The view from nj transit
NJ Transit is in the process of replacing approximately 13,000 cloudy windows on its fleet of multilevel trains to improve visibility for passengers. The project, accelerated in 2025, is expected to be completed by 2028 and will cost over $81 million. The new windows will be more durable, resistant to scratches and UV damage, and will remain clearer for longer than the older ones, which became opaque due to long-term exposure to elements like UV light
I thought it was due to a lack of cleaning. It's nice to be able to look out the window so get on with it NJT.
bub said:
I thought it was due to a lack of cleaning. It's nice to be able to look out the window so get on with it NJT.
And practical. Sometimes, when announcements aren’t made and the signs at the ends of the car aren’t flashing the stops, the cloudy windows make it impossible for me to tell which station we’re at. I pity the casual riders who don’t know instinctively where to get off and who could really use some cues.
After losing track of the stops, tonight I learned how much the lights at Millburn’s station can look like South Orange’s through nearly impenetrable windows. Luckily, I went to the exit door to check.
Not only did my wife have the pleasure of an unexpected call to pick me up, she got to hear me grouse about my error — oh, and NJT — all the way back to Maplewood.
Looking at cars stuck in traffic on my commute home is one of the things that keeps me using NJ Transit and they are making that difficult most of the time.
What I find weird is how apparently all the windows have failed like this in a short period of time? I guess they all must have gone into service in a similar time period.
As far as missing trains, I haven't missed my stop due to lack of windows, but I have missed it due to the weird scheduling and line color choices NJT makes. Both Maplewood and South Orange are served on the same line, but sometimes the train goes to one and not the other, and both are colored green in the display, just different shades (darker vs light green). And in the evening they leave within minutes of each other. So if you're in a rush and arriving at Penn in the nick of time, it's easy to quickly glance at the display, rush to the wrong track, and find yourself in Maplewood rather than South Orange. The problem is, the jitney to West Orange leaves from SO, so much as I enjoy occasionally visiting Maplewood offline, it's not what I'm looking for in my evening commute.
(I find the rather random ordering of stations the same line will stop or skip especially confusing as I still have muscle memory from living in the city, where you get to know what are express vs local stops very well, and I have yet to fully shake off that mental model for NJT).
I always had a theory that whatever cleaning agents they were using to spray down the trains during covid really destroyed those windows, as that's when I noticed it got really bad, but I'm probably wrong on that front.
I read one possibility is that the seal between the double pane window isn't that great and moisture builds up inside. When it dries the minerals from the water are left behind.
Either way, it is a quality issue, which should be remedied by the manufacturer.
tomcat said:
Either way, it is a quality issue, which should be remedied by the manufacturer.
nah, could be atmospheric degradation or any number of things. If a certain material was specified, accepted, and provided with proper installation it's not a manufacturing error.
What professional manufacturer would accept a specification that they know to be a problem? Could be a payday for lawyers.
This is also a major safety problem. If first responders can't see in and passengers can't see out, it creates a lot of problems in emergency situations.
NJ Transit windows are frosted because the polycarbonate material they are made of has degraded over time due to exposure to the elements, such as UV rays, heat, and acid rain. This degradation causes a cloudy, hazy appearance that cannot be reversed, which has led to NJ Transit accelerating a plan to replace all the windows in its fleet.
- Material degradation: The windows are made from a durable polycarbonate plastic, but constant exposure to sun (UV rays), heat, and acid rain has caused the coating to break down over time.
- UV exposure: Ultraviolet light from the sun degrades the surface of the windows, creating a cloudy or hazy appearance.
- Scratches and cleaning: Accumulated scratches from dust, debris, and frequent cleaning also contribute to the dull or opaque look.
- Inability to reverse: After studies with Rutgers University, it was determined that refurbishment or special cleaning solutions were not viable or efficient for reversing the damage.
- Replacement plan: NJ Transit is now replacing all 13,000+ windows on its Multilevel I and II rail cars to restore clarity. The project was accelerated and is expected to be completed by April 2028.
My own further research shows that this is not unique to NJ Transit. We really have screwed up our environment.
DaveSchmidt said:
And practical. Sometimes, when announcements aren’t made and the signs at the ends of the car aren’t flashing the stops, the cloudy windows make it impossible for me to tell which station we’re at. I pity the casual riders who don’t know instinctively where to get off and who could really use some cues.
In situations like that I use Google Maps on my mobile to show my location. With that, it's pretty easy to figure out where you are relative to the stations.
tom said:
In situations like that I use Google Maps on my mobile to show my location. With that, it's pretty easy to figure out where you are relative to the stations.
That is great if you have a device that can display your location on google maps and sufficient reception for the information to display. Not all of us have that capability.
Hopefully they use windows with a similar material used on the single deck trains which don’t seem to have the same issues.
Seth mentioned the windows at the 3:10 mark here:
They said they were replaced in more than half of the multi level cars.
jamie said:
Seth mentioned the windows at the 3:10 mark here:
They said they were replaced in more than half of the multi level cars.
they’ve been replacing them.
I suppose it’s to diffuse sunlight? Just annoying