Dump Biden.

Klinker said:

 Or just leave and let you guys be out of power for half a century.  We stick with you because we love our country, not because of any affection for you.

I couldn't give a **** if you leave or not.  Go find Nan and commiserate with her over your inability to get your ideas accepted by the majority of our party.    The failure here is yours.  


Aaaaaand that was Lock Down Day 54, ladies and jellyspoons. Thank you for coming! Please leave in an orderly fashion, mind your neighbors, and don't forget to tip your waitstaff


jamie said:

I think we're all a bit tired of the anti Biden trolling.  And it is moronic - your first post was pretty insulting to everyone on here.  lol

 Cool.  Just so long as we are clear on the standards.  There is some moronic activity happening here from my point of view as well.  I guess it is all a matter of perspective.


jamie said:

I think we're all a bit tired of the anti Biden trolling.  

I am kind of confused by your use of the term "trolling" here.  Are you suggesting that I am insincere and am just posting to upset people or are you simply saying that my opinions are unpopular and you don't want to hear them?


Repetitive action in the same location towards the same target is one way to define a troll.   You do it anti Biden.  nan did it anti-MSM.

Trolls repeat the same ideas, ignoring the responses posed by other users, so that members of the community then interpret this repetition as extreme stubbornness and sometimes believe that further interaction with the troll is futile.


Yet they continue to interact.

If people can’t read, reply to or disregard a commenter on terms they can live with happily, maybe the issue is theirs, not the commenter’s.


Remember how Hillary was a shoo in back in 2016?  Trump is the worst person and President in U.S. history.  The last three and a half years have made that abundantly clear.  But he was that horrible person his entire life and still became President.  Anyone who doesn't think he can win again is whistling past the graveyard.  I don't have a lot of confidence in many of my fellow Americans when I see a Trump rally and that nearly half the country thinks he is doing a good job.

I fear Biden could be the Democrats' Bob Dole.  Trump is ripe for the taking but the Democrats need someone sharp and combative, and who can punch the bully in the face.  This is going to be the ugliest campaign in history because there is no bar too low for someone like Trump, and he desperately wants to win merely for the sake of winning.  He no longer has the economy or low unemployment, so it's going to be attack the opponent and lie all the time.  And make no mistake, that's what a lot of his followers want and what a lot of people will fall for, particularly in those midwestern swing states.  

When Trump calls him "sleepy" Joe Biden or "creepy" Joe Biden, or some other schoolyard insult, Biden needs to call him "Clorox Don" or "Don the Con" and remind voters of the botched coronavirus response and it's only 15 people soon to be down to zero; the 25 credible complaints of sexual assault against Trump, the !@##$ grabber; the incompetence and grifting of the daughter and son in law; the revolving door at the White House and only hiring the "best people" who have been indicted, fired, or resigned in disgrace; Trump University; Trump stealing $2,000,000 from his charity and being ordered by a judge to re-pay it; 18,000 lies and counting; the great health care plan that was going to cover everyone for everything at a fraction of the cost and be enacted on day 1; the great, impenetrable wall on the southern border that was going to be built and paid for by Mexico; the great infrastructure plan that never materialized; Trump's in love with Kim Jong Un yet NK is still launching missiles and hasn't given up a thing and played Trump for the fool, etc., etc., etc.   

There is so much ammo with which to pound Trump, he could be demolished in a debate.   But when I hear Biden talk I get so frustrated.   He hems and haws and doesn't speak coherently or communicate well.  I'm always yelling - at no one in particular but usually the TV, when I hear him give some convoluted, milquetoast response to something Trump said or did - "No! This is what you say!"  

I know he's 77 years old and has lost a lot on his fastball, but there is so much at stake.  I hope he's up to the task but I'm very worried from what I've seen.

Biden can't be replaced nor should he be; he won the primary fair and square.  I will vote for him (I did not in the primary) but he is not instilling a lot of confidence and I don't know if he is up for this fight.  I hope i am wrong.


Klinker said:

I am kind of confused by your use of the term "trolling" here.

Why? Didn’t you see it coming?


jamie said:

Repetitive action in the same location towards the same target is one way to define a troll.   You do it anti Biden.  nan did it anti-MSM.

Trolls repeat the same ideas, ignoring the responses posed by other users, so that members of the community then interpret this repetition as extreme stubbornness and sometimes believe that further interaction with the troll is futile.

 Nan flooded every thread with basically the same post, even if the topic was only tangentially related. Klinker shares his POV on Biden on Biden threads and, when asked, avoids flooding every thread with the same points. While I don't share Klinker's POV on Biden, disagreeing like this seems to me part of the point of having message boards, and is quite different from Nan's making actual discussion impossible.


Klinker said:

sbenois said:

Sounds like sour grapes.

 Sounds like people who need a new party but won't leave the old one because they don't want to see the GOP dominate the country. We are sacrificing our values for you and your conservative democratic ilk every day and all we get for that sacrifice is abuse.

The current partisan structure simply does not work for Progressives but, as of yet, there are not viable alternatives to the lesser of two evils.

 All you had to do was come out and vote.  You didn't.  Bernie lost. 

Klinker

May 6, 2020 at 3:07pm

sbenois said:

Work harder. Thank you.

Or just leave and let you guys be out of power for half a century. We stick with you because we love our country, not because of any affection for you.

That's pretty harsh.  If you can't see a difference between the Republicans and the Democrats then there's no point in taking you seriously.  


Just saw a poll. Biden is 20 points higher than Trump among women. The media is treating that as good news. I'm thinking, "only 20 points?"


jamie said:

Repetitive action in the same location towards the same target is one way to define a troll.   You do it anti Biden.  nan did it anti-MSM.

