Maplewood TC rejects new site for SA liquor store
ctrzaska said:
Based upon what?
Mostly location. Not based upon competing liquor stores. Busy intersection. Limited parking with only one place for entering and exiting. Lots of pro Mrs. Lee sentiment but all said that didn't factor into their vote.
so the site couldn;t support a discount furniture store. we won;t let another liquor store. what's Plan C.
Sounds like a lot of b.s.
The location can handle the traffic of a dollar store but not a liquor store? The liquor store across the street has a parking lot of similar size and they approved a 7-11 for such a busy corner. I would say the applicant has grounds for legal action of some type.
Based on the logic mentioned above, the building shall remain empty in perpetuity.
yahooyahoo said:
Sounds like a lot of b.s.
The location can handle the traffic of a dollar store but not a liquor store? The liquor store across the street has a parking lot of similar size and they approved a 7-11 for such a busy corner. I would say the applicant has grounds for legal action of some type.
Based on the logic mentioned above, the building shall remain empty in perpetuity.
Based on any logic, that last thing this community needs is a store selling more booze. I'm not taking a moral position or one based on the perception of real estate values: it's simply bad business. If the owner had done any kind of business planning, he would have realized a run of the mill liquor store is NOT what this community needs.
A restaurant that sells alcohol? A whole different story, that is. Someone PLEASE open this!
I think in the long run the store operator will be better off if the town can find him another location away from competition as it says it will try to do.
But I fail to see how an empty store is better for the area than an occupied one.
Unfortunately in NJ there are retail liquor licenses and restaurant/bar licenses and they can not be interchanged or converted to the other purpose. This one is a retail license.
We aren't a big town geographically and areas of town with a space that is a good size to support some types of businesses are at a premium. Based on the cost/value of a liquor license, I cant blame someone from wanting a larger as opposed to smaller space to use it. Otherwise, a store or restaurant will have to charge more to cover the cost of the license (and other costs...rent in our town for businesses is rarely cheap for example) get factored into the cost of the product, so you have businesses that have to cut corners qualitatively or have prices that the community wont support despite convenience. With that in mind, if you had a liquor license for retail space, where would you put it to use in Maplewood? And if you had a liquor license for a restaurant, where would you put it to use in Maplewood? Keep in mind that the license cost/value is probably north of $500,000, and the rent at Highland Place, at least at one time, was 10k to 14k a month. Add that someone I know looked at Highland Place and determined it was going to be at least $1 million out of pocket to get the kitchen and dining room and bar up to snuff, which means it would cost more. Think seven figures to build out or renovate some existing space. Now, lets kick around locations and business models.
I'd opt to put a liquor store over on Valley in the old News Record building. The existing small, nearby store is in South Orange. That location, however, may be too close to the high school (if that could be a legal issue).
Someone already posted on MOL that the News-Record building is going to be a restaurant.
there was a liquor license at the old A&P which is almost as close as the N-R Building to the high school. But if the N-R Building was going to even be a byo restaurant, it still would need a seven figure renovation most likely. Add the cost of the liquor license to that, at a minimum.
hankzona said:
We aren't a big town geographically and areas of town with a space that is a good size to support some types of businesses are at a premium. Based on the cost/value of a liquor license, I cant blame someone from wanting a larger as opposed to smaller space to use it. Otherwise, a store or restaurant will have to charge more to cover the cost of the license (and other costs...rent in our town for businesses is rarely cheap for example) get factored into the cost of the product, so you have businesses that have to cut corners qualitatively or have prices that the community wont support despite convenience. With that in mind, if you had a liquor license for retail space, where would you put it to use in Maplewood? And if you had a liquor license for a restaurant, where would you put it to use in Maplewood? Keep in mind that the license cost/value is probably north of $500,000, and the rent at Highland Place, at least at one time, was 10k to 14k a month. Add that someone I know looked at Highland Place and determined it was going to be at least $1 million out of pocket to get the kitchen and dining room and bar up to snuff, which means it would cost more. Think seven figures to build out or renovate some existing space. Now, lets kick around locations and business models.
Sheesh, so it's like a million dollars to open a restaurant with a liquor license? That obviously is very, very high? How do all these other places do it? The soon to open Cornbread Cafe? HLS? Church's Chicken? Etc etc. Perhaps a restaurant minus the license... hmmm...
I'm not planning on doing it of course, so this is all wishful thinking on my part. But I can imagine a Brooklyn-style eatery and bring your own booze type of place right in that spot. Just saying.
bat_chain said:
hankzona said:
We aren't a big town geographically and areas of town with a space that is a good size to support some types of businesses are at a premium. Based on the cost/value of a liquor license, I cant blame someone from wanting a larger as opposed to smaller space to use it. Otherwise, a store or restaurant will have to charge more to cover the cost of the license (and other costs...rent in our town for businesses is rarely cheap for example) get factored into the cost of the product, so you have businesses that have to cut corners qualitatively or have prices that the community wont support despite convenience. With that in mind, if you had a liquor license for retail space, where would you put it to use in Maplewood? And if you had a liquor license for a restaurant, where would you put it to use in Maplewood? Keep in mind that the license cost/value is probably north of $500,000, and the rent at Highland Place, at least at one time, was 10k to 14k a month. Add that someone I know looked at Highland Place and determined it was going to be at least $1 million out of pocket to get the kitchen and dining room and bar up to snuff, which means it would cost more. Think seven figures to build out or renovate some existing space. Now, lets kick around locations and business models.
Sheesh, so it's like a million dollars to open a restaurant with a liquor license? That obviously is very, very high? How do all these other places do it? The soon to open Cornbread Cafe? HLS? Church's Chicken? Etc etc. Perhaps a restaurant minus the license... hmmm...
I'm not planning on doing it of course, so this is all wishful thinking on my part. But I can imagine a Brooklyn-style eatery and bring your own booze type of place right in that spot. Just saying.
good questions. Springfield Ave rents are lower than Maplewood Village, I suspect Valley St is too, but although lower, they aren't insignificant. The spaces you mention are smaller. Not sure any of them could justify having a liquor license based on their size and price point. Church's is in Union...so different town and county. They make excellent food, but its strictly take out and they arent investing money back in the look of the place. If it was a sitdown restaurant, they would have to. Cornbread Café was at one time a bar or restaurant so they may already have the layout, even the wiring and plumbing to support an updated restaurant. Its been a long time since I was in that place so I dont recall what it used to look like inside. There may even be kitchen equipment and such already there...I don't know. As a point of reference, didn't the Ricaltons renovation cost well over $1 million? And that was an existing restaurant space. The investment in the Wine Barrel I read somewhere was over $1 million. I may be wrong about that.
bat_chain said:
yahooyahoo said:
Sounds like a lot of b.s.
The location can handle the traffic of a dollar store but not a liquor store? The liquor store across the street has a parking lot of similar size and they approved a 7-11 for such a busy corner. I would say the applicant has grounds for legal action of some type.
Based on the logic mentioned above, the building shall remain empty in perpetuity.
Based on any logic, that last thing this community needs is a store selling more booze. I'm not taking a moral position or one based on the perception of real estate values: it's simply bad business. If the owner had done any kind of business planning, he would have realized a run of the mill liquor store is NOT what this community needs.
A restaurant that sells alcohol? A whole different story, that is. Someone PLEASE open this!
What happens when the 250 apartment building at Springfield and Boyden is complete and occupied?
If the TC doesn't want another liquor store, then say so (if that's legal).
The excuses they gave for denial would apply to almost any retail business. Just wait until they approve something else and get sued by the person that applied for the liquor store.
bat_chain said:
yahooyahoo said:
Sounds like a lot of b.s.
The location can handle the traffic of a dollar store but not a liquor store? The liquor store across the street has a parking lot of similar size and they approved a 7-11 for such a busy corner. I would say the applicant has grounds for legal action of some type.
Based on the logic mentioned above, the building shall remain empty in perpetuity.
Based on any logic, that last thing this community needs is a store selling more booze. I'm not taking a moral position or one based on the perception of real estate values: it's simply bad business. If the owner had done any kind of business planning, he would have realized a run of the mill liquor store is NOT what this community needs.
A restaurant that sells alcohol? A whole different story, that is. Someone PLEASE open this!
I don't think their approval is needed for most other uses of private property. Liquor stores are different because of the licensing issue.
Non-sequitur, but I enjoy seeing that my credit card company classifies Wine Library as an "Educational" expense... We definitely overspent on Education last year...
don't know about you but all my wine library dollars are now budgeted for the wine barrel. they just need some adjustments with their wine selection but that'll come.
Robert_Casotto said:
don't know about you but all my wine library dollars are now budgeted for the wine barrel. they just need some adjustments with their wine selection but that'll come.
I don't put all my wine dollars in one basket. 
Been in the Barrel once and generally liked what I saw. My trips to the Library tend to be prompted by impending entertaining, and there I load up on booze and decent cheeses, meats, etc. For the exact same variety, amount and brand of sliced, cured meat, the Library was about 40% cheaper than Whole Foods. Or should I say that Whole Foods was ridiculously higher priced for this particular item...
traditionally, Wine Library has sold their food and liquor at a significantly lower price than most anyone as a means to get people in the door. I wonder if that pricing model will change or has changed because they have changed their wine model.
Yup. And Kaspar's when I don't want to drive the extra two blocks!
Robert_Casotto said:
don't know about you but all my wine library dollars are now budgeted for the wine barrel. they just need some adjustments with their wine selection but that'll come.
Link?
galileo said:
Someone already posted on MOL that the News-Record building is going to be a restaurant.
I'm trying to think of how many liquor stores there are in Maplewood.
Two in the Village.
Kaspar's.
The Wine Barrel.
Are there any others I can't think of? The one on Springfield Ave down by Dunkin Donuts? Is that in Maplewood? It doesn't show up on Google.
That said I wonder where else you could put one that wasn't close to any of the others. Especially since you have some in South Orange which are quite close by. Having the A&P with a liquor license was handy because you could grab some wine with your groceries. Another stand-alone liquor store might be hard to find room for. Maybe something further down Springfield when the new complex opens. I forget if that will have retail space.
To me it seems like another consumption license would be easier to find a home for. Too bad they can't be converted.
The one across the street from Dunkin Donuts closed. There are several just near the borders of Maplewood such as Bottle Crown Liquors in the Millburn Mall.
I didn't know it closed but I am not surprised. Was that in Maplewood? If that's the case is there yet another retail license on the loose? Or is that the one that rolled up to the Wine Barrel?
It was located within Maplewood. The town line parallels Millburn Ave and then cuts across Springfield Ave and follows Laurel Ave for a few blocks.
mrincredible said:
I'm trying to think of how many liquor stores there are in Maplewood.
Two in the Village.
Kaspar's.
The Wine Barrel.
Are there any others I can't think of?
Maple Chek (next to Subway) on Springfield Ave.
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5-0 against. Yay for Mrs. Lee, Kaspar's, and The Wine Barrel!