Living in EWR Airspace During the Collapse of the FAA
On a Zoom call today my colleague was talking about how she was taking the train to New Hampshire instead of flying, even though she lives super close to EWR. Then we discussed how that's only addressing one part of the anxiety around this radar blackout problem...
I also read an article about how negatively that loss of radar can impact Air Traffic Controllers' mental health. So, that only makes things even worse.
sprout said:
On a Zoom call today my colleague was talking about how she was taking the train to New Hampshire instead of flying, even though she lives super close to EWR. Then we discussed how that's only addressing one part of the anxiety around this radar blackout problem...
I also read an article about how negatively that loss of radar can impact Air Traffic Controllers' mental health. So, that only makes things even worse.
My sister is very afraid of flying but she has to fly fairly frequently for her job. In the past, we have had long conversations about air safety in which I have employed very convincing statistics about the relative safety of air travel. I have avoided bringing the subject up with her since the crash in DC but I know a conversation is coming and I honestly don't know what to tell her.
Judy Blume's novel In the Unlikely Event recalls when three planes out of EWR crashed in Elizabeth within three months.
https://njmonthly.com/articles/jersey-living/crash-course-judy-blume-elizabeth-plane-crashes/
After those crashes, EWR was closed for nine months.
ril said:
Judy Blume's novel In the Unlikely Event recalls when three planes out of EWR crashed in Elizabeth within three months.
https://njmonthly.com/articles/jersey-living/crash-course-judy-blume-elizabeth-plane-crashes/
After those crashes, EWR was closed for nine months.
That came to my mind right after the first outage. I remember her discussing it on NPR one afternoon while I was entirely coincidentally driving through Elizabeth. The second crash hit a High School and killed everyone on the plane and 7 people on the ground.
GoSlugs said:
That came to my mind right after the first outage. I remember her discussing it on NPR one afternoon while I was entirely coincidentally driving through Elizabeth. The second crash hit a High School and killed everyone on the plane and 7 people on the ground.
Agreed, I was thinking about the Judy Blume book as well. My mother and aunt were out in their yard and saw the smoke from one of those plane crashes while growing up in Elizabeth.
We keep thinking about this, but in spite of our very significant concerns, the reality is likely that the added risk of traveling by car (or car service) to an airport further from our house is probably as great as the added risk of flying in and out of EWR right now. However, the risk of major delays and more cancellations may change some details of how we travel in the near future (e.g. no late flights that are more likely to be delayed). What a mess.
sprout said:
On a Zoom call today my colleague was talking about how she was taking the train to New Hampshire instead of flying, even though she lives super close to EWR. Then we discussed how that's only addressing one part of the anxiety around this radar blackout problem...
I also read an article about how negatively that loss of radar can impact Air Traffic Controllers' mental health. So, that only makes things even worse.
But it ain't just the radar going on the fritz. A recent article in the Ledger reported that, instead of several air traffic controllers (ATCs) in the tower sometimes there are only one or two. This is because some of the regular staff are on PTSD leave in response to stress caused by last week's radar blackout
On one day last week there were only two controllers and one was a trainee.
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
But it ain't just the radar going on the fritz. A recent article in the Ledger reported that, instead of several air traffic controllers (ATCs) in the tower sometimes there are only one or two. This is because some of the regular staff are on PTSD leave in response to stress caused by last week's radar blackout
On one day last week there were only two controllers and one was a trainee.
NYT reported that the normal number of controllers on duty at any time should be 14. They've got two or three.
This was from a couple of days ago but it shows a concerning pattern of lies and disinformation from the FAA about what is really happening at US airports.
NYT:Audio Data Shows Newark Outage Problems Persisted Longer Than Officials Said
I have a flight out of Newark next week. Not sure what to make of what I'm hearing. Anecdotally, the recent experiences of acquaintances and family is mostly good. They've flown in and out with no problems. Delta cutting back flights and people fleeing to La Guardia and JFK for travel my be helping. I don't know how dangerous the tech glitches are. One does not want to get killed.
bub said:
I have a flight out of Newark next week. Not sure what to make of what I'm hearing. Anecdotally, the recent experiences of acquaintances and family is mostly good. They've flown in and out with no problems. Delta cutting back flights and people fleeing to La Guardia and JFK for travel my be helping. I don't know how dangerous the tech glitches are. One does not want to get killed.
Air traffic controllers quoted in various media outlets have said that normal staffing levels at EWR are 14 and that anything less than 7 controllers is unsafe. It has been reported that on recent shifts there have been between 1 and 3 air traffic controllers on duty.
It is only a matter of time before this criminal mismanagement results in a tragedy. The government desperately needs to bring in military ATCs to supplement the civilian staff. Until that happens, if I had a choice, I would either drive or take the train.
I'm not driving to the Canadian Rockies, where we are going. We may be able to switch to a flight out of LGA or JFK without paying anything extra. My son, who I'm travelling with, wants to do that. So far, Air Canada is allowing that but, for now, its only for flights through May 23. I suspect they will roll the policy forward but I don't know.
bub said:
I'm not driving to the Canadian Rockies, where we are going. We may be able to switch to a flight out of LGA or JFK without paying anything extra. My son, who I'm travelling with, wants to do that. So far, Air Canada is allowing that but, for now, its only for flights through May 23. I suspect they will roll the policy forward but I don't know.
