Gateway's Retail Tenants MIA?
The signs went up, but I heard they had an issue with the sign police.
Will the stores ever open? You'd think since they're paying rent, they'd want to get in. Who else is finally going in besides the bakery and fitness place?
Jan 14, 2015 at 4:45am Edited
They have to get building permits before they start construction. In "Progressive" towns that is often a long drawn out process that sometimes causes the prospective tenant to walk away.
ps: I don't know if this is the case here.
ps: I don't know if this is the case here.
RippleK said:
Will the stores ever open? You'd think since they're paying rent, they'd want to get in. Who else is finally going in besides the bakery and fitness place?
How do you know they are paying rent? I think Steve has it right - they need to design and build out the space. And we can't even be sure when they can start building. Just because tenants moved in upstairs does not mean the work on the ground floor was completed.
michaelgoldberg said:
The signs went up, but I heard they had an issue with the sign police.
The sad part is, I can't tell if you're joking or not.
michaelgoldberg said:
The signs went up, but I heard they had an issue with the sign police.
I assume there are design standards for a reason and thought was put into whatever the rules are. Business owners making signs should be able to follow the rules. They are not secret rules. Not the fault of 'sign police' to do their job to uphold whatever laws are on the books.
I can't speak to what the delay is with Mara's Cafe, but I'll speak to D&I Fitness. There are extremely lengthy processes set in place by South Orange along with the actual design and sourcing in the end of the tenant. Negotiating the actual size of the space and what is left over for other potential tenants and then the legal contracts take time. It's quite a bit of back and forth and back and forth between tenant, landlord, developer, and attorneys. Then throw in the architect and his plans, and going before the town to obtain permitting, as well as getting those approved by the landlord isn't as easy as going into Starbucks and ordering a Grande Latte. As for the 'sign police' none of the tenants were involved in any such penalty, nor is that the situation that is holding the spaces from going forward with development. D&I is indeed coming to the new space.....patience.
Last comment regarding D&I Fitness, the first major hurdle they had was getting the town to overturn a bylaw set into place many, many years ago.....that no such fitness or gym be built-out on South Orange Avenue. This bylaw goes back into the reign of William Calabrese. And getting bylaws changed isn't easy either.
I cant wait for D and I . Its a great gym with an owner who really cares. Its a great addition to main street downtown
skyfall said:
Last comment regarding D&I Fitness, the first major hurdle they had was getting the town to overturn a bylaw set into place many, many years ago.....that no such fitness or gym be built-out on South Orange Avenue. This bylaw goes back into the reign of William Calabrese. And getting bylaws changed isn't easy either.
Bylaws?? Perhaps you mean zoning or permitted uses?
@skyfall, thanks for the update. Did the landlord and D&I Fitness agree on a lease before either confirmed that the business currently was a permitted use in that building under the Village's zoning?
Jan 15, 2015 at 1:11am Edited
Thank you Michael for clarifying the term. I'm not in government so the terms used aren't at familiar.
The spade that is right of the doorway into Gateway was originally planned (in design) to be three potential spaces to be rented with a fourth on the other side of driveway enters cd. D&I was originally to go in Mara's location. And for whatever reason the landlord wanted Mara's to go in the 'isolated' space and D&I went to the other side. The move gave them potentially more space to work with. And while there were no other 'signed and/or commited tenants' for the larger span of space, D&I began planning and revising their plans to fit accordingly, while still having to be sensitive to the space left for a third tenant.
D&I inquired about the space with landlord, then looked into permitting, and was made aware of the ''zoning and/or permitting' and then filed an appeal (correct me if I'm wrong). They've just finished the lighting plan w/architect and that was going being sent off for approval.
The spade that is right of the doorway into Gateway was originally planned (in design) to be three potential spaces to be rented with a fourth on the other side of driveway enters cd. D&I was originally to go in Mara's location. And for whatever reason the landlord wanted Mara's to go in the 'isolated' space and D&I went to the other side. The move gave them potentially more space to work with. And while there were no other 'signed and/or commited tenants' for the larger span of space, D&I began planning and revising their plans to fit accordingly, while still having to be sensitive to the space left for a third tenant.
D&I inquired about the space with landlord, then looked into permitting, and was made aware of the ''zoning and/or permitting' and then filed an appeal (correct me if I'm wrong). They've just finished the lighting plan w/architect and that was going being sent off for approval.
If it's not currently a permitted, zoned use, it's surprising there's been so much fanfare about this space having been rented, including by SOVCA.