Trolls repeat the same ideas, ignoring the responses posed by other users, so that members of the community then interpret this repetition as extreme stubbornness and sometimes believe that further interaction with the troll is futile.

 So, if my last 100 posts that were critical of Biden had been directed at Donald Trump, would that also be trolling or does the definition only apply when the posts are directed at a darling of the DNC?

If it is the former, I would submit that you have a serious troll problem around here and somehow, they just don't seem to be coming around to mtierney's point of view.  Stubborn of them.....


bettyd said:


When Trump calls him "sleepy" Joe Biden or "creepy" Joe Biden, or some other schoolyard insult, Biden needs to call him "Clorox Don" or "Don the Con" and remind voters of the botched coronavirus response and it's only 15 people soon to be down to zero; the 25 credible complaints of sexual assault against Trump, the !@##$ grabber; the incompetence and grifting of the daughter and son in law; the revolving door at the White House and only hiring the "best people" who have been indicted, fired, or resigned in disgrace; Trump University; Trump stealing $2,000,000 from his charity and being ordered by a judge to re-pay it; 18,000 lies and counting; the great health care plan that was going to cover everyone for everything at a fraction of the cost and be enacted on day 1; the great, impenetrable wall on the southern border that was going to be built and paid for by Mexico; the great infrastructure plan that never materialized; Trump's in love with Kim Jong Un yet NK is still launching missiles and hasn't given up a thing and played Trump for the fool, etc., etc., etc.   

There is so much ammo with which to pound Trump, he could be demolished in a debate.   But when I hear Biden talk I get so frustrated.   He hems and haws and doesn't speak coherently or communicate well.  I'm always yelling - at no one in particular but usually the TV, when I hear him give some convoluted, milquetoast response to something Trump said or did - "No! This is what you say!"  



 There is another possible strategy. Let Biden "take the high road" and let the VP candidate be the attack dog and/or leave the attacks to the PACS like the Lincoln Project by Anti-Trump Republicans or ones funded by Bloomberg and other Dem funders.


DaveSchmidt said:

Yet they continue to interact.

If people can’t read, reply to or disregard a commenter on terms they can live with happily, maybe the issue is theirs, not the commenter’s.

 I honestly would have thought that confining all of this to a single thread would have made the moderator happy.  Instead, it seems to have really pithed him off.


Klinker said:

 I honestly would have thought that confining all of this to a single thread would have made the moderator happy.  Instead, it seems to have really pithed him off.

 You are just the reincarnation of nan. You keep on posting continuously just like nan did. This addiction you have will send you to the madhouse. You have all the answers. Everyone else is a Biden troll, while you’re the biggest troll on MOL now. Go away klunker 


Klinker said:

 So, if my last 100 posts that were critical of Biden had been directed at Donald Trump, would that also be trolling or does the definition only apply when the posts are directed at a darling of the DNC?

Its called trolling and hijacking threads with an agenda.  period.  some of us would like have on topic discussions.


Klinker said:

jamie said:


 So, if my last 100 posts that were critical of Biden had been directed at Donald Trump, would that also be trolling or does the definition only apply when the posts are directed at a darling of the DNC?

If it is the former, I would submit that you have a serious troll problem around here and somehow, they just don't seem to be coming around to mtierney's point of view.  Stubborn of them.....

 Dude I just don't get you.  It seems like you're saying Biden and Trump are equally deserving of criticism / mockery.  And who's saying Biden is the darling of the DNC?  He won the primary.  That's it.  


jamie said:

Its called trolling and hijacking threads with an agenda.  period.  some of us would like have on topic discussions.

 I don't agree with you but I appreciate your point of view and your role in sustaining this community for all of these years.  That is why I started this thread and left your VP threads alone.  Like I said, I thought that would make you happy.  I am a little puzzled by your reaction.


Red_Barchetta said:

 Dude I just don't get you.  It seems like you're saying Biden and Trump are equally deserving of criticism / mockery.  And who's saying Biden is the darling of the DNC?  He won the primary.  That's it.  

 That certainly isn't what I am saying.  I was just pointing out that much of the discussion of Trump on the Rose Garden thread would meet moderator's definition of "trolling".  Its repetitive and it has one target.  I don't know if people ignore mtierney's responses but they certainly aren't swayed by them.

I understand that some (but evidently not all) of the posters here vehemently disagree with me.  That's ok. Disagreement can be a force that sustains conversations and those conversations can ultimately give rise to consensus (although they usually don't).  What I don't understand is why my continued viewpoint with regards to the future of the Biden campaign makes me a "troll" and, apparently, lifts the community standards with regards to personal insults directed at me by other posters and now, apparently the moderator. 

All I am saying is that there appears to be some inconsistency here.


That said, its the moderator's sand box and I just play in it.  If he really doesn't want to hear about my POV anymore, he can just ban me and be done with it.  If that's not where he's headed, maybe he could lay off the name calling.  Coming from the guy who's supposed to be in charge of enforcing community standards, its a bit much.


Morganna said:

Just saw a poll. Biden is 20 points higher than Trump among women. The media is treating that as good news. I'm thinking, "only 20 points?"

 Is that trending up or down since the rape allegation came out?


jamie said:

up

 Maybe its the contrast.  Rally around the guy with only one rape allegation.  

How did HRC do with that demographic in 2016?


are you nan?  lol  it's uncanny!


STANV said:

 There is another possible strategy. Let Biden "take the high road" and let the VP candidate be the attack dog and/or leave the attacks to the PACS like the Lincoln Project by Anti-Trump Republicans or ones funded by Bloomberg and other Dem funders.

 Although my first choice for Veep is Warren, I love Harris' prