I doubted it very much.  I didn't come across any this summer.  Maybe they only violate the rules in winter when fewer people are around?