Jefferson and Maplewood Avenue

Saw this on FB - seriously can we make this a 4 way stop already?

I bet somebody got yelled at

The excuse for not making it a 4-way stop is that cars coming over the hill (eastbound on Jefferson) would not have enough time to stop safely. 

Maybe the solution is setting up a 4-way stoplight at Jefferson and Maplewood Ave as well as a stoplight at the intersection of Jefferson and Walton/Woodland.

Thank you, Jamie!  I heard about this accident and have been searching for info about it.  It would be incredible if the people involved weren't seriously hurt, but I'm hoping for a miracle.  

From the one picture it’s hard to tell what happened. But generally cars that are going 25 mph don’t end up flipped like that. I think the intersection would be fine if there was less speeding. 

That thread is really disappointing.  As usual no one reads anything, they just post.  There is a good response from Dean on the thread, and many explanations of why engineers don't want a 4 way stop, followed immediately by someone saying that there should be a 4 way stop.  

"Stop sign on Jefferson" may be the oldest topic on MOL, perhaps even predating registering user names.

On FB it's followed by someone posting a 10 year old "I was wronged" incident that occurred at some other intersection somewhere.

Make Jefferson a one way going up from Valley to Ridgewood. Make west Parker a one way going down to valley. Make the traffic light solid red instead of flashing. 
People are driving way too fast, and may I suggest everyone who drives should have dash cams? If every car came with dash cams as standard equipment like reverse cameras, it would make it easier for everyone to figure out who’s breaking the law. This is ridiculous, so many school kids use that intersection.

yahooyahoo said:

The excuse for not making it a 4-way stop is that cars coming over the hill (eastbound on Jefferson) would not have enough time to stop safely. 

Maybe the solution is setting up a 4-way stoplight at Jefferson and Maplewood Ave as well as a stoplight at the intersection of Jefferson and Walton/Woodland.

It ain't our decision but-- make eastbound Jeff 15 MPH. 

4Way stop sign it and put flashing sign "Stop Ahead" at the top of the hill at Jeff. 

93.1 % of the cars on Jeff are local. By the 5th week, everyone would know Jeff was 4way and would adjust their driving in anticipation of the stop sign.

mrincredible said:

From the one picture it’s hard to tell what happened. But generally cars that are going 25 mph don’t end up flipped like that. I think the intersection would be fine if there was less speeding. 

I agree, speeding was likely involved. Instant carma.

Jaytee said:

Make Jefferson a one way going up from Valley to Ridgewood. Make west Parker a one way going down to valley.

Leaving no way to get from Ridgewood to Valley anywhere in the 1.5 miles between Baker and Audley-to-Walton-to-Maplewood-to-Parker? (Or Third Street?)

DanDietrich said:

That thread is really disappointing.  As usual no one reads anything, they just post.  There is a good response from Dean on the thread, and many explanations of why engineers don't want a 4 way stop, followed immediately by someone saying that there should be a 4 way stop.  

welcome to the internet

mrincredible said:

From the one picture it’s hard to tell what happened. But generally cars that are going 25 mph don’t end up flipped like that. I think the intersection would be fine if there was less speeding. 

I go through this intersection daily and I can’t begin to count how many “near misses” I’ve witnessed that have nothing to do with speeding. I can’t figure out for the life of me why cars stopped at the stop sign there then proceed to cross over with cars coming down or up Jefferson but I can attest they do it countless times. I’ve learned that you can’t trust what any car is going to do there so I hold my breath with my hand on my horn and always  go very slowly. Something has to be done. Enough already!

DaveSchmidt said:

Leaving no way to get from Ridgewood to Valley anywhere in the 1.5 miles between Baker and Audley-to-Walton-to-Maplewood-to-Parker? (Or Third Street?)

there’s Durand and there’s Audley or Lenox down to Walton hang a left at maplewood Avenue by the tennis courts and hang a left one way down w. Parker… you don’t have to be a librarian to figure it out 

yahooyahoo said:

The excuse for not making it a 4-way stop is that cars coming over the hill (eastbound on Jefferson) would not have enough time to stop safely. 

Maybe the solution is setting up a 4-way stoplight at Jefferson and Maplewood Ave as well as a stoplight at the intersection of Jefferson and Walton/Woodland.

I feel like this thread reappears every couple of years. It really upsets me every time I hear about a big accident there - there have been so many over the years. And like everyone else posting here, and probably everybody in town, I drive through there a lot and worry every single time.

There is an intersection with similar issues in Millburn at Glen ave & Wyoming. If you are coming from Millburn Ave on Wyoming it's a blind hill, with a stop light at the bottom. So they have a separate sign saying "RED light ahead" or something like that. There's another sign like that on South Orange Ave in the res.

Why is something like that not do-able?  Sorry for bolding that but it seems to me that there are solutions that we seem not to be thinking of. (I don't have FB so don't know what is on that thread.)

The only other solution I can see would be to close that road to through traffic. Put up a big barrier at Maplewood Ave. It would be hugely inconvenient, especially to the people who live on Jefferson, but it's a slight diversion to go around to Ridgewood and then down one of the other side streets to get to MW Ave.

Jaytee said:

there’s Durand and there’s Audley or Lenox down to Walton hang a left at maplewood Avenue by the tennis courts and hang a left one way down w. Parker… you don’t have to be a librarian to figure it out

Yup, I had it figured out: Durand leads to Baker, and Audley I mentioned. So we appear to be in agreement: leaving no way to get from Ridgewood to Valley anywhere in the 1.5 miles between Baker and Audley-to-Walton-to-Maplewood-to-Parker. (Or, more directly for non-librarians passing through, Third Street.)

