If not for mRNA technology, I’d be a lot more frightened. 

jeffl said:

If not for mRNA technology, I’d be a lot more frightened. 

This is a bit of a tangent but the technology you refer to isn't something that came from big pharma. It was the product of basic research decades ago. Most universities and several research institutes, such as The Roche Institute and the Howard Hughes Medical Research Institute, are funded for the general purpose of just figuring stuff out. Sometimes it is already with a mind towards learning more about some illness but in other cases, it is just a career-long exercise in answering a particular rendition of the eternal question "Just how the hell does that work?"

The HHMI was at The University of Michigan when I was there and I collaborated with a few folks there during my studies. Anyway, that means of placing gene products into cells to examine how they work was still in its infancy in the '80s. They were also doing similar experiments to see what happens when a certain gene is "knocked out" in various ways. Pretty cool stuff. Anyway, the little tidbits of information all tend to build on each other and somewhere down the road some group realizes what can be done with something and you get techniques such as the way to quickly make vaccines against RNA viruses.

My recollection from college biology back around 1970 is that when properly stimulated, DNA would make RNA strands to encode the cell to make various proteins that were needed.   These could be for the healthy normal body functions or for instructions to make an antibody to fend off bacteria or viruses.   We never did laboratory experiments on this and it was just book learning.  We did grow different types of bacteria in the lab classes.  So, we all need to salute the scientists who did all the basic science that allows us to make these amazing vaccines.  The human body and life itself is incredibly complex.  

RobertRoe said:

The human body and life itself is incredibly complex.  

We don't know the half of it or perhaps even a 100th of it yet. I agree that this is a truism. The more things we figure out, the more we find that we don't know.

PeterWick said:

The HHMI was at The University of Michigan when I was there and I collaborated with a few folks there during my studies

Hey! You should go on the internet and tell everyone you invented mRNA technology, and use that claim to sell supplements and such.

PVW said:

Hey! You should go on the internet and tell everyone you invented mRNA technology, and use that claim to sell supplements and such.

Uhh, no. I was just working in a lab that collaborated with a group that was doing work on digital microscopy in the mid-90s. I was studying neurotransmitter release and was hoping to use this as a tool for my experiments.

I was just saying that this type of work into mRNA (and anti-sense mRNA) was going on at that point in time. All around the world I suppose. I really wish it had been further along when I was doing my work. It would have made it so much easier and better questions could have been asked.

Omicron now confirmed in our backyard:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/12/02/covid-omicron-variant-live-updates/#link-42N3IH64EJD5XHI5VJ5LIZJBU4

The positive case is in Minnesota, but it is assumed he picked it up in NYC attending an anime convention.

This guy showed symptoms prior to Thanksgiving, fwiw - i.e. before we got the news from South Africa. So omicron was here before it was first identified in South Africa. Who knows, maybe it started here and somebody brought it to South Africa with them. 

It seems like the "mild" label has held for every reported case I've read about.  That's good news.

bub said:

It seems like the "mild" label has held for every reported case I've read about.  That's goo

let’s hope it holds true.

I think PVW was just joking about selling stuff.   But one of the things that bothers me about many of the TV and radio and online pundits is that they are now "overnight" experts on virology.   Snake oil salesmen still are around.   

RobertRoe said:

I think PVW was just joking about selling stuff.   But one of the things that bothers me about many of the TV and radio and online pundits is that they are now "overnight" experts on virology.   Snake oil salesmen still are around.   

I was also thinking of Robert Malone overselling his role in mRNA
technology and then hitting the conspiracy circuit.

ETA -- I of course was joking about Peter pulling something similar. I've really valued his posts and have a great deal of respect for him.

bub said:

It seems like the "mild" label has held for every reported case I've read about.  That's good news.

I truly hope that trend persists.
I worry about even mild cases though because of long Covid / post-Covid syndrome, which is a huge wild card as so little is understood about it. The CDC says, "Even people who did not have COVID-19 symptoms in the days or weeks after they were infected can have post-COVID conditions."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/long-term-effects/index.html

Nobody really minds getting a cold, which is what mild Covid seems to be. It's a nuisance but we all get them and get over it. But colds don't cause persistent issues that last who-know-how-many months or even years. 

