Relaxing the Municipal codes?
Well, I think high rents will keep these businesses legit, and I'd like to see more variety downtown. Anything that brings people in to the businesses. I'd also like to see more doctors offices.
Well over half of Americans age 20 - 35 have tattoos. There are regular inquiries on the Facebook local groups for local tattoo parlors, and there are at least two in Montclair. It is hardly the sort of disreputable business your post implies. The median customer for paint and sip businesses are women in their thirties and forties and middle class. Personally, I would love an arcade but I do not think the business model is profitable anymore. All these uses fit our fastest growing demographic, and it makes sense to consider them as legal uses for our commercial real estate.
An arcade?? This isn’t the 1980’s! Paint and sip is cute but that’s also quite a fad now. There are no book stores or play spaces for children. Wouldn’t those be more helpful?
If they’re talking tats and games, who exactly benefits?
Annielou, the question is should these businesses be allowed. It isn't for us to determine what businesses people start. Anyone is welcome to open a bookstore or a kids playspace.
There used to be an arcade in the village decades ago. I don't recall it being such a huge issue, except for at that time smoking was allowed everywhere and the arcade was no exception. It's been a long time, and I only went in once or twice, but I believe it was at 61 South Orange Ave, upstairs.
Also, right now it has been estimated that 1 out of 3 US adults has at least one tattoo. What is so wrong about tattoo shops? They're now mainstream, it isn't just drunk sailors or bikers anymore. If South Orange or Maplewood gets a tattoo parlor with a good artist the people going in and out will very likely be your neighbors or parents from the PTA.
I think if someone really thought they could run a successful book store in downtown South Orange it would have happened already. There's at least one perfect empty space that's been dormant for a while, previously occupied by another business which was killed by the internet. In today's climate starting a book shop is a tough proposal.
You can cite Words in Maplewood as an example but I think another book store in South Orange would cannibalize Words' business and make it hard for either to survive. The two towns couldn't support two independent toy stores for instance.
I don't know the economics of a children's play space - I know we could probably have a Little Gym or something like that but again, why hasn't someone already done it? The trustees can't force someone to open one.
Are arcades making a comeback? I'd be surprised with the quality of home gaming systems which include online gaming and interactivity.
Paint and sip places may be a fad or may have some staying power. I think if the township wasn't allowing them that was an oversight. If someone wanted to have a go at opening one they should be able to and it might add something new to the downtown scene.
I'm not a fan of tattoos but max makes a good point. They're in the mainstream now. It doesn't have to be a grubby shop with a flashing neon sign on the front window.
Now if it was right next to the paint n sip, and you could drop the kids off at the play space for a few hours...
max_weisenfeld said:
Well over half of Americans age 20 - 35 have tattoos. There are regular inquiries on the Facebook local groups for local tattoo parlors, and there are at least two in Montclair. It is hardly the sort of disreputable business your post implies.
Hooray for good sense! I don't have a tattoo and don't want one, but having spent a decent amount of time at the Maplewood pool in recent years, it sure seems like a lot of folks around here do.
Words is a quasi non profit... bookstores (and probably libraries) are pretty much done for...
mrincredible said:
I think if someone really thought they could run a successful book store in downtown South Orange it would have happened already. There's at least one perfect empty space that's been dormant for a while, previously occupied by another business which was killed by the internet. In today's climate starting a book shop is a tough proposal.
You can cite Words in Maplewood as an example but I think another book store in South Orange would cannibalize Words' business and make it hard for either to survive.
Carlin: (Paraphrased) The thing now is, you have these kids walkin' around with tattoos, jewelry coming out of their ears, noses, tongues, cheeks and eyebrows. And I used to look at these specimens and say to myself, "What f...in' asshats."
Then I read where some psychologist explained how these decorations are good for the kids' egos.
So today, when I see some kid going on the street and he's looking like the "Illustrated Man," with a double AA battery suspended from each earlobe, three lug nuts out of his right cheek, a fish hook through his eyebrow and a screw driver through his lower lip, .. I can look at that kid and say to myself,
"NOW THERE"S A HAPPY GUY!"