DaveSchmidt said:

Yup, I had it figured it out: Durand leads to Baker, and Audley I mentioned. So we appear to be in agreement: leaving no way to get from Ridgewood to Valley anywhere in the 1.5 miles between Baker and Audley-to-Walton-to-Maplewood-to-Parker. (Or, more directly for non-librarians passing through, Third Street.)

that’s a good way to temper the traffic barreling down hill to valley. If they are going uphill on Jefferson it will be easier to stop at maplewood Avenue. Plus you won’t have to worry about some idiot barreling down Jefferson and you can’t see him until he crests the hill. That one way from Ridgewood to get to Jefferson around the school has worked very well in tempering the school traffic. It’s a pain to go around to get to valley? That’s the price we have to pay for too much development.   
It will also help with people trying to get from woodland across to Walton. It can be done and it should be done. Until someone is killed at that intersection we will continue to debate this. 

I contend that a stop light or four way stop could work there. It works at Wyoming and Glen in Millburn going over the railroad bridge...

Mema said:

mrincredible said:

From the one picture it’s hard to tell what happened. But generally cars that are going 25 mph don’t end up flipped like that. I think the intersection would be fine if there was less speeding. 

I go through this intersection daily and I can’t begin to count how many “near misses” I’ve witnessed that have nothing to do with speeding. I can’t figure out for the life of me why cars stopped at the stop sign there then proceed to cross over with cars coming down or up Jefferson but I can attest they do it countless times. I’ve learned that you can’t trust what any car is going to do there so I hold my breath with my hand on my horn and always  go very slowly. Something has to be done. Enough already!

they are near misses because there isn't any speeding involved. Add speed and it's a crash

Rather than debate the solution here to what we all know has been a serious problem since the streets were laid out in town, I just sent an email to the municipal officers in Maplewood who are presently overseeing a pedestrian safety study at the request of the Maplewood Seniors Advisory Committee.  They include the Assistant Administrator, the Town Engineer, the Detective Sergeant who heads the Traffic Division, and the SOMA Two Towns For All Ages Coordinator who is spearheading the study.  In the email, I detailed the problems at the intersection of Maplewood Avenue and Jefferson and asked that this location be added to a list of problem locations the Maplewood Seniors Advisory Committee has already identified.  This should be the approach that has the best chance of getting something done.

I guess it's too late to blow up  and reshape the hill on Jefferson to make a more visible entry to the intersection...

sprout said:

I guess it's too late to blow up  and reshape the hill on Jefferson to make a more visible entry to the intersection...

I was thinking this also.  Just make it a little more flat at the top.

"Blow up" -- probably not, but I have wondered if it could be reconfigured.  The one-way recommendation seems promising.  It would be interesting to read the Township Committee's past discussions of the problematic intersection, but since the redesign of the Township website, most of the old minutes are no longer available. 

I was told that, according to someone on Facebook, the people in the vehicles involved were largely unscathed.  

Here is the reply I received to my above mentioned email citing the issues at the intersection of Maplewood Avenue and Jefferson.  Reply is from the Assistant Administrator.  I also heard back from the town engineer.  Both are aware of the most recent accident at that location.  Note the reason why a four way stop is not recommended by the transportation engineering experts who were consulted. No mention is made of considering making Jefferson one way west bound.

Completed Efforts:

• This area was part of the 2018 Roadway Improvement plan, and re-striping was designed to provide room for parking on south side of the road and decrease lane width for traffic calming. Areas of no parking were also delineated with the shoulder on the south side increasing significantly.
• Dual LED blinking stop signs were installed on both approaches of Maplewood Avenue.
• Placard signs were added to both stop signs on Maplewood Avenue reading, “cross traffic does not stop."
• Curb ramps in the area were modified for ADA compliance.
• A full study with survey was performed on the train trestle. All signage was updated in 2022 regarding bridge clearances, and all approaches were updated.

Forthcoming Efforts:

• As a result of discussion at several Engineering, Public Works, & Planning Committee meetings, a signage/striping plan was prepared for the area. The Township tried having last year's road program contractor implement the plan, but they were not responsive. The Township then prepared an RFP and is in the process of coordinating an award for the RFP (bids were due yesterday). Work to install signs will likely occur within the next month.
• The Township and Dynamic Traffic (one of our consultants) have studied the option of an all-way stop at the Maplewood-Jefferson intersection. However, given the limited sight distance and the possibility of stacked cars on Jefferson if it were stop-controlled, an all-way stop is not advised. Both Dynamic Traffic and the Township continue to study the area and other potential mitigations for traffic concerns that could be implemented following the signage/striping updates.

Jaytee - Just to make you  aware someone was killed at that intersection. I can remember when it happened. Her name was Vivian Battzle(sp?) and she was driving her car. She was a realtor who had her own company in that little building on Glen and Ridgewood,followed by Chris Danzi. Of course it was very upsetting at the time.

Audley isn't built to take that sort of traffic.  There have been times when it has been routed onto Audley by downed trees and the like and the result has been a complete cluster-frak. 

GoSlugs said:

Audley isn't built to take that sort of traffic.  There have been times when it has been routed onto Audley by downed trees and the like and the result has been a complete cluster-frak. 

I would agree with that. It's not built for that kind of traffic.

joan_crystal said:

• The Township and Dynamic Traffic (one of our consultants) have studied the option of an all-way stop at the Maplewood-Jefferson intersection. However, given the limited sight distance and the possibility of stacked cars on Jefferson if it were stop-controlled, an all-way stop is not advised.

This has been the key take away for NOT having a 4 way stop.

Speed Bumps before and after the crest of the hill?