Ohio is scaring me

As most of you have probably seen here on MOL, I'm planning on moving to Ohio later this year.

It seems like every few days I see another horror show of a law getting passed.

The last one I saw:

The new law reduces the amount of training required for teachers to
carry firearms in schools from 700 hours to less than 24 hours.


Now, maybe 700 was too much. I dunno. But that seems like a crazy reduction.

I feel like I'm going to be moving into the wild west.


Why are you moving to Ohio?


drummerboy said:

Now, maybe 700 was too much. I dunno. But that seems like a crazy reduction.

Some context to add to that NBC story: Last year, Ohio’s Supreme Court ruled that the state’s 700-hour training requirement for police officers applied to teachers, too. The new law instead puts teachers under the same state requirement for security guards and private investigators.


jimmurphy said:

Why are you moving to Ohio?

to be closer to my brother and cost of living


drummerboy said:

Now, maybe 700 was too much. I dunno. But that seems like a crazy reduction


I oppose arming teachers in general but I am trying to imagine the sort of crack shot I would be if I spent 17 weeks straight, 8 hours a day doing nothing but training to use a pistol.

ETA:  24 hours is definitely too little.


drummerboy said:

to be closer to my brother and cost of living

Any chance your brother would move?


GoSlugs said:

drummerboy said:

Now, maybe 700 was too much. I dunno. But that seems like a crazy reduction


I oppose arming teachers in general but I am trying to imagine the sort of crack shot I would be if I spent 17 weeks straight, 8 hours a day doing nothing but training to use a pistol.

ETA:  24 hours is definitely too little.

The fact that they allow teachers to carry guns is pure insanity.  Reducing the requirements for training only adds to that insanity.


GoSlugs said:

drummerboy said:

Now, maybe 700 was too much. I dunno. But that seems like a crazy reduction


I oppose arming teachers in general but I am trying to imagine the sort of crack shot I would be if I spent 17 weeks straight, 8 hours a day doing nothing but training to use a pistol.

ETA:  24 hours is definitely too little.

It's not a matter of knowing how to fire a gun.  That's the easy part.  When do you use the gun?  Do you go after the shooter or protect your classroom?  Can you identify the gunman quickly in a crowd?  Do you know to not shoot if the shot might hit a student?


And to make these decisions, I would think you need to train constantly.


GoSlugs said:

drummerboy said:

to be closer to my brother and cost of living

Any chance your brother would move?

unlikely. I mean, no.


How long until the first new story of a student shooting someone with the teacher's gun?


What's scary, of course, is that they're trying to fine tune a truly psychotic policy.

They think the world is a TV show. Just put a gun in someone's hand and all of a sudden they're a potential super-hero.


tjohn said:

It's not a matter of knowing how to fire a gun.  That's the easy part.  When do you use the gun?  Do you go after the shooter or protect your classroom?  Can you identify the gunman quickly in a crowd?  Do you know to not shoot if the shot might hit a student?


And to make these decisions, I would think you need to train constantly.

I shot competitively in a previous life (and am now enjoying the hearing loss that came with that) so I know a little bit about this and 700 hours is a lot.

That said, no amount of training would be enough for a teacher to carry a gun in the classroom because guns do not belong in schools under any circumstances.  


tjohn said:

GoSlugs said:

drummerboy said:

Now, maybe 700 was too much. I dunno. But that seems like a crazy reduction


I oppose arming teachers in general but I am trying to imagine the sort of crack shot I would be if I spent 17 weeks straight, 8 hours a day doing nothing but training to use a pistol.

ETA:  24 hours is definitely too little.

It's not a matter of knowing how to fire a gun.  That's the easy part.  When do you use the gun?  Do you go after the shooter or protect your classroom?  Can you identify the gunman quickly in a crowd?  Do you know to not shoot if the shot might hit a student?