If South Orange is going to allow tattoo parlors, it should consider what kind of health regulations can be imposed. There's evidence that certain types of tattoo ink are carcinogenic. I've been doing a little research into this because a friend's child is considering getting a tattoo, and it's disturbing how tattoo parlors in general operate with only the most basic health oversight, even though the process has ongoing health implications.
The Village President has a conflict of interest - she has a tattoo. (insert emoji)
peteglider said:
Words is a quasi non profit... bookstores (and probably libraries) are pretty much done for..
Here anyways. Independent bookstores are resurgent in areas with more balanced commercial real estate markets. The margins are just too low, however, for the local economy.
Elle_Cee said:
If South Orange is going to allow tattoo parlors, it should consider what kind of health regulations can be imposed. There's evidence that certain types of tattoo ink are carcinogenic. I've been doing a little research into this because a friend's child is considering getting a tattoo, and it's disturbing how tattoo parlors in general operate with only the most basic health oversight, even though the process has ongoing health implications.
Hello, Tobacco???
kibbegirl said:
Received the Gaslight today and was kind of gagged to read that we are amending our municipal codes to possibly add uses that were once forbidden like arcades, tattoo parlors and paint and sip shops. I'm good with ONE paint and sip but an arcade? Tattoo parlor? WTF? I know these are just "possibilities" but they also can become realities. Why these? Are we that desperate for revenue? Who believes that a tattoo parlor and/or arcade increases home values, is easy on the eye to potential renters, home buyers and store owners?
You're not alone in gagging over how Downtown is unfolding. There are maybe just a handful of small businesses doing it right and keeping brick-and-mortar alive and thriving, but when you have T-Mobile, AT&T and other anchor stores squatting in our Downtown, it makes it even more difficult for small businesses to survive and thrive.
Who should we hold accountable for helping businesses establish a footing that we don't want to inhibit our Downtown?
I think you're confusing me with people getting/having tattoos from me wanting tattoo parlors. I've never seen a nice looking parlor.
I know several people with tattoos and they always have a specific artist and never deviate from him or her. I don't think anyone who already has a tattoo in S.O. is going to go to the a new parlor if their artist isn't there.
I've never seen the parlors in Montclair. The ones I recall are not well maintained on the outside -- kinda like the row of shops on S.O. Avenue that are close to the university. Just not a good look: their sidewalks aren't cleaned and often there is trash strewn about. I think we can and should do better. How? Not quite sure.
I established a Business Code Review Task Force to review existing ordinances that have been on the books and evaluate whether or not they're necessary. A public forum was held on permitted uses after the task force looked at best practices in surrounding towns and received feedback from residents and businesses. We also reviewed potential new liquor license laws being proposed in the State expanding the number of licenses. Changes are being proposed to permitted uses, also enhancing/improving our signage requirements allowing more flexibility while remaining tasteful through our relatively new Design Review Board, and the BOT will also be taking a position on the expansion of liquor licenses. I will post here when there will be a public presentation in front of the governing body. As for a full disclosure, a "paint and sip" (like Pinot's Palette) was rejected previously due to our code (which I find to have several areas that are antiquated and not business friendly) and also a local resident had a business model for an arcade (with food) targeting our youth to have a place to hang out (which I also find to be a good thing). As for tattoos, I actually have two and these establishments are also regulated by our Health Official and state codes - someone with a needle and ink can't just setup shop and do as they wish. We haven't had an inquiries about that but it's explicitly not permitted in our code and the committee felt that it wasn't necessary to prohibit it. Both forums were live streamed on my Facebook page and shared on the Village Center Alliance Facebook page for anyone wishing to learn more. Permitted uses to guarantee any of these establishments will be coming to South Orange, it specifies whether or not they would be allowed (without a variance) if the market is favorable to their investment.
