The Turf War Returns

I don't think that is an apt comparison.  There is a giant federal courthouse on one side of Cadman Plaza and lots of foot traffic in the area.  Those presences provide a certain amount of security that wouldn't be present at DeHart.


I go to court there from time time to time and sit on a bench when I'm early.  The field always seems to be in use by young kids, either with day camps, accompanied by babysitters, or perhaps gym classes from area schools.  I don't recall ever seeing a real organized team game of anything being played there.  Don't know what the weekend scene is like. 


yeah, I don't get the thing about having to protect the field.

Would a dog even poop/pee on a turf field?


bub said:

I go to court there from time time to time and sit on a bench when I'm early.  The field always seems to be in use by young kids, either with day camps, accompanied by babysitters, or perhaps gym classes from area schools.  I don't recall ever seeing a real organized team game of anything being played there.  Don't know what the weekend scene is like. 

There are organized games as well as the ability to reserve the space via permit. Check the Parks Department page.

I was involved in building that courthouse as well as the rehabilitation of the post office building next door.
The difference in both condition and usage of that field is night and day for the better.

Not sure how to address the foot traffic/armed guard comment other than to say the security and foot traffic conditions will be the same at DeHart whether the field is grass or turf.



Dogs pee and poo on both grass and turf.



I was thinking, “Well, there they go.”


The field at Cadman Plaza may be unfenced.  I doubt the same would be true at DeHart Park since even the present grass fields are fenced in.  I  doubt, given the wide range of fields available in Brooklyn, NY, that the field at Cadman Plaza gets the same level of use as the fields at DeHart. I don't think you can compare a field in Brooklyn's Civic Center with a field in a residential neighborhood, where that field is the only green space serving the community.  Finally, I wonder if the materials used, installation, and topographical concerns over drainage and the like are comparable.  Are athletic tournaments held at the Cadman Plaza field that are comparable to the Memorial Day Weekend soccer tournament held each year at DeHart Park?


joan_crystal said:

The field at Cadman Plaza may be unfenced.  I doubt the same would be true at DeHart Park since even the present grass fields are fenced in.  I  doubt, given the wide range of fields available in Brooklyn, NY, that the field at Cadman Plaza gets the same level of use as the fields at DeHart. I don't think you can compare a field in Brooklyn's Civic Center with a field in a residential neighborhood, where that field is the only green space serving the community.  Finally, I wonder if the materials used, installation, and topographical concerns over drainage and the like are comparable.  Are athletic tournaments held at the Cadman Plaza field that are comparable to the Memorial Day Weekend soccer tournament held each year at DeHart Park?

Not understanding the fence/no fence argument if it is currently fenced. Brooklyn Heights, a residential neighborhood, is immediately adjacent to a Cadman Plaza and this field serves as their primary open space. There is actually more access to open space and grass fields given the adjacency of Maplecrest Park. It is easier to drain a turf field than a grass field due to the firmness of the sub grade, the ability to engineer a crown into the field, and given the firmness of the sub grade, to install drain pipes. The fields at DeHart would hold up a helluva lot better for that tournament if it were turf rather than grass.


There is now a very large park complex on the Brooklyn Heights waterfront that includes athletic fields:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn_Bridge_Park


True. Maplecrest Park is closer to the neighborhood than Brooklyn Bridge Park is to Brooklyn Heights.

Edited to add that the athletic fields at Brooklyn Bridge Park are covered with…

Turf. 

Something about intensity of use, field availability, and ease of maintenance…


It's an impressive complex of parks they built there.  If you're in Brooklyn Heights on a nice day, or even in downtown Manhattan, it's worth checking out.  


bub said:

It's an impressive complex of parks they built there.  If you're in Brooklyn Heights on a nice day, or even in downtown Manhattan, it's worth checking out.  

Totally agree! 

Pre-Covid times I'd walk from my downtown office over the Brooklyn Bridge, down to Fulton Landing and then meander through the park and the recreation piers.  Took the subway back.  Such a great neighborhood in Brooklyn Heights.


joan_crystal said:

According to the Director of Community Services, the artificial turf covered fields would be fenced in. All of the space inside the fence would be covered with artificial turf.  She did not say whether the new fence line would be the same as the existing fence line.  If the existing fence line remains, there would be a narrow strip of grass at best between the fence and the foot path.  I like the idea of providing for a grass covered viewing area so spectators can watch the games.  Something those in favor of the proposal should suggest.

I agree with @SZM that the town should issue permits with preference given to town scheduled activities whenever possible. Private clubs using the athletic fields, while revenue producing, clearly complicates the matter and adds considerably to the overuse of the fields. If the proposal does carry, there are a lot of conditions that would need to be placed on the use and maintenance of the fields if there is to be any chance of advancing the proponent's goal of having virtually unlimited playing time for those permitted to use the fields.

People might not like to hear or admit this, but is the answer that the town doesn’t place too high a priority on organized sports* and, given the strain on resources, feels the best option is to muddle along with a shortage of usable fields?

I think the investment is worth it for several reasons and that it’s unfortunate that young residents more serious about sports are compelled to pay to join an out-of-town club if they want to be reasonably certain that they’ll be able to play on a sunny Saturday following Thursday rain.

Maybe Joan’s distinction is the right one. Play recreational sports on the towns’ fields when conditions allow, but make clear that clubs/families looking for something more consistent and reliable look elsewhere. Cougar Soccer has played “home” games on turf fields at Newark Academy and the county field in Orange. Outsourcing, perhaps even investing in creating/upgrading a facility in a nearby town might be a possibility.

*Another example of this is that we frequently will have two or three Columbia events at one location (which includes a turf field) that has about 30 parking spaces.


After a lengthily public hearing during which the vast majority of speakers voiced their objections to the portion of the proposed bond ordinance that would provide funding for artificial turf fields at DeHart Park, the township committee voted 4 to 1 to approve the ordinance.  Based on the reasons they gave for supporting the ordinance, it is my impression that the majority of township committee members wanted to defer the final decision to a ballot referendum. Some members voting in favor of the bond ordinance strongly encouraged those in opposition to organize, obtain the needed signatures, and force a referendum on the ballot in November.  


The TC also stressed that the ordinance was just to approve the bond (which still apparently could be rejected, as Joan said, in a referendum). Making decisions on widely debated details such the contractor, the type of surface, how much space the turf actually covers and green space alternatives would come later on.


joan_crystal said:

After a lengthily public hearing during which the vast majority of speakers voiced their objections to the portion of the proposed bond ordinance that would provide funding for artificial turf fields at DeHart Park, the township committee voted 4 to 1 to approve the ordinance.  Based on the reasons they gave for supporting the ordinance, it is my impression that the majority of township committee members wanted to defer the final decision to a ballot referendum. Some members voting in favor of the bond ordinance strongly encouraged those in opposition to organize, obtain the needed signatures, and force a referendum on the ballot in November.  

this of course means the referendum will be rejected.  I don't have a personal stake in this because I don't use the fields and I don't have kids who do.   I am in favor of installing an artificial turf field for recreation because no matter what some people are trying to sell us, natural grass is just not going to hold up to six days a week usage for eight months of the year.  If we want residents to have full opportunity for outdoor recreation, and not close down fields for maintenance, grass is really not a viable surface for the field.

but I've been convinced from the beginning that this debate is really just a waste of everyone's time because the turf installation was NEVER going to happen.  Not ever.  It is just so much easier for residents to say no to things than it is for proponents to convince residents of the benefits of a project.


Here's the meeting Turf talk starts around 1:01


chalmers said:

The TC also stressed that the ordinance was just to approve the bond (which still apparently could be rejected, as Joan said, in a referendum). Making decisions on widely debated details such the contractor, the type of surface, how much space the turf actually covers and green space alternatives would come later on.

 The bond ordinance focuses specifically on authorizing the funding for the artificial turf project and one other capital expenditure.  A referendum, should one appear on the ballot, would deal with the question of whether the artificial turf project should take place, but; would not question the other capital expenditure specified in the bond ordinance.  If the artificial turf project is voted down, the money in the bond ordinance allocated to the artificial turf project would not need to be raised; but money would still be needed for the other item.  