And to make these decisions, I would think you need to train constantly.

plus it's no easy task to kill (or just shoot at) another human being. Shooting at targets doesn't really prepare you for that. Add to that the panic of the situation. Add to that - sidearm vs. ar-15.

Though I guess teachers toting ar-15's is the next step.


GoSlugs said:

I shot competitively in a previous life (and am now enjoying the hearing loss that came with that) so I know a little bit about this and 700 hours is a lot.

A little more context: The 700 hours for police officers in Ohio cover their full training to become police officers. The governor’s office said less than 100 hours are for weapons training.


DaveSchmidt said:

A little more context: The 700 hours for police officers in Ohio cover their full training to become police officers. The governor’s office said less than 100 hours are for weapons training.

Departments vary but the poor marksmanship of police is a running gag in the competitive shooting community. NYPD comes in for particular ridicule but that is probably at least partly political.


Also of note: The bill that Ohio passed says firearms training for teachers “shall not exceed” 24 hours, leaving individual districts free to require less, I believe.


How many hours of training are required in the subjects they are going to teach?


GoSlugs said:

Departments vary but the poor marksmanship of police is a running gag in the competitive shooting community. NYPD comes in for particular ridicule but that is probably at least partly political.

Han Solo, for one, is grateful for poor marksmanship standards.


PVW said:

Han Solo, for one, is grateful for poor marksmanship standards.

oh oh


GoSlugs said:

PVW said:

Han Solo, for one, is grateful for poor marksmanship standards.

oh oh

I don't get it.  LOL


If they see fit to arm teachers, they should also train them to stay in their classrooms with their students.  If the gunman enters the classroom, they can defend themselves and their students.  But I can't imagine good outcomes if you have a few teachers actively looking for a gunman in the school building.


drummerboy said:

I don't get it. 
LOL

Watch the scene where Han and co are escaping Mos Eisley, and ask yourself how that sorry lot of storm troopers ever managed to conquer the galaxy.


PVW said:

drummerboy said:

I don't get it. 
LOL

Watch the scene where Han and co are escaping Mos Eisley, and ask yourself how that sorry lot of storm troopers ever managed to conquer the galaxy.

That's sort of what I thought. Has a storm trooper ever actually shot someone? (just talking the original trilogy)


yikes! worst than I thought.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/ohio-teachers-guns-training-requirment-1367334/

Under the new legislation, school personnel will only have to complete four scenario-based training hours, in addition to 20 hours covering first aid, the history of school shootings, and how to ensure that students are reunited with their parents after a school emergency, The Columbus Dispatch reported.




drummerboy said:

That's sort of what I thought. Has a storm trooper ever actually shot someone? (just talking the original trilogy)

Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru?


PVW said:

GoSlugs said:

Departments vary but the poor marksmanship of police is a running gag in the competitive shooting community. NYPD comes in for particular ridicule but that is probably at least partly political.

Han Solo, for one, is grateful for poor marksmanship standards.

Han shot first.


GoSlugs said:

Departments vary but the poor marksmanship of police is a running gag in the competitive shooting community. NYPD comes in for particular ridicule but that is probably at least partly political.

Apples to oranges.  Target/range shooting is a bit different than a street situation.


Steve said:

Apples to oranges.  Target/range shooting is a bit different than a street situation.

Maybe but if you can't hit a motionless paper target, you probably aren't going to be prepared to deal with a "street situation".

And then there is this: Gothamist: NYPD’s Firearms Training Woefully Inadequate, Former Trainers Say


drummerboy said:

As most of you have probably seen here on MOL, I'm planning on moving to Ohio later this year.

It seems like every few days I see another horror show of a law getting passed.

The last one I saw:

The new law reduces the amount of training required for teachers to
carry firearms in schools from 700 hours to less than 24 hours.

Now, maybe 700 was too much. I dunno. But that seems like a crazy reduction.

I feel like I'm going to be moving into the wild west.

Where in Oh-High-Oh?


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