Teen Concerns
Con: I am so sorry to hear about your nephew. But, truly, are you surprised?? He has grown up in a highly dysfunctional environment his entire life. He is at extreme risk for all sorts of bad things. The only thing that will be helpful is taking ALL the kids out of the environment. You take them or get DYFS (or whatever the NY equivalent is) involved.
No, you don't go to the school counselor. The school is not your friend when it comes to these matters. In fact I am surprised the school has not reported the parental neglect to DYFS already, as they are mandatory reporters. It's not a drug abuse counselor that he needs. He needs severe, intense psychological and psychiatric intervention. Immediately. To save his life. He will soon be 18, and then you have ZERO control. Parents are not even entitled to see his medical records or education records after he turns 18. There is zero legal control over him once he reaches that magic age. I thought you had him seeing a psychiatrist? You can't let him refuse. You have to find a way to make it happen.
You know, I know so little about pot it is pathetic. Just know it is much stronger than when I was of an age
There is a world of difference between being caught with one or two oz's. That is recreational use
But to be caught with half a pound makes you a dealer, whether you are or not
In the 60's we used but were largely paranoid about it
Where is the paranoia when you need it?
And? Not following.
It was not dealer amounts but it was not an I try it occasionally 1/2 joint either.
author said:
You know, I know so little about pot it is pathetic. Just know it is much stronger than when I was of an age
There is a world of difference between being caught with one or two oz's. That is recreational use
But to be caught with half a pound makes you a dealer, whether you are or not
In the 60's we used but were largely paranoid about it
Where is the paranoia when you need it?
"He needs severe, intense psychological and psychiatric intervention". A bit extreme, but I'll play along. How so? Are you really suggesting placement in a psychiatric facility for a kid with some failing grades and recent pot use? If do, please elaborate on how/where. I'm listening.
I would love nothing more that to remove & raise the kids. It is not that simple. I have been advised by countless lawyers and social workers that I would lose- the threshold of abuse/neglect is much higher (sadly) than what is experienced. My odds have been rated as anywhere from a 1-5% chance of success. So, if I pursue that route given those odds, the end result will almost definitely be me never being allowed to see them again. Unacceptable risk.
conandrob240 said:
Why aren't school counselors your friends in these matters?
When it comes to matters like this, school districts protect their own interests. Not the interest of the child, sadly. Once you tell a school official that your nephew is a user and the drugs were in his school backpack, you have given them reasonable cause for a search.
conandrob240 said:
"He needs severe, intense psychological and psychiatric intervention". A bit extreme, but I'll play along. How so? Are you really suggesting placement in a psychiatric facility for a kid with some failing grades and recent pot use? If do, please elaborate on how/where. I'm listening.
Because every two months or so you ask advice about another heartbreaking problem. And you have given us the details of his upbringing and history. No, I do not mean placing him in a psych facility. Some possibilities include: 1. Sending him to a therapeutic school. Day or residential. 2. Therapy 2-3 times a week. 3. Therapeutic after-school teen program.
Remember: You have until he's 18. Then you/the parents have ZERO options.
Okay, I get it. He's 4 1/2 months away from graduation so school options maybe limited but counseling certainly is possible.
Okay, he likes his counselor at school so I thought maybe coming from her maybe impactful. If we go this route, I'll discuss in "possibly" terms rather than we found ..." terms. Honestly after this confrontation, if he still carries anything in his bag to school, getting caught might not be so bad.
shoshannah said:
conandrob240 said:
Why aren't school counselors your friends in these matters?
When it comes to matters like this, school districts protect their own interests. Not the interest of the child, sadly. Once you tell a school official that your nephew is a user and the drugs were in his school backpack, you have given them reasonable cause for a search.
conandrob240 said:
Okay, I get it. He's 4 1/2 months away from graduation so school options maybe limited but counseling certainly is possible.
When does he turn 18? If he's refusing therapy now and you can't find a way to convince him, once he turns 18 then you're really done. I can't emphasize that enough. You have to find a way to have sway over him to get him in with a therapist he trusts and wants to continue with. If not now, then at 18 it's goodbye nephew. You are out of options.
You said he failed 4 of 8 classes. Is graduation realistic?
conandrob240 said:
Okay, I get it. He's 4 1/2 months away from graduation so school options maybe limited but counseling certainly is possible.
Yes, he got 60s and 61s just in this 2nd marking period and his other marking period he passed everything so its just one semester's worth of failing so he could definitely graduate. there are 2 more marking periods left. But if this continues one more period, chances get slim. Right now, he could correct by just handing in the work. If he made that effort, I am sure they would have passed him even if he did poorly on the tests.