I've harped quite a bit here on MOL about the use of the word "mild" to describe Covid cases, since many of the pre-Omicron non-hospital cases did not sound so mild to this non-heroic disease sufferer.  But the South African doctor said "very mild" about the Omicron cases there and they did not sound terrible, even to me.  To me, the big bad symptoms are severe pain and difficulty breathing.   Without those, I can deal with it.  

bub said:

I've harped quite a bit here on MOL about the use of the word "mild" to describe Covid cases, since many of the pre-Omicron non-hospital cases did not sound so mild to this non-heroic disease sufferer.  But the South African doctor said "very mild" about the Omicron cases there and they did not sound terrible, even to me.  To me, the big bad symptoms are severe pain and difficulty breathing.   Without those, I can deal with it.  

Yikes, you are braver than I because the thought of losing my sense of taste and small scares the bejeebies out of me! 

bub said:

I've harped quite a bit here on MOL about the use of the word "mild" to describe Covid cases, since many of the pre-Omicron non-hospital cases did not sound so mild to this non-heroic disease sufferer.  But the South African doctor said "very mild" about the Omicron cases there and they did not sound terrible, even to me.  To me, the big bad symptoms are severe pain and difficulty breathing.   Without those, I can deal with it.  

I wouldn't be complacent about this.

Its possible this variant is highly contagious. Viruses mutate. If its super contagious there are a lot of bodies that will be infected and can be possible incubators of further mutations, many opportunities. 

Should we assume future mutations from the Omicron variant will remain mild? What happens if mutations from this highly contagious variant are not mild or vaccine resistant or both?

Maybe having thought that possibility through is why Israel, Austria and Germany are cracking their whips.

CAPE TOWN, South Africa — South Africa’s new daily coronavirus cases have almost tripled in three days, according to new figures released Thursday, raising alarms over the possible spread of the new omicron variant recently detected by the country’s scientists.

New daily confirmed cases rose to 11,535 on Thursday from 8,561 on Wednesday and 4,373 the previous day, according to official statistics. The cases represent a 22.4 percent positivity rate of people tested for the virus, up from 16.5 percent on Wednesday, a massive jump from a 1 percent positivity rate in early November, the National Institute for Communicable Diseases said.

The majority of new infections were in the populous Gauteng province around the greater Johannesburg metropolitan area, with 8,280 cases, the NICD said.

Frustrated by vaccine inequity, a South African lab rushes to replicate Moderna’s shot

“Omicron is probably the fastest-spreading variant that South Africa has ever seen,” said Tulio de Oliveira, director of the Center for Epidemic Response and Innovation at Stellenbosch University, reacting to news of the increase in cases.

Although scientists are warning that it is still too early to say for sure that omicron is behind the surge in cases, the rapid rise means omicron might already be overtaking the delta variant, experts said.

PVW said:

Hey! You should go on the internet and tell everyone you invented mRNA technology, and use that claim to sell supplements and such.

Or perhaps run for governor of Pennsylvania?!

yahooyahoo said:

It's only a matter of time until Omicron is all over the U.S.

It probably already is.

https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2021/12/multiple-cases-of-omicron-covid-variant-detected-in-nyc.html

Yes, it already was.

RTrent said: 

Viruses mutate. If its super contagious there are a lot of bodies that will be infected and can be possible incubators of further mutations, many opportunities.

Should we assume future mutations from the Omicron variant will remain mild? What happens if mutations from this highly contagious variant are not mild or vaccine resistant or both?

This. It's only the humanity-wide lottery history repeating itself.  :-(

Natural immunity, right......

Prior Infection Is Little Defense Against Virus Variant, Scientists Say

Evidence from South Africa, where the Omicron variant already dominates, shows a high rate of reinfection of people who have already had the coronavirus.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/02/world/africa/virus-omicron-variant-reinfection.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

FWIW, we’ve already got community spread of this variation, since it’s detection here earlier in the week. Sigh. 
And there’s a case in a State, that unrelated to any other cluster or known travel spot. 

In good news, re the clotting syndrome connected to some older vaccines, researchers think they’ve found out why it happens: an issue with blood Factor IV. (Why does my brother always want long text conversations when I’m typing here??? Now I’ve forgotten what I was gonna say) interesting research, hopeful results.

Question:  If you test positive for covid, does the testing company tell you if the positive test is regular covid, delta covid, or omicron covid?   Or do you have to hope the health department contact tracers call you and advise you of this?  

RobertRoe said:

Question:  If you test positive for covid, does the testing company tell you if the positive test is regular covid, delta covid, or omicron covid?   Or do you have to hope the health department contact tracers call you and advise you of this?  

Good question. When I was contact tracing, there wasn't much talk of variants yet. I left that work just after December 2020 though. I can ask my friends still doing that work though.

