South Mountain Tavern closed

I think it hasn't been open for a while but now I see it's reported closed on Yelp which I guess makes it official.  

I was just at The Snug downstairs a couple of weeks ago, so I don't know if they are still operational or not. It's a shame that they couldn't find the right formula for success in that space.

Village Tavern or One South (formerly Above) -- same issues.  overpriced, inconsistent service and average food.  Both places are large spaces and ownership at both places could not figure it out.  

Let's hope a good restaurateur comes in and turns it into something successful.

My usual response to this.

Rumor is the liquor license cost $500K for the owners of Ricalton's (South Mountain Tavern) to acquire. I think that's a huge hill for a new business to climb right at the starting line. Of course your prices will be inflated if you're saddled with half a million to pay back.

I think the state's liquor license laws have strangled some potential developments in the two towns. 

mrincredible said:
My usual response to this.
Rumor is the liquor license cost $500K for the owners of Ricalton's (South Mountain Tavern) to acquire. I think that's a huge hill for a new business to climb right at the starting line. Of course your prices will be inflated if you're saddled with half a million to pay back.
I think the state's liquor license laws have strangled some potential developments in the two towns. 

I agree, but was also surprised the first time I went there how basic the bar was, nothing particularly new and different on the shelves and a very bland cocktail menu, things like Manhattans and Cosmopolitans. At a time of creative craft cocktails, distilleries and breweries the bars there seemed pretty dated.

Aside from the $500k or whatever they paid for the liquor license, I'm sure they sank a pretty penny into the building renovation. Given the initial capital outlay, someone must have mapped out some pretty optimistic revenue projections for that place to ever have opened its doors. 

Ric's started out with promise IMO but then settled into uneven/meh and it didn't take long for many folks to write it off, given the price point. The rebooted SMT may have been at least marginally better but it never really got any traction or separation from the old place, at least in people's minds. 

I do remember the last time I ate there was a little before Christmas last year -- actually had excellent steak frites at a reasonable price and with good service. But the place was oddly empty at dinnertime.   

If someone put in a quality children’s menu (or posted one at all), it might be easier to fill that very large space, especially on weeknights.  We are eager to have places for family dinner with liquor license, and most of the restaurants that have failed in that space have ignored that market.

Plus what others have said about interesting bar and consistent food.

Building was already renovated by previous owner so that outlay was minimal.  And if the food/service had been good the place would  have attracted more customers.  I tried it more three times --- just overpriced mediocrity.  They would have been smarter to just bring back the stuft shirt menu and drop the pretense of being something they were not.  The place would have been packed instead of seeing 100 empty seats at 8pm.  

The closing saddens me.  I really feel for the owner, who surely has had a lot of dreams dashed.  

Sigh.  This is yet another episode to make me wonder why it is that South Orange just can't have a good (or even average) restaurant scene.  

Personally I'm not big on "tavern food," but I always wanted to go to South Mountain Tavern just to support a South Orange restaurant, but there was literally nothing on the entree menu that was vegetarian.

http://www.southmountaintavern.com/menu/

Runner_Guy said:
The closing saddens me.  I really feel for the owner, who surely has had a lot of dreams dashed.  
Sigh.  This is yet another episode to make me wonder why it is that South Orange just can't have a good (or even average) restaurant scene.  
Personally I'm not big on "tavern food," but I always wanted to go to South Mountain Tavern just to support a South Orange restaurant, but there was literally nothing on the entree menu that was vegetarian.
http://www.southmountaintavern.com/menu/

 Yeah. You'd see the owner engage people on various social media and everyone would mention lack of non-meat items. He'd maybe give a little lip service and then disappear.

On top of that, while the beer selection wasn't as bad as it possibly could be, there was very little to excite anyone that really wants a proper craft beer selection.

Runner_Guy said:
The closing saddens me.  I really feel for the owner, who surely has had a lot of dreams dashed.  
Sigh.  This is yet another episode to make me wonder why it is that South Orange just can't have a good (or even average) restaurant scene.  
Personally I'm not big on "tavern food," but I always wanted to go to South Mountain Tavern just to support a South Orange restaurant, but there was literally nothing on the entree menu that was vegetarian.
http://www.southmountaintavern.com/menu/

 I think we do have an average restaurant scene, because I dine in the average places.  I simply can't afford high end places.  I'm sad that they are gone, but I think there are some good restaurants around. 

In regards to a kid’s menu, I’d rather see restaurants offer child sized portions of their regular food instead of just having a kids menu with chicken nuggets and grilled cheese sandwiches.  My kids will actually eat a varied diet, it just pains me to pay for an adult sized portion to feed to a five year old who won’t even be able to finish half of it, and the child menu options at many places is limited to the normal expected “safe” foods.

It's such an awesome location  it's hard to believe nobody can be successful at it. I agree about the menu being uninspiring and the food average. 

I used to go there to watch Sunday football because the bar was pretty well set up for it, and it was never all that crowded. A week or two ago I went, saw it was closed and stuck my head in downstairs. They're still open but they don't have the football subscription. 

Here's my restaurant idea, although it's more obviously a Maplewood restaurant: A fish restaurant partnered with Freeman's Fish Market. The Freeman's name has great equity and presumably they could provide valuable advice and connections. To get a liquor license in Maplewood you'd probably have to murder someone, so South Orange may be the answer

Bonefish Grill - except parking would be a problem. 

cramer said:
Bonefish Grill - except parking would be a problem. 

 That's interesting. It was pretty unremarkable, but there were a few things on the bar menu that I quite liked.  The parking in that area probably cannot support another big restaurant in the evening.

angelak said:

cramer said:
Bonefish Grill - except parking would be a problem. 

 That's interesting. It [South Mountain Tavern] was pretty unremarkable, but there were a few things on the bar menu that I quite liked.  The parking in that area probably cannot support another big restaurant in the evening.

Fixed it for you - I think.  

The upstairs I gave up on shortly after it opened, Snug was ok. Never felt that either the front of the house or kitchen was well run.

Once new restaurant opens in village hall, which is from a truly seasoned and successful restaurant group, other so so places in the area are going to have to up their game or likely face the same fate.

Boccone South is our favorite restaurant and is consistently excellent.  If the Blockbuster site is redeveloped, I hope that it will be able to find a new location in South Orange.

eta - One of things that makes Boccone South so good is the professionalism of its wait staff. Other restaurants which hope to do well can take a lesson. 

peteglider said:
The upstairs I gave up on shortly after it opened, Snug was ok. Never felt that either the front of the house or kitchen was well run.
Once new restaurant opens in village hall, which is from a truly seasoned and successful restaurant group, other so so places in the area are going to have to up their game or likely face the same fate.

 The problem with the new Village Hall spot is that for those of us complaining about the lack of vegetarian fare is that if you look at the menus for other Landmark restaurants there isn't any real vegetarian options there either. I mean, I'm sure we can count on pretzels in the beer garden area, but it's always nice to be able to eat in a restaurant. Hopefully the'll learn enough about the people that populate the area they're in, but I don't hold out a lot of hope.

The idea of turning the Tavern into a fish resto appeals to me; I miss the one we used to enjoy in S.O. (name escapes me), and think that a really good BIG seafood place - with or W/O a market - could be a regional draw, which is just what this space probably requires to succeed anyhow. Just my two cents...

-s.

soda said:
The idea of turning the Tavern into a fish resto appeals to me; I miss the one we used to enjoy in S.O. (name escapes me), and think that a really good BIG seafood place - with or W/O a market - could be a regional draw, which is just what this space probably requires to succeed anyhow. Just my two cents...
-s.

Sinclairs, on First St.(or was it Third?) Closed about 20 years ago. I miss it too.  

I think they need something unique to draw people in.  I would turn the bottom floor into a game space. 

I was recently at a Spin - great concept: https://newyork.wearespin.com/

I sent an email to Sheena suggesting Bonefish Grill for the space, saying that parking might be a problem. 

Can't hurt. 

cramer said:

soda said:
The idea of turning the Tavern into a fish resto appeals to me; I miss the one we used to enjoy in S.O. (name escapes me), and think that a really good BIG seafood place - with or W/O a market - could be a regional draw, which is just what this space probably requires to succeed anyhow. Just my two cents...
-s.

Sinclairs, on First St.(or was it Third?) Closed about 20 years ago. I miss it too.  

 Yes, First Street, where Town Hall Deli is, or next door.  We miss it too, from our early days in town.

Fish resto, good idea. Chain resto, meh. 

I don't think a place like Bonefish would ever want that spot though, they seem to mostly be in standalone places on highways. 

Smedley said:
Fish resto, good idea. Chain resto, meh. 
I don't think a place like Bonefish would ever want that spot though, they seem to mostly be in standalone places on highways. 

Bonefish is a chain, but not meh. Your mileage may differ.  

They do seem to be in standalone's on the highway (and the parking lots have been overflowing in the two we've been to.)

I think a good model would be Coda in Maplewood.  Coda's food is ok (about same as Ricalton's/South Mountain Tavern), but at a lower price point, and the place is consistently packed. Most people don't want to spend $28-40 per entree, plus tax and tip, on a consistent basis.

mrincredible said:
My usual response to this.
Rumor is the liquor license cost $500K for the owners of Ricalton's (South Mountain Tavern) to acquire. I think that's a huge hill for a new business to climb right at the starting line. Of course your prices will be inflated if you're saddled with half a million to pay back.
I think the state's liquor license laws have strangled some potential developments in the two towns. 

 Naw, people buy things they really can not afford all the time. 

Baldwin said:

mrincredible said:
My usual response to this.
Rumor is the liquor license cost $500K for the owners of Ricalton's (South Mountain Tavern) to acquire. I think that's a huge hill for a new business to climb right at the starting line. Of course your prices will be inflated if you're saddled with half a million to pay back.
I think the state's liquor license laws have strangled some potential developments in the two towns. 

 Naw, people buy things they really can not afford all the time. 

 A fact that usually comes back to bite most of us on the behind. And I have to imagine if you're trying to run a business and one of your costs is artificially inflated it's going to artificially inflate all of your prices.

I have a feeling if the same food was offered at South Mountain Tavern for about 25% less cost, a lot more people might have returned there. But I don't know if that would have been enough to keep the lights on. It's a catch-22 of doing business. You gotta charge enough to make back your investment, but if you charge too much the customers stay away.

apple44 said:

mrincredible said:
My usual response to this.
Rumor is the liquor license cost $500K for the owners of Ricalton's (South Mountain Tavern) to acquire. I think that's a huge hill for a new business to climb right at the starting line. Of course your prices will be inflated if you're saddled with half a million to pay back.
I think the state's liquor license laws have strangled some potential developments in the two towns. 

I agree, but was also surprised the first time I went there how basic the bar was, nothing particularly new and different on the shelves and a very bland cocktail menu, things like Manhattans and Cosmopolitans. At a time of creative craft cocktails, distilleries and breweries the bars there seemed pretty dated.

 Plenty of other successful restaurants in the area that serve liquor.  I don't think the license is the primary problem.