Seth Boyden teacher accused of removing student's hijab during class

ridski said:

Without getting into specifics, it’s surely possible to defend one person without having to attack the character of the other person, yes?

 

drummerboy said:

 They are "Echo-Friendly"

 I guess not.


Formerlyjerseyjack said:

 So we have one person who is a follower of a religion based on racism (Read: "The Autobiography of Malcolm X."

And you read it in a Holiday Inn Express, so you know all about Islam.


It's funny to me that earlier posts in this thread pointed out what a cesspool FB is.  Yet that thread full of venom and speculation has been removed while this thread full of ignorance, speculation, criticism, and discussion by people who seem to be 20 years behind on cultural issues is still going strong.  Which platform is the worse one, again?


DanDietrich said:

It's funny to me that earlier posts in this thread pointed out what a cesspool FB is.  Yet that thread full of venom and speculation has been removed while this thread full of ignorance, speculation, criticism, and discussion by people who seem to be 20 years behind on cultural issues is still going strong.  Which platform is the worse one, again?

 Er, FB. Obviously.  Surprised you can't tell the difference. 


DaveSchmidt said:

And you read it in a Holiday Inn Express, so you know all about Islam.

 I don’t know all about Islam. I do know about The Nation of Islam.


Carry on.


I expect one outcome of this will be some younger people learning about the implications of their statements and actions, especially on social media. 

Will some older people here miss that learning opportunity?


DanDietrich said:

It's funny to me that earlier posts in this thread pointed out what a cesspool FB is.  Yet that thread full of venom and speculation has been removed while this thread full of ignorance, speculation, criticism, and discussion by people who seem to be 20 years behind on cultural issues is still going strong.  Which platform is the worse one, again?

 also, I don't know what version of FB you're looking at, but I still see  lots of venom and speculation there.

https://www.facebook.com/ibtihajmuhammadusa/posts/407611287399704


Formerlyjerseyjack said:

I don’t know all about Islam. I do know about The Nation of Islam.

If Muhammad has said anything about being a follower, I can’t find it. I did find this, about her mother:

I would often see Inayah at school waiting to meet a teacher or the principal. She was always there for her kids. While doing research on African American women in Islam, I interviewed, Inayah about her life in Islam and it was then, that she told me about her transition from the Nation of Islam to ‘Orthodox’ Islam as she called it.

Like Malcolm X who realized that the religious teachings of the Elijah Muhammad were wrong, instead of leaving Islam altogether, she made the shift from one world to the next. “We learned how to pronounce our names properly, learned to pray and know about the basics of Islam. It was a challenge, but we stuck with it,” she told me. Hence, Ibtihaj was born into a family that holds Islam dear.

ridski said:

ridski said:

Without getting into specifics, it’s surely possible to defend one person without having to attack the character of the other person, yes?

 

drummerboy said:

 They are "Echo-Friendly"

 I guess not.

 That's a character attack? sheesh.


Formerlyjerseyjack said:

DaveSchmidt said:

And you read it in a Holiday Inn Express, so you know all about Islam.

 I don’t know all about Islam. I do know about The Nation of Islam.

Carry on.

 Muhammad is not a member of the Nation of Islam.

You're making DanDietrich look good.


drummerboy said:

That's a character attack? sheesh.

It was a gratuitous potshot at somebody’s smarts, taken by a guy who doesn’t know any better.


DaveSchmidt said:

drummerboy said:

That's a character attack? sheesh.

It was a gratuitous potshot at somebody’s smarts, taken by a guy who doesn’t know any better.

 Yes sir!

I guess that puts your cow towing post in the same category, eh?

ETA: Oh, I forgot. You know better.


STANV said:

RTrent said:

I'm surprised the police have been assigned to look into this. 

Companies where leadership is accused of being sexists or racist are investigated by law firms or civil rights agencies. Police are not called who are not well suited for this type of task. Resolving issues  like this using investigators which include experienced civil rights lawyers is usually best practice.

 I am more than surprised. It's inexcusable, IMHO, for the Bd. of Ed. or the Superintendent to not have taken responsibility to conduct an internal investigation before turning it over to the Police. What do they think their job is? It's a complete shirking of responsibility.

Why is the teachers' union not weighing in? 

You are right, school district should hire someone to investigate, independent of the police department. I am kind of surprised the PD is even investigating this at all, unless someone filed a complaint?


basil said:

 I am kind of surprised the PD is even investigating this at all, unless someone filed a complaint?

The police chief told The Village Green that the department saw the allegations on social media and was investigating “possible criminality.”



 I am kind of surprised the PD is even investigating this at all, unless someone filed a complaint?

 Possible  hate crime?  Possible eruption of violence in the community in reaction to what has been posted online?  


drummerboy said:

 Yes sir!

I guess that puts your cow towing post in the same category, eh?

ETA: Oh, I forgot. You know better.

 Is "cow towing" something that "cow-orkers" do?


I read the Autobiography of Malcolm X (not in a Holiday Inn) and remembering his writing that Islam was not racist and he discovered that fact, if I remember correctly, went he made pilgrimage to Mecca and met Muslims of all races.


nohero said:

 Is "cow towing" something that "cow-orkers" do?

 You’d have to ask @TomReingold that question.


jimmurphy said:

nohero said:

 Is "cow towing" something that "cow-orkers" do?

 You’d have to ask @TomReingold that question.

 Very true, I would bow to Mr. Reingold’s expertise in this area. One might even say that I’d kowtow. 