Putting aside concerns particular to Omicron,  we are coming up on 2 years of this thing.  A bedrock principle of pandemic science seemed to be that they end, either dropping down to manageable endemic status or disappearing.  Yet this thing seems to be cycling  through one effective variation after another, keeping itself at pandemic level.  Has any scientist suggested that this thing may break the mold and never go away or moderate?  

bub said:

Putting aside concerns particular to Omicron,  we are coming up on 2 years of this thing.  A bedrock principle of pandemic science seemed to be that they end, either dropping down to manageable endemic status or disappearing.  Yet this thing seems to be cycling  through one effective variation after another, keeping itself at pandemic level.  Has any scientist suggested that this thing may break the mold and never go away or moderate?  

there really aren’t scientists out there who don’t believe in the power of vaccines. Dr Gottlieb this morning said that he believes the current vaccines will remain effective against severe disease but he also thinks an Omicron specific vaccine could be produced for the most vulnerable. He is concerned that natural immunity from delta likely isn’t protecting against the new variant but he’s optimistic that the current vaccines will. Everyone needs to be vaccinated and boosted. That’s the only thing  all the scientists agree on. the more the vaccinated, the less variants. The less variants, the better handle the world has to keep Covid manageable. 

This happened when Obama was president. I know some of you would be screaming about Trump if that happened were he president.

But you can't really blame a president or his administration for these kinds of short sighted mistakes. 

The real issue is the disfunction and bureaucracies of the FDA and the CDC. They haven't exactly shined considering their many committees and delays in approving vaccines and getting needed health measures through. Often the states have needed to take the initiative to do what they should have done.

A missed opportunity.

 In 2016, Maria Elena Bottazzi, a virologist at Baylor College of Medicine, and her colleagues applied for support from the American government to develop a pancoronavirus vaccine, but did not receive it. “They said there’s no interest in pancorona,” Dr. Bottazzi recalled.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/health/universal-coronavirus-vaccine.html

RTrent said:

This happened when Obama was president. I know some of you would be screaming about Trump if that happened were he president.

But you can't really blame a president or his administration for these kinds of short sighted mistakes. 

The real issue is the disfunction and bureaucracies of the FDA and the CDC. They haven't exactly shined considering their many committees and delays in approving vaccines and getting needed health measures through. Often the states have needed to take the initiative to do what they should have done.

A missed opportunity.

 In 2016, Maria Elena Bottazzi, a virologist at Baylor College of Medicine, and her colleagues applied for support from the American government to develop a pancoronavirus vaccine, but did not receive it. “They said there’s no interest in pancorona,” Dr. Bottazzi recalled.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/health/universal-coronavirus-vaccine.html

i think we’re past the Should’ve could’ve would’ve stage. 

Redfruit said:

i think we’re past the Should’ve could’ve would’ve stage. 

That's not why I brought it up. Its a learning experience for the future. People should be aware. 

Redfruit said:

Dr Gottlieb this morning said that he believes the current vaccines will remain effective against severe disease but he also thinks an Omicron specific vaccine could be produced for the most vulnerable. He is concerned that natural immunity from delta likely isn’t protecting against the new variant but he’s optimistic that the current vaccines will. Everyone needs to be vaccinated and boosted. That’s the only thing  all the scientists agree on. the more the vaccinated, the less variants. The less variants, the better handle the world has to keep Covid manageable. 

Duh, (Gottlieb, not you).  Maybe we can try Omicron for all, not just the most vulnerable. We've seen that bs before. Booster for the most vulnerable, then for some others, now for most.

Just cut to the chase and try to get it done with before it has opportunity to further modify into a more deadly variant. Mutations can also occur in the not most vulnerable.

anti vaxxers say they don't trust the vaccine because it was developed too quickly.  they say we now have medications to treat the actual infection so they don't need the vaccine, BUT!  the vaccine has been in use for about a year.  The drugs are still new....yet they claim they will trust the drugs and not the vaccine.

Let’s hope.  

“Typically when viruses accumulate a lot of mutations they lose some fitness,” said Dr. John Wherry, director of the Penn Institute for Immunology in Philadelphia. Certain Omicron mutations may impair the ability of the virus to cleave, changing the behavior of the spike protein, he said.”

“Some scientists have theorized Omicron may have developed over a period of months in an immunocompromised individual, such as an HIV patient in southern Africa. If so, “the virus adapted not to kill that host,” Wherry said.”

https://apple.news/AU3hKOiBNTZS4Xlpyz9jX9A