Thanks for the clarification. So should the turf field be rejected in a referendum, the town would still be authorized to use the bond authority approved last night (roughly 1/10 of the total cost) to upgrade the town's 911 system.


chalmers said:

Thanks for the clarification. So should the turf field be rejected in a referendum, the town would still be authorized to use the bond authority approved last night (roughly 1/10 of the total cost) to upgrade the town's 911 system.

 Yes.


I personally think a referendum would pass.  Someone on FB posted an anti turf petition and 40 out of 45 posts were in opposition to the petition.  I have no personal horse in the race, but huge numbers of parents want good fields.  Their views are no less important than other views.


FilmCarp said:

I personally think a referendum would pass.  Someone on FB posted an anti turf petition and 40 out of 45 posts were in opposition to the petition.  I have no personal horse in the race, but huge numbers of parents want good fields. Their views are no less important than other views.

I don't know. There's a pretty substantial, silent group of people who haven't had kids play on those fields (at least for a long time) and never will. They might balk at the expense assuming that the current fields are adequate (I disagree) and the turf effort just comes from youth sports parents who want top-of-the-line fields.

Though I don't agree, I thought one of turf opponents last night summed up the anti-turf position pretty honestly by saying that the town has no obligation to provide usable fields for organized sports. Dean Dafis disagreed with this strongly. I think pro-turf people would be well advised to make the argument that people moving here and comparable towns do expect access to at least passable youth sports facilities. This might appeal to homeowners who don't have a direct stake in the fields.

The one group I can't understand is the "Grass can work just fine on DeHart (and perhaps other fields) for what we need. The reason it hasn't is because the town has fouled up taking care of the grass."


chalmers said:


The one group I can't understand is the "Grass can work just fine on DeHart (and perhaps other fields) for what we need. The reason it hasn't is because the town has fouled up taking care of the grass."

The grass will never be in good condition at DeHart.  The reconstruction of the field was completely botched by the contractor. I'm surprised the Town didn't do more to get some kind of compensation.  The field does not drain correctly and never will unless it's dug up again and fixed.


Mr Mayor McGeehee you were quoted by news media outlets as saying that all taxpayers in Maplewood are equal well if this is true then put this issue of astro turfing DeHart Park to a vote by the tax payers. Otherwise your statement is meaningless. Let The People Decide!!!


yahooyahoo said:

The grass will never be in good condition at DeHart.  The reconstruction of the field was completely botched by the contractor. I'm surprised the Town didn't do more to get some kind of compensation.  The field does not drain correctly and never will unless it's dug up again and fixed.

 So the grass is not the issue...its the drainage. Will the astro turf drain any better? Is it justifiable to add to global warming by astro turfing the field if there is no proper drainage? How about all the studies that show children are getting cancer at higher rates than adults... it has been suggested there may be a connection.


ASTRO TURF MAY CAUSE CANCER IN CHILDREN-SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT....

By Stuart Shalat

March 18, 2017

If you want to get a soccer mom’s attention, bring up the subject of artificial turf, the preferred playing surface for children from pre-K to college — preferred, at least, by school boards and parks and recreation departments.

With concerns about concussions and cancer, parents have become alarmed by reports in the media of increased injuries and illnesses.

And there is the further question of who is responsible for assuring the safety of these fields: The Environmental Protection Agency? The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention? The Consumer Product Safety Commission?

As an environmental health professor who has examined a variety of environmental problems and as a soccer dad who watched my son play on these fields for years, I think it’s worth examining the facts and myths about artificial-turf fields and what hazards may or may not be associated with playing on them. Based on studies I have reviewed and conducted, I believe there is a potential health risk because of the chemicals in tires, which are recycled into crumbs to support the plastic blades of synthetic grass.

Artificial turf is made up of three major parts:

1. Backing material that will serve to hold the individual blades of artificial grass.

2. The plastic blades themselves.

3. The infill, those tiny black crumbs, that helps support the blades.

Various pigments are used to provide the green color of the blades. These can include lead or titanium for the white lines and still other metals for school logos on the field.

Those little black crumbs are the problems. Tires can be toxic.

Modern tires are a mixture of natural and synthetic rubber, carbon black — a material made from petroleum — and somewhere between four and 10 gallons of petroleum products. They also contain metals, including cadmium, lead, which is neurotoxic, and zinc.