Thanks,
Sheena
blitzed said:
kibbegirl said:
Received the Gaslight today and was kind of gagged to read that we are amending our municipal codes to possibly add uses that were once forbidden like arcades, tattoo parlors and paint and sip shops. I'm good with ONE paint and sip but an arcade? Tattoo parlor? WTF? I know these are just "possibilities" but they also can become realities. Why these? Are we that desperate for revenue? Who believes that a tattoo parlor and/or arcade increases home values, is easy on the eye to potential renters, home buyers and store owners?
You're not alone in gagging over how Downtown is unfolding. There are maybe just a handful of small businesses doing it right and keeping brick-and-mortar alive and thriving, but when you have T-Mobile, AT&T and other anchor stores squatting in our Downtown, it makes it even more difficult for small businesses to survive and thrive.
Who should we hold accountable for helping businesses establish a footing that we don't want to inhibit our Downtown?
Who decides who "we don't want to inhibit our downtown"? And Blitzed, in a previously thread you had shared a series of concerns about the lack of events to support our small business community. I offered to meet with you and SOVCA to integrate some of your ideas but you never reached out to me. I also inquired why you were using our Village logo as our avatar as it gives the impression you represent the town in some capacity, is that your intention?
Sheena, you could burnish South Orange's image by having some Bail Bondsman shops. I'll bet they are permitted. But there is a difference between being a positive addition and being permitted.
Why the heck is a paint and sip place even on a list of "no nos" in the first place? Id rather have a funky tattoo shop in town then a vape shop, a paint and sip over another hair salon or nail place, and an arcade over more pizza shops.
kibbegirl said:
I've never seen the parlors in Montclair. The ones I recall are not well maintained on the outside -- kinda like the row of shops on S.O. Avenue that are close to the university. Just not a good look: their sidewalks aren't cleaned and often there is trash strewn about. I think we can and should do better. How? Not quite sure.
I'd say that there are all sorts of businesses in all sort of communities and they vary as such. I can't think of anything specific to tattoo parlor that would increase the amount of litter in front of a store. Its not like people are tossing away their "tattoo wrappers". From your post, I get the impression that your info may be a little out of date.
boomie said:
Why the heck is a paint and sip place even on a list of "no nos" in the first place? Id rather have a funky tattoo shop in town then a vape shop, a paint and sip over another hair salon or nail place, and an arcade over more pizza shops.
This.
If we got a funky tattoo parlor, a paint and sip place and an arcade we might be able to bring in enough foot traffic to have a bookstore and cafe. Then we would be living the dream.
mrmaplewood said:
Sheena, you could burnish South Orange's image by having some Bail Bondsman shops. I'll bet they are permitted. But there is a difference between being a positive addition and being permitted.
Bail bonds are not permitted as per our code. I also opened a discussion on Facebook about a marijuana dispensary to get some preliminary feedback (a few hundred responses so far). Towns across NJ are getting in front of this issue right now recognizing that recreational marijuana will likely become legal and local municipalities will have to decide whether or not they are going to be permitted uses (sorry for the tangent).
As for the difference, that's a subjective debate that doesn't get addressed via our local zoning ordinances. One person's "that's a great addition" is another person's "worst addition ever" - I've been through this plenty of times in conversations with residents. That's why all these decisions have consequences but we can't be afraid of addressing shifts in the market and utilizing market-based research to inform new tenants of resident preferences (which we have) to either encourage or discourage their investment in our community.
Sheena - I thought there was a bail bonds shop on South Orange Ave. - no. 65, on the second floor. (It may not be there now - I haven't checked.)
a marijuana store will bring the increased litter of thousands of EZ-wider discarded paper on the sidewalk.
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Received the Gaslight today and was kind of gagged to read that we are amending our municipal codes to possibly add uses that were once forbidden like arcades, tattoo parlors and paint and sip shops. I'm good with ONE paint and sip but an arcade? Tattoo parlor? WTF? I know these are just "possibilities" but they also can become realities. Why these? Are we that desperate for revenue? Who believes that a tattoo parlor and/or arcade increases home values, is easy on the eye to potential renters, home buyers and store owners?