Dump Biden.

Red_Barchetta said:

 You are presenting a certainty about Biden's weaknesses that I for one cannot commit to.  

You can't commit to it now but I suspect that, before November, you will.  I only hope that you aren't too late.

I guess what I am saying to you Red is that I am not some wild eyed Berner telling you that Biden is as bad as Trump.  He isn't.

What I am is a pragmatist who is telling you that this election is just too important for us to throw away our only shot at victory.


jamie said:

The people voted - get over it!  

 You know, pro Biden folks keep saying this like a mantra but I am pretty sure that not a single one of the registered New Jersey voters in this forum has had the opportunity to vote on any of this.  It casts the sanctity of these supposedly inviolate elections ( and whatever Iowa was) into some doubt.


Morganna said:

 Consider it a reverse step over toe hold hijack. 

 I don't know what that is but it sounds pretty awesome.


If this was a Monty Hall problem, yes, one should switch from the initial selection. But it isn't.


Klinker said:

jamie said:

The people voted - get over it!  

 You know, pro Biden folks keep saying this like a mantra but I am pretty sure that not a single one of the registered New Jersey voters in this forum has had the opportunity to vote on any of this.  It casts the sanctity of these supposedly inviolate elections ( and whatever Iowa was) into some doubt.

ok, based on the current election year - Biden crushed Bernie - at this time he is the nominee - no one else has a chance.  And it is TRUE - People have voted.  This is the way our elections work in the USA - please let me know if I'm missing something.

It's not a mantra - it's more factual then anything else.


jamie said:

ok, based on the current election year - Biden crushed Bernie - at this time he is the nominee - no one else has a chance.  And it is TRUE - People have voted.  This is the way our elections work in the USA - please let me know if I'm missing something.

It's not a mantra - it's more factual then anything else.

 Biden is not the nominee until he is nominated by the Convention.  That is the way nominations work in the Democratic Party. The rules for the selection of the nominee are set by the party.  Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures.  Optimally, Biden will realize he is not up for the task and step aside.  If that does not happen, well, then something else will need to be done.


jamie said:

 Biden crushed Bernie 

Again, I am not suggesting that Bernie or any of the other primary candidates should replace Biden.


You seem very hung up on the mechanics of the thing.  At this point, I think it is more a simple matter of acknowledging as a party that we have made a terrible mistake and setting out to rectify it.


ok, I'll stupidly play along - please share the path for a new nominee and how exactly will the votes current votes for Biden get tossed?


jamie said:

please share the path for a new nominee and how exactly will the votes current votes for Biden get tossed?

 Well, if Biden dies, steps aside or is otherwise disqualified, there obviously has to be a mechanism for selecting a new nominee.  Optimally, Biden comes to his senses and steps aside.


jamie said:

ok, I'll stupidly play along 

You know, I do understand that each of your posts is put forth contemptuously.  You don't actually have to lay out that framework every time.  I mean, think of all the keystrokes!

Take a load off Dude.


Klinker said:

Again, I am not suggesting that Bernie or any of the other primary candidates should replace Biden.

 So could you explain to me people reading this why you started a thread with the title “Dump Biden”?


Klinker said:

jamie said:

The people voted - get over it!  

 You know, pro Biden folks keep saying this like a mantra but I am pretty sure that not a single one of the registered New Jersey voters in this forum has had the opportunity to vote on any of this.  It casts the sanctity of these supposedly inviolate elections ( and whatever Iowa was) into some doubt.

 Yeah,  but here in SC, we kinda voted for him...biggly !


Klinker said:

jamie said:

The people voted - get over it!  

 You know, pro Biden folks keep saying this 

 Sure, some of the people saying this are pro Biden.  I think most of them are pro Constitution. 


Klinker said:

At this point, I think it is more a simple matter of acknowledging as a party that we have made a terrible mistake and setting out to rectify it.

 I mean, if a bunch of folks who voted for Biden start saying they made a mistake, you have a point. Absent that, you're just just talking about your personal feelings in a weirdly overly-certain manner.


Dennis_Seelbach said:

 Yeah,  but here in SC, we kinda voted for him...biggly !

 Y'all voted for Trump even more biggly.  


Red_Barchetta said:

 Sure, some of the people saying this are pro Biden.  I think most of them are pro Constitution. 

 So, let me get this right.  Are you under the impression that the selection of nominees by political parties is somehow dictated by the US Constitution?  Could you please direct me to the relevant section?


PVW said:

 I mean, if a bunch of folks who voted for Biden start saying they made a mistake, you have a point. Absent that, you're just just talking about your personal feelings in a weirdly overly-certain manner.

 There aren't any people who voted for Biden in New Jersey. Not counting Dennis (and I never do count Dennis) I don't think anyone currently posting on MOL has cast a vote for Biden.  

ETA: Maybe Dave if he voted in the overseas primary


Jaytee said:

 So could you explain to me people reading this why you started a thread with the title “Dump Biden”?

 I think that, for the good of the nation in this time of unprecedented crisis,  Biden needs to be replaced with a candidate who has some hope of beating Donald Trump in November.  As I mentioned repeatedly, upthread, the person who replaces Biden should be drafted at the Convention and should not be selected from the candidates who ran in the primary.


Klinker said:

 So, let me get this right.  Are you under the impression that the selection of nominees by political parties is somehow dictated by the US Constitution?  Could you please direct me to the relevant section?

 That's just assholic.  You know what I meant.  I'm done here.  And although you don't know it, you are too.  


I am sad to see you self-destruct like this brother


basil said:

I am sad to see you self-destruct like this brother

 Well, it will bring me no joy to say "I told you" so on the second Wednesday in November.

You seem like a bright guy though.  I suspect you will come to your senses long before then.


Red_Barchetta said:

You know what I meant. 

I knew what you meant but you are wrong on a number of levels.  The Constitution set America up to function as a Republic, not a democracy as witnessed by the fact that the lady who got 3 million more votes in the last election is a private homeowner in New York while her opponent is infesting the White House.

You folks had no problem with this sort of thing last time around when HRC's supporters declared her the presumptive nominee based not on primary votes but on super delegate totals.  I wasn't too crazy about that in 2016 but the simple fact is that in 2020 our nation is engaged in an existential struggle that we cannot afford to lose.  Where there is a will there is a way and, if enough Democrats realize that nominating Biden is a path for certain defeat, we can still win this election.


Also, I did not mean my response to you to come off as dickish.  Its pretty late and you may have noticed that I have taken a bit of a beating here today.  I am confident that most of you will come around eventually, I just hope that it isn't too late.

ETA:  I did mean my response to Basil just now to come off as a bit dickish.  I think he has it coming. cheese


Klinker said:

Red_Barchetta said:

You know what I meant. 

I knew what you meant but you are wrong on a number of levels.  The Constitution set America up to function as a Republic, not a democracy ....


you really can't get much dumber than this statement. It's like the last bastion of the cornered.

Explain to us what this piece of malarkey is supposed to mean, and what relevance it has to ANY discussion of American politics, which, except for the bizarre nature of the EC, uses a democratic process 99.999999% of the time to reach decisions.  Even the EC is essentially Democratic - it's just designed with some screwy math which allows for non-democratic outcomes. But that doesn't have anything to do with whether we're a republic or a democracy.

Also, your argument that Biden is unelectable centers on the proposition that he is extra susceptible to Trump's attacks, for reasons that are quite unconvincing. You completely ignore the fact that, running against an incumbent, he is running extremely strongly in the polls - and this includes state polls.

But more importantly, you also ignore the fact, which I've pointed out before, that Republicans do not successfully attack based on R's weaknesses. They attack the candidate's strengths. Look at Gore -honesty. Look at Kerry - military record.  Look at Hillary - competence/scandal-free. Your reading of Presidential campaigning is completely wrong.


 


anyway klinker, the reason you're being accused of trolling is that this discussion is stuck, and the result is that you simply post the same thing over and over and over again. There's no development of ideas, no real discussion. You've become a johnny one-note - on an issue that is supported by only a tiny fringe of leftists. And based on history - has about a zero chance of ever happening.

I don't like Biden as a candidate. Haven't since he declared. But I also don't like "electability" arguments - Trump threw out every bit of that argument out the window and under the bus.

Any candidate is basically guaranteed about 40-43 percent of the vote just for breathing. The outcome depends on getting the votes of the muddled center - the votes of people who, by definition, pay no attention to politics except at the very barest of levels.

Getting those votes is a crapshoot. It's practically random for whom they will decide to vote.

The alternative to the crapshoot is getting turnout to increase - and yeah, Biden is probably not going to increase turnout by himself - but Trump himself might be enough this year to drive Dem turnout. It seemed to be a factor in 2018, and if anything Trump is in a far worse position than 2018.

The point being, again, is that your un-electable argument is unconvincing. Because no one who makes it this far is un-electable.


Klinker said:

PVW said:

 I mean, if a bunch of folks who voted for Biden start saying they made a mistake, you have a point. Absent that, you're just just talking about your personal feelings in a weirdly overly-certain manner.

 There aren't any people who voted for Biden in New Jersey. Not counting Dennis (and I never do count Dennis) I don't think anyone currently posting on MOL has cast a vote for Biden.  

ETA: Maybe Dave if he voted in the overseas primary

By the same token, then, you can hardly be talking about people from NJ when you say that "it is more a simple matter of acknowledging as a party that we have made a terrible mistake." Perhaps we should dismiss this thread for lack of standing?


Klinker said:

Dennis_Seelbach said:

 Yeah,  but here in SC, we kinda voted for him...biggly !

 Y'all voted for Trump even more biggly.  

The Democratic voters in South Carolina didn't vote vote for Trump "bigly"

(Perhaps you have them confused with the Bernie supporters who helped Trump win by staying negative about Hillary and then not voting for her)

This is like Bernie's idiocy in 2016.  He dismissed his losses in southern states by claiming they were more conservative than the Democratic party as a whole.  He completely ignored (and insulted) the actual Democrats who live in those states.  He never recovered, especially with the voters of those states who knew that he had deliberately insulted them with his ignorant characterization. 


Klinker said:

 I don't know what that is but it sounds pretty awesome.

"Reverse step over toe hold" is a goofy wrestling term. Or as my grandparents, from Hell's Kitchen used to say "rassling." Thought it went well with the concept of hijacking a thread.



@Klinker, in response to your hope that Biden would step aside,  " Optimally, Biden will realize he is not up for the task and step aside. If that does not happen, well, then something else will need to be done."  I'll repost what I said on another thread as we were discussing the Reade allegations which seem to have fizzled. That topic if it blew up might set in motion that scenario.

Reposting:

Here's how I see it. If there is anything there, I would bet that President Obama will ask privately for Biden to step aside. I would imagine that they have already had a conversation about the credibility of the allegation.

If that occurs the Democratic convention will be responsible for picking a viable candidate. I would imagine it would be impossible to organize an emergency primary, particularly with the complications of COVID 19. "



In order to add a comment – you must Join this community – Click here to do so.

Advertise here!

Sponsored Business

Find Business