Some of the chemicals in tires, such as dibenzopyrenes, are known carcinogens.

Also, in addition to chemicals used in the manufacture of the tire, any chemical the tires were exposed to in their use can become absorbed on the carbon black in the tires.

Also, artificial turf is often treated with biocides, as turf has been associated with increased risk of infections from methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus. MRSA is a dangerous infection because it is resistant to many antibiotics. It can lead to pneumonia, sepsis and bloodstream infections that can prove fatal. An MRSA infection can happen after skin is scraped or cut, which can occur from sliding on artificial turf.


closedehartparkatsunset said:

ASTRO TURF MAY CAUSE CANCER IN CHILDREN-SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT....

By Stuart Shalat

March 18, 2017

If you want to get a soccer mom’s attention, bring up the subject of artificial turf, the preferred playing surface for children from pre-K to college — preferred, at least, by school boards and parks and recreation departments.

With concerns about concussions and cancer, parents have become alarmed by reports in the media of increased injuries and illnesses.

And there is the further question of who is responsible for assuring the safety of these fields: The Environmental Protection Agency? The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention? The Consumer Product Safety Commission?

As an environmental health professor who has examined a variety of environmental problems and as a soccer dad who watched my son play on these fields for years, I think it’s worth examining the facts and myths about artificial-turf fields and what hazards may or may not be associated with playing on them. Based on studies I have reviewed and conducted, I believe there is a potential health risk because of the chemicals in tires, which are recycled into crumbs to support the plastic blades of synthetic grass.

Artificial turf is made up of three major parts:

1. Backing material that will serve to hold the individual blades of artificial grass.

2. The plastic blades themselves.

3. The infill, those tiny black crumbs, that helps support the blades.

Various pigments are used to provide the green color of the blades. These can include lead or titanium for the white lines and still other metals for school logos on the field.

Those little black crumbs are the problems. Tires can be toxic.

Modern tires are a mixture of natural and synthetic rubber, carbon black — a material made from petroleum — and somewhere between four and 10 gallons of petroleum products. They also contain metals, including cadmium, lead, which is neurotoxic, and zinc.

Some of the chemicals in tires, such as dibenzopyrenes, are known carcinogens.

Also, in addition to chemicals used in the manufacture of the tire, any chemical the tires were exposed to in their use can become absorbed on the carbon black in the tires.

Also, artificial turf is often treated with biocides, as turf has been associated with increased risk of infections from methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus. MRSA is a dangerous infection because it is resistant to many antibiotics. It can lead to pneumonia, sepsis and bloodstream infections that can prove fatal. An MRSA infection can happen after skin is scraped or cut, which can occur from sliding on artificial turf.

 if parents are truly concerned about this they should not allow their kids to play outdoor sports at all. Even if Maplewood doesn't install an artificial turf field, kids will be playing on artificial surfaces when they play games in other towns. 




MORE  ABOUT ASTRO TURF CAUSING CANCER IN CHILDREN...

What are Artificial Turf and Playgrounds Made Of? Can They Cause Cancer? Obesity? Asthma?

Diana Zuckerman, PhD, National Center for Health Research

Is your child playing on rubber and plastic instead of grass? Grass has been replaced with artificial materials at schools and parks all over the country and especially in Washington D.C., Maryland, and Virginia. but there is growing evidence they can be harmful to children and adults.

Regardless of what they look like, all artificial fields and playgrounds are made with materials that can be dangerous to people of all ages.

Many athletes don’t like artificial turf, and only 2 professional ballparks now use it. In addition to plastic “grass,” rubber, silica, and other materials are used to keep the “grass” in place and provide more cushioning. Unfortunately, artificial turf increases “turf burn” abrasions from sliding, puts additional stress on joints, and can become dangerously hot in the sun. It may also cause cancer and other serious long-term health problems.