He turns 18 in 4 months and 6 days. I appreciate your ideas, I really do, shoshannah and I will take them to heart. But I'd ask you to re-consider saying to me "it's goodbye nephew". I am already really concerned but I don't think panic is going to help anyone right now.
OK. I KNOW this kid. I think a lot of people did. A generally good kid who is a bit less social than some of his peers who isn't particularly interested in school and is trying to find his way without some of the structure most take for granted.
As others have pointed out, he's not 14. A lot of the tough love scare stuff won't work anymore.
Two things this kid absolutely needs to know, right now-
1) No matter how things look today, no matter how the weight of bad decisions, bad grades, failures disappointments or embarrassments grind him down, there is always, always time to turn it around- whether it's in the school year or by taking a few semesters at county college or whatever. Almost nothing forecloses on his future.
2) I said almost. Hurting someone or getting caught with a good volume of drugs both slam the door on a lot of future options for him, and they tend to be the better options. He's not going to stop smoking weed any time soon. He will grow out of it an leave it behind as children do, but not today. Tell him to make sure he doesn't get frickin caught and that he doesn't do something stupid like going for a drive after ripping a few bong hits. NOT walking around with more weed than he could possibly smoke in a day is a good start.
There are ALOT of people who felt down like he does right now at that age. Remarkably, if they avoid flying the plane into the ground till their early 20's a switch goes off, they see how big the world is and they're ok. At 17, it's tough.
Thank you so much. We just had an intense texting session. In the midst of all this, he has been saying to my mother that he's going to CA after graduation because "it's calling him" lol. My mother is freaking out. The texting to me today started with "Do you think I am ready to live on my own in CA?". I can't tell you how excited I was to see that text!!! He's being logical and thoughtful and wants me to help him! It opened a big door and we just texted about all of this. I told him as I see it right now- failing subjects due to not trying, walking around with a bag of pot- no, I do not think he is quite ready yet but I have no doubt he can get there. So, he wants to know how he can get ready and how he can succeed in college and life and wants my help. He has never actively reached out before like this. Good sign. He wants to have a roadmap or list of things to do to get ready so we can talk school, smoking and a bunch of other stuff as part of the readiness test.
conandrob240 said:
Okay, he likes his counselor at school so I thought maybe coming from her maybe impactful. If we go this route, I'll discuss in "possibly" terms rather than we found ..." terms. Honestly after this confrontation, if he still carries anything in his bag to school, getting caught might not be so bad.
shoshannah said:
conandrob240 said:
Why aren't school counselors your friends in these matters?
When it comes to matters like this, school districts protect their own interests. Not the interest of the child, sadly. Once you tell a school official that your nephew is a user and the drugs were in his school backpack, you have given them reasonable cause for a search.
Is the guidance counselor required to report use of drugs? I don't believe they have the same confidentiality requirements as a therapist, lawyer or clergy.
Of immediate concern is the volume of drugs... as pointed out above, enough to be classified as a dealer = prison.
Also, have you considered that he might be dealing?
If he only had $800 it would be tough to become a dealer. That will only get you about 1 oz (at least so I have been told). I agree though if he is dealing, that is a much larger issue. Good luck.
conandrob240 said:
He turns 18 in 4 months and 6 days. I appreciate your ideas, I really do, shoshannah and I will take them to heart. But I'd ask you to re-consider saying to me "it's goodbye nephew". I am already really concerned but I don't think panic is going to help anyone right now.
OK. Sorry about that. I just can't say it strongly enough that at 18 you can never again make him do anything and you have no legal right to any information. I know from what I am saying based on members of my extended family.
At 17, i believe the legal guardian can sign him into in patient care. Punishment doesn't have a good track record with drugs. there must be a drug hotline you can call for expert advice anonymously on how to approach this.
What isn't discussed enough is that while pot was 'safe' a few generations ago. Over the decades it has been genetically bred to be much more potent and street dealers typically mix it with more potent and dangerous stuff...so unless you are growing it yourself...you really don't know what you are getting. Often the dealer with mix it with something highly addictive to drum up more business.
Although there is nothing one could do legally it sounds as if there is leverage in terms of providing support and resources (e.g. money).
shoshannah said:
conandrob240 said:
He turns 18 in 4 months and 6 days. I appreciate your ideas, I really do, shoshannah and I will take them to heart. But I'd ask you to re-consider saying to me "it's goodbye nephew". I am already really concerned but I don't think panic is going to help anyone right now.
OK. Sorry about that. I just can't say it strongly enough that at 18 you can never again make him do anything and you have no legal right to any information. I know from what I am saying based on members of my extended family.
it was nowhere near enough to be dealer level nor was any dealer paraphernalia uncovered. My point was that if it was a one-time use you might find a part joint or some small amount. A pipe, bong, papers and a small sandwich bag negates the "I tried it once" route.