D&I presumably obtained a Use Permit for its current space, so it (or its attorney) should have known about them. Regardless, The Gateway's developer definitely should have known better.
D&I presumably obtained a Use Permit for its current space, so it (or its attorney) should have known about them. Regardless, The Gateway's developer definitely should have known better.
Jan 15, 2015 at 1:59am Edited
Listen, I'm just trying to clear the air or whatever you want to call it about D&I Fitness and all the chatter about it going into Gateway. Obviously it's taking awhile, and it's indeed going in. As for lawyers or landlords knowing better, call up Ed (landlord of Gateway) and ask directly? Better to get the answers straight rather than all the speculation and chatter about knowing better or someone should've understood before going into the the situation.
Opening retail is crazy. If I hadn't gone through it myself, I'd never understand the delays and length of time it takes. But it does and it's pretty consistent, even with due diligence done on behalf of all the parties involved.
I learned a pretty good general rule and joke all at the same time: Want to estimate how long it's going to take to get open? Take the time you have already predicted, double it and then add two months. It's actually pretty accurate. Sometimes, if you're lucky, you won't need the full two months at the end.
As for the zoning, it's actually something I've looked into. I don't know what happened but sometime down the line, the wording for the zoning at the Gateway became different by a few words from the rest of South Orange Avenue. I don't know if this was an accident or on purpose or if it happened in the Calabrese or Newman years but it allows for uses such as gyms in that building whereas the rest of South Orange Avenue in that area does not. I can see why the confusion may have caused a delay, but it's the rules and the parties involved are following the law as it is written.
As for town-based issues that get in the way of opening, along with inconsistent zoning and the such, Trustee Collum is leading a code review taskforce I'm delighted to be a part of. The commercial code in South Orange hasn't been thoroughly reviewed and scrubbed since the eighties, which is crazy. The taskforce is made up by Trustees Collum and Schnall, business and building owners, the Village administrator and planner, the Village Center Alliance and the Irvington Avenue Committee. It's proactively addressing all of these issues and more and attempting to make South Orange more business friendly. There have already been two super productive town hall meetings with building and business owners. Alas, this won't solve all the problems that have happened in the past or are happening now, but it will really make this Village a much better place in which to do business, while still holding up the standards we value in our business districts.
I learned a pretty good general rule and joke all at the same time: Want to estimate how long it's going to take to get open? Take the time you have already predicted, double it and then add two months. It's actually pretty accurate. Sometimes, if you're lucky, you won't need the full two months at the end.
As for the zoning, it's actually something I've looked into. I don't know what happened but sometime down the line, the wording for the zoning at the Gateway became different by a few words from the rest of South Orange Avenue. I don't know if this was an accident or on purpose or if it happened in the Calabrese or Newman years but it allows for uses such as gyms in that building whereas the rest of South Orange Avenue in that area does not. I can see why the confusion may have caused a delay, but it's the rules and the parties involved are following the law as it is written.
As for town-based issues that get in the way of opening, along with inconsistent zoning and the such, Trustee Collum is leading a code review taskforce I'm delighted to be a part of. The commercial code in South Orange hasn't been thoroughly reviewed and scrubbed since the eighties, which is crazy. The taskforce is made up by Trustees Collum and Schnall, business and building owners, the Village administrator and planner, the Village Center Alliance and the Irvington Avenue Committee. It's proactively addressing all of these issues and more and attempting to make South Orange more business friendly. There have already been two super productive town hall meetings with building and business owners. Alas, this won't solve all the problems that have happened in the past or are happening now, but it will really make this Village a much better place in which to do business, while still holding up the standards we value in our business districts.
skyfall said:
Listen, I'm just trying to clear the air or whatever you want to call it about D&I Fitness and all the chatter about it going into Gateway. Obviously it's taking awhile, and it's indeed going in. As for lawyers or landlords knowing better, call up Ed (landlord of Gateway) and ask directly? Better to get the answers straight rather than all the speculation and chatter about knowing better or someone should've understood before going into the the situation.
you are right. but if people did that, it would interfere with their need to constantly go on MOL and start threads about how awful South Orange is.
Setting up Retail, Easy Peasy. I've done it three times and have helped several others.
Rule of thumb, plan for a year. Know, or kinda know what you are doing, make it 6 months. Want a sign, all bets are off.
Ben on the Board with Trustee Collum to fix it, it will get fixed.
Later, Da
The UPS Store
George
Rule of thumb, plan for a year. Know, or kinda know what you are doing, make it 6 months. Want a sign, all bets are off.
Ben on the Board with Trustee Collum to fix it, it will get fixed.
Later, Da
The UPS Store
George
Related thread drift: Does anyone know about retail for the new development on 3rd and Valley? I'm a little nervous with so much empty space already on SO Avenue. What's coming in??
Tarheel, I heard a coffee joint was going in one space. The spaces themselves are on the smaller side.
The thing that would have me going insane about the zoning at The Gateway is that the Village Board could change it very quickly. However, this doesn't seem to be in the cards? Are their the usual nuts opposed to bringing the zoning in line with the rest of the area?
There's very little retail in the Third and Valley space, only about 2,500 square feet. (There's 10,000 square feet of so-called "flex space" but most of it is interior space, so not really retail suitable.) The Third Street frontage will be used for residential. They're calling it "work/live space," so I believe it's slated for people that work from home. I assume this means therapists, accountants and the like, though I'm not entirely certain.
There's actually decent demand for new construction commercial space. I believe this space won't be difficult to rent, especially in a building with roughly 215 apartment units. It's my personal opinion that there really should be more square footage dedicated to retail in that development (the Vision Plan marked an expansion of Sloan Street as the best way to capitalize on current success) but I can only imagine that was a concession that was made in order to seal the deal. Generally speaking, I've come to learn that many developers really don't want to put in retail; they'd much rather have more residential units.
All that said, the Jonathon Rose Company is a big score for South Orange. This is a big time developer with a fantastic reputation. And South Orange is the home of their first ever development in New Jersey.
There's actually decent demand for new construction commercial space. I believe this space won't be difficult to rent, especially in a building with roughly 215 apartment units. It's my personal opinion that there really should be more square footage dedicated to retail in that development (the Vision Plan marked an expansion of Sloan Street as the best way to capitalize on current success) but I can only imagine that was a concession that was made in order to seal the deal. Generally speaking, I've come to learn that many developers really don't want to put in retail; they'd much rather have more residential units.
All that said, the Jonathon Rose Company is a big score for South Orange. This is a big time developer with a fantastic reputation. And South Orange is the home of their first ever development in New Jersey.
From: South Orange Village Center Alliance - Village Vibe newsletter:
"Many people around town have asked me if Mara's Café and Bakery is still coming to the Gateway, since awnings were up late last year and then were taken down. Well, the good news is that Mara's is DEFINITELY still coming to the Gateway! In fact, the permits have been issued, interior construction has begun, and Mara's is now looking at late February/early March opening, so there's no need to panic or listen to the rumor mill. Mara's is coming!! And so is D&I Fitness, by the way! Which is a good thing, because after some of us eat those great baked goods at Mara's we're going to have go next door to work it off at D&I! There's no news on the Gateway's third space yet, but there will be soon, so stay tuned!
Speaking of South Orange's newest building, remember the mural competition last year? 9 artists were selected to paint South Orange related murals that would be mounted on the NJ Transit retaining wall behind the Gateway. Well, the first two are up and they look great! Local artist Oksana Berzinsh has her beautiful image of Village Hall up on the wall, and Bill Billlec, who is also a local artist, has his great 3D Gaslight (yes, it's actually in 3D) hanging. Go to the Gateway and check them out! The other murals will be going up in the next few weeks."
"Many people around town have asked me if Mara's Café and Bakery is still coming to the Gateway, since awnings were up late last year and then were taken down. Well, the good news is that Mara's is DEFINITELY still coming to the Gateway! In fact, the permits have been issued, interior construction has begun, and Mara's is now looking at late February/early March opening, so there's no need to panic or listen to the rumor mill. Mara's is coming!! And so is D&I Fitness, by the way! Which is a good thing, because after some of us eat those great baked goods at Mara's we're going to have go next door to work it off at D&I! There's no news on the Gateway's third space yet, but there will be soon, so stay tuned!
Speaking of South Orange's newest building, remember the mural competition last year? 9 artists were selected to paint South Orange related murals that would be mounted on the NJ Transit retaining wall behind the Gateway. Well, the first two are up and they look great! Local artist Oksana Berzinsh has her beautiful image of Village Hall up on the wall, and Bill Billlec, who is also a local artist, has his great 3D Gaslight (yes, it's actually in 3D) hanging. Go to the Gateway and check them out! The other murals will be going up in the next few weeks."
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