One of the early news articles gave the mother’s name as Zanyab Muhammad.  They seem to have corrected the last name without posting a note on the correction, which is not how legitimate news sites usually do these things.  That may have led to some confusion.  The mother’s name now appears as Zaynab Wyatt or Cassandra Wyatt.


STANV said:

I read the Autobiography of Malcolm X (not in a Holiday Inn) and remembering his writing that Islam was not racist and he discovered that fact, if I remember correctly, went he made pilgrimage to Mecca and met Muslims of all races.

 So then you would also know that that’s when he broke away from the racist Nation of Islam and why

After reading that he became a hero to me


Formerlyjerseyjack said:

DaveSchmidt said:

And you read it in a Holiday Inn Express, so you know all about Islam.

 I don’t know all about Islam. I do know about The Nation of Islam.

Carry on.

Islam and the Nation of Islam are not the same thing.

Carry on.


STANV said:

I read the Autobiography of Malcolm X (not in a Holiday Inn) and remembering his writing that Islam was not racist and he discovered that fact, if I remember correctly, went he made pilgrimage to Mecca and met Muslims of all races.

 You are correct that Islam is not racist. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad was and he taught racist ideas. Malcolm agreed with these ideas that white people, as I recall, are a defective race. Malcom later disavowed these ideas, particularly after seeing blond, blue eyed pilgrims going to Mecca.


yahooyahoo said:

Islam and the Nation of Islam are not the same thing.

Carry on.

 No ****,  Sherlock.

Edited to put a comma between **** and Sherlock.


ridski said:

Without getting into specifics, it’s surely possible to defend one person without having to attack the character of the other person, yes?

 I had an issue with my son at his school involving what appeared to be bullying.  I didn’t go to social media and start a **** storm. I called the school, they investigated, I was satisfied with the results of the investigation and how everything was handled.

Had she done the same, and went to social media after the investigation because she was unhappy with how it was handled I would understand. But she didn’t even call the school, her first instinct was to go to social media?  Sorry, no sympathy from me whatsoever and whatever **** falls back on her from this is of her own making.


spontaneous said:

ridski said:

Without getting into specifics, it’s surely possible to defend one person without having to attack the character of the other person, yes?

 I had an issue with my son at his school involving what appeared to be bullying.  I didn’t go to social media and start a **** storm. I called the school, they investigated, I was satisfied with the results of the investigation and how everything was handled.

Had she done the same, and went to social media after the investigation because she was unhappy with how it was handled I would understand. But she didn’t even call the school, her first instinct was to go to social media?  Sorry, no sympathy from me whatsoever and whatever **** falls back on her from this is of her own making.

With all due respect, but none of that matters. It also does not matter whether or not we know the teacher and whether we like her or not. Same for the mother. The only thing that matters is whether she pulled the hijab off of that student or not.


basil said:

spontaneous said:

ridski said:

Without getting into specifics, it’s surely possible to defend one person without having to attack the character of the other person, yes?

 I had an issue with my son at his school involving what appeared to be bullying.  I didn’t go to social media and start a **** storm. I called the school, they investigated, I was satisfied with the results of the investigation and how everything was handled.

Had she done the same, and went to social media after the investigation because she was unhappy with how it was handled I would understand. But she didn’t even call the school, her first instinct was to go to social media?  Sorry, no sympathy from me whatsoever and whatever **** falls back on her from this is of her own making.

With all due respect, but none of that matters. It also does not matter whether or not we know the teacher and whether we like her or not. Same for the mother. The only thing that matters is whether she pulled the hijab off of that student or not.

I would agree that, at the end of the day, the only that really matters is whether or not the allegations are true.  However, process is also important.  Starting out in the court of public outrage du jour benefits nobody.


basil said:

With all due respect, but none of that matters. It also does not matter whether or not we know the teacher and whether we like her or not. Same for the mother. The only thing that matters is whether she pulled the hijab off of that student or not.

 Watch the video.  The child says that when the teacher saw her hair she said “Oh! Oh!” And then told the child to put it back on.  This actually strengthens the teacher’s version of events where she was thought the child was wearing a headscarf under the hoodie when she asked her to put the hood of the hoodie down because it is not allowed in school.

Actually, that brings another point, the teacher said it was not allowed in school.  Yet the child has been wearing a headscarf since day one and the teacher never said anything prior to this incident.  But hoodies are not allowed to be worn up in school. It makes a lot more sense that the teacher made her put the hoodie down than she suddenly acted like an idiot and told her she wasn’t allowed to wear a hijab in school.


basil said:

spontaneous said:

ridski said:

Without getting into specifics, it’s surely possible to defend one person without having to attack the character of the other person, yes?

 I had an issue with my son at his school involving what appeared to be bullying.  I didn’t go to social media and start a **** storm. I called the school, they investigated, I was satisfied with the results of the investigation and how everything was handled.

Had she done the same, and went to social media after the investigation because she was unhappy with how it was handled I would understand. But she didn’t even call the school, her first instinct was to go to social media?  Sorry, no sympathy from me whatsoever and whatever **** falls back on her from this is of her own making.

With all due respect, but none of that matters. It also does not matter whether or not we know the teacher and whether we like her or not. Same for the mother. The only thing that matters is whether she pulled the hijab off of that student or not.

 Not sure of the point of your post. Spontaneous was just showing a more responsible way of handling this incident, and it certainly matters, because clearly people have behaved irresponsibly here, with one using her celebrity in an atrocious way.  Since the teacher apparently has police protection now, the issue has grown to something a lot more than whether a hijab was pulled of a student's head - all as a result of bad behavior by some adults.


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