I mean you gotta do what you gotta do. I think it would be safer to fly from another airport but this is a national problem for the US. My family has cancelled all of our trips from our home at the foot of the Canadian Rockies to the US for the duration, both out of a sense of Canadian patriotism and because I don't think it is safe to fly in US airspace.
On an aside, I wonder where you are heading.
GoSlugs said:
I mean you gotta do what you gotta do. I think it would be safer to fly from another airport but this is a national problem for the US. My family has cancelled all of our trips from our home at the foot of the Canadian Rockies to the US for the duration, both out of a sense of Canadian patriotism and because I don't think it is safe to fly in US airspace.
On an aside, I wonder where you are heading.
Dramatic much? I can think of places unsafe to travel. For example, I have postponed my planned grand tour of Sudan until order is restored. But travel in the U.S. is not dangerous.
Banff. Next week seems early enough to avoid bad crowding there I think. Initially, I liked the idea of Jasper but it's 4 hours drive from Edmonton whereas Banff is just 90 minutes from Calgary. If it was later in the summer, I'd be wary about the crowding I understand Banff gets. Any recs you have re hiking dining or anything else will be well taken.
tjohn said:
Dramatic much? I can think of places unsafe to travel. For example, I have postponed my planned grand tour of Sudan until order is restored. But travel in the U.S. is not dangerous.
To be fair, he didn't say travel in the US was unsafe; he said that he didn't think that travel in US airspace was unsafe.
GoSlugs said:
Reading the news these days I've been wondering how everyone is doing with that. My wife commented the other day that if we were still in South Orange, she would be thinking about sleeping in the cellar.
Sleeping in the cellar isn't going to help if a passenger jet hits your house.
tjohn said:
Dramatic much? I can think of places unsafe to travel. For example, I have postponed my planned grand tour of Sudan until order is restored. But travel in the U.S. is not dangerous.
Sure, for straight white male US citizens, ground travel is perfectly safe. That, however, is not what I was talking about. I was talking about air travel in the US generally and Newark specifically.
Boston Globe: Newark Airport is no longer safe. Here’s why that should terrify us all.
USA Today: Denver air traffic control lost communications for 90 seconds, FAA says
Reason Magazine: The 3 FAA Failures Creating a Dangerous Mess in the Skies
bub said:
Banff. Next week seems early enough to avoid bad crowding there I think. Initially, I liked the idea of Jasper but it's 4 hours drive from Edmonton whereas Banff is just 90 minutes from Calgary. If it was later in the summer, I'd be wary about the crowding I understand Banff gets. Any recs you have re hiking dining or anything else will be well taken.
Nice. I was up there last summer and it is just stunning. Jasper is also great but there was a huge fire there last summer and much of the town was destroyed so I think it may take a year or two to get back on its feet. That said, the Icefields Parkway between Banff and Jasper is amazing. There is one point where you can get out and look at the face of an enormous glacier which towers over the valley.
I think you will do well heading up there now. Crowds do get bigger as the season progresses (although big in the Canadian context is a little different than big in the US context).
tjohn said:
Air travel in the U.S. is still safe.
Well, you may believe what you want to believe. Don't let the facts get in your way. I am going to take a screen shot of your post and I really do hope that it is a good long while until I have to throw it back in your face but, barring some major change like the deployment of military ATCs, I am afraid it won't be.
GoSlugs said:
tjohn said:
Air travel in the U.S. is still safe.
Well, you may believe what you want to believe. Don't let the facts get in your way. I am going to take a screen shot of your post and I really do hope that it is a good long while until I have to throw it back in your face but, barring some major change like the deployment of military ATCs, I am afraid it won't be.
just the facts here:
1. U.S. neglect of infrastructure is a huge problem
2. A fully-loaded A380 could crash and air travel would still be safer than surface travel.
This like saying "the US is reliable trading partner". Statistics from decades of trade would back that statement up and it would still be completely and utterly incorrect.
For decades, air travel in the US was very VERY safe. Sadly, that era ended on January 20, 2025.
yeah - it's not like the NYPost sensationalizes anything. 
I had two planes come in from Germany 30 minutes early this past week. It'll be awhile before I move to Canada for fear of planes falling out of the sky. 
And you won't find me in the basement either.
jamie said:
And you won't find me in the basement either.
Thank God! I find enough weird stuff down there without bumping into you, as well.
Wait, did you mean YOUR basement?
Had a quick one night trip this week and flew in and out of Newark. Both flights were early. No problems of any kind.
I don't know why everyone does not get the quick TSA fast pass. The people without it were on a pretty long line when I zipped through the fast pass line heading out on the trip.
bub said:
I don't know why everyone does not get the quick TSA fast pass.
I fly once or twice a year. Plus, I’m in no hurry.
I fly very little. Usually yearrs between flights. But why wait on a big line if you don't have to?
bub said:
I fly very little. Usually yearrs between flights. But why wait on a big line if you don't have to?
Seventy-eight dollars (times two) and a drive to an appointment.
Once at the airport, I’m either waiting in the TSA line or waiting at the gate. It makes no difference to me. I’m a relatively patient guy.
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Reading the news these days I've been wondering how everyone is doing with that. My wife commented the other day that if we were still in South Orange, she would be thinking about sleeping in the cellar.