My mother is friends with a counselor at another school who assured her of confidentiality. She spoke to my nephews guidance counselor at his high school this afternoon and felt good about it. The counselor meets with him onnThursdsys and will discuss it as part of their session tomorrow. She also scheduled a session for him with the school's drug/alcohol awareness counselor. The counselor felt removing it, having a few conversations about the dangers, meeting with the extra counselor and getting a commitment to make up all misssed school work over next two weeks was the right intervention at this point. And then revisit it again in a few weeks.
and short of psychiatric commitment, contrary to some opinions, you can't make a 17 1/2 year old do much really anyway. You can make appointments, get him there but you can't make him engage.
does he have any interest in the military? Getting away for two years might really help him.
I agree both Military or just getting a job are good ideas. College may well be a waste of time and re$sources.
You can always go in a year or 2. You might tell him that before moving to CA he should work here and get some experience ..
FilmCarp said:
does he have any interest in the military? Getting away for two years might really help him.
In the grand scheme of things, a little weed is not a big thing. Bad? Yes. But many, many, many, many of his peers and, I daresay, elders (cough cough) managed to get stoned a few times, or more than a few, without spiralling into homelessness.
My suggestion would not be to get too focused on the weed. Dont necessarily tell him that! You don't have to minimize your displeasure with that choice he's made. But rather than focusing on the weed focus on the WHY. Why is he smoking as much as he is (and if he is carrying a bong everywhere face it- he's smoking a lot)?
I think you already know. He's sad. Probably in the tough way teens get sad. He'll likely be fine- but "likely" I am sure is not good enough for you, nor should it be.
Life gets better as you get older if you let it. He needs to know that. He needs to understand that some (not all) of the things that keep him up at night today in 5 years will be things he laughs about. He just needs to make it from here to there without crashing. It's hard to get young people to see that but if you can get him to he'll be ok.
It might have been a consideration but with Trump as President, he'd have to shoot me before I'd let him enlist.
FilmCarp said:
does he have any interest in the military? Getting away for two years might really help him.
Not overly concerned about wasting a few resources to try out community college. Getting work experience is definitely on his must do list. If he prefers that to trying college, I can get on board for that.
SOguy said:
I agree both Military or just getting a job are good ideas. College may well be a waste of time and re$sources.
You can always go in a year or 2. You might tell him that before moving to CA he should work here and get some experience ..
FilmCarp said:
does he have any interest in the military? Getting away for two years might really help him.
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Teen is 17. Has never done well in school usually struggles and just barely passes math. Also has always had an effort issue (not doing assignments). Past few weeks, not doing any homework and just failed 4 of 8 classes. Kid's grandmother (basically the primary caregiver- father is absent and doesn't speak to kid and mother may as well not be around) suspicious of behavior past few weeks asks him last week if he's tried pot. Kid admits yes, tried it once or twice. Grandmother gives calm lecture on use and warnings, I do the same. Last night, grandmother finds backpack filled with stuff- a large bag of pot and some smaller containers, bong and other stuff. Kid has been carrying around in backpack everywhere and quantity of stuff indicates this isn't a one time trying it kind of thing. She gets angry at him, takes it all away (of course) and tells him he could have been arrested for walking around with that or suspended from school. He isn't combative and he actually tries to explain a bit about what he's going through (feels abandoned, parents divorce and so on). She tells him she wants all the $ he has saved so she can put it in bank. He says its all gone (also concerning because I know for sure around Christmastime he had at least $800). It ends after a while with him saying he wants to go to sleep so they end the conversation.
I am a bit less old school than my mother and understand that kids try pot but what she found concerns me deeply as the kid has always been somewhat unhappy, depressed, low self-esteem. He has been more social lately and has been going out with friends more (he has traditionally been a loner)- so I guess that had a good side but a dark side also. On the surface, he has seemed happier, more engaged in life and more social lately so we were excited for him. But when the grades started falling, a deeper look revealed failing and this drug use.
What's the next move here? Go to his school guidance counselor? If so, hypothetically or with all the facts? Get him a counseling session with a therapist specializing in drug/alcohol? He tried a teen therapist last year as parents were divorcing. Went a few times and then just refused. He has been seeing school guidance counselor regularly (about the failing scores/missing assignments). Punishment? Please advise with what you would do. Looking for a whole host of options to consider.
(Assume the grandmother is the parent and that the parents have no role. Advice to get parents involved is not needed. It has been done but they don't care. Father says its not his problem. Mother says "big deal". I wouldn't be surprised if they even encouraged it although teen tells grandmother they did not know and he did not get it from them). (I'll add he is the biological child of an addictive mother (life long addict, heroin, crack, alcohol and in and out of jail) and is/was raised by a mother and father with addictive tendencies and emotional issues so this is super-scary on that level as well)