Recycling Tires from Playgrounds

More than 20 million recycled rubber tires are processed every year for playground surface cover and sports surfaces. Using tire scraps seemed like a great idea at first – keeping them out of landfills and providing a potentially softer landing on the playground. It was known that burning old tires released harmful, smelly chemicals into the air and ground water, but parents didn’t realize that recycled tires and new rubber used on fields and playgrounds can also be dangerous. You may think of rubber as a natural product from rubber trees – but rubber is a mix of latex from rubber trees mixed with petroleum products. That means it can include lead, phthalates, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), volatile organic compounds (VOCs), and other chemicals known or suspected to harm human health. For example, phthalates are chemicals that affect hormones and many have been banned from children’s toys because they can increase the risks of obesity, early puberty, attention problems, and cancer. The EPA warns that breathing air contaminated with PAHs may increase the chance of developing cancer, and the U.S. Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry warns that PAHs may increase the risk of cancer and birth defects.

Why Aren’t They Proven Safe?

There is no government agency that requires synthetic playground surfaces to be tested before they can be sold. In fact, the materials used are often not made public — justified as “trade secrets.” However, some researchers independently have examined the safety of these playground surfaces, resulting in signs like this "Warning do not eat infill mix in artificial turf as it may be harmful to your health."

It would not be ethical to conduct a study exposing children to tire shreds, knowing they could be unsafe, so the California Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment conducted three studies that mimicked children’s exposures instead. Results showed that a single incident of eating or touching tire shreds would probably not harm a child’s health, but repeated or long-term exposure might. Five chemicals, including four PAHs, would get on children’s skin if they played on these surfaces. One of the PAHs, “chrysene,” was higher than the level considered safe, and could increase the chances of a child developing cancer.

In addition, only 10 of the 32 playgrounds studied met California’s safety standard for falls, which meant that falling on these hard surfaces could cause a brain injury of other serious harm. In contrast, all five surfaces made of wood chips met the safety standard.

In Washington, D.C., 37 of their 51 artificial turf fields failed 2017 safety tests, due to hardness scores above 165 (see the sign above). In 2019, Washington, D.C. admitted that 17 of their playgrounds have dangerously high levels of lead. Also in 2019, the nonprofit Ecology Center tested the crumb rubber that was found on the broken rubber surfaces of several playgrounds in Washington, D.C. They found that some of the pieces had dangerously high levels of lead.

A 2015 report by Yale scientists analyzed 14 different samples used for school athletic fields and playgrounds. They detected 96 chemicals, most of which have never been carefully studied, so their health risks are unknown. However, 20% of the chemicals that had been tested are considered to probably cause cancer. In addition, 40% are irritants that can cause breathing problems such as asthma, and can irritate skin or eyes. 


What About your Schools or Parks?

These are a few of the many materials to be concerned about:

  • Loose tire shred (rubber mulch) or “crumb” on a surface that can be raked, including artificial “grass” fields.
  • Tire shreds that are combined with a binder and then poured onto a permanent surface.
  • Tiles made from tire shreds and binder that have been factory-molded, then glued to a playground surface.
  • Colorful rubber that is “poured in place” (PIP), which is not necessarily made from tires but can contain many of the same dangerous materials. 
  • How to Protect your Children
    Children are much more likely to be harmed by exposure to chemicals in their environment than adults because they are smaller (so the exposure is greater) and because their bodies are still developing. Pregnant women should be even more careful to avoid these exposures.
    Parents in many communities are persuading local officials to conduct safety tests on artificial turf fields every year, and to install grass or wood chips because they are safer in terms of chemical exposure, heat, and if their children fall. 

  • That’s why our Center has testified before the Washington, D.C. City Council and the Maryland Senate and House of Delegates and why we are working with parents across the country who seek our help in convincing their communities to choose grass and avoid artificial turf.


  • Meanwhile, here are some tips for parents from the Consumer Product Safety Commission:
    1. Children should avoid mouth contact with playground surfacing materials. Some of these materials are small and look like seeds, mulch, or small candies. They may pose a choking hazard as well as a dangerous chemical exposure.
    2. Avoid eating food or drinking beverages while directly on playground surfaces, and wash hands before handling food.
    3. Limit the time at a playground on hot days. Children tell us they can often see the heat waves rising off the fields on warm, sunny days.
    4. Clean hands and other exposed skin after visiting the playground, and consider changing clothes if marks or dust from the rubber is visible on fabrics.
    5. Clean any toys that were used on a playground after the visit.
    These safeguards will help reduce your child’s exposure, but if they are playing on one of these fields or playgrounds for hours every week, there is still reason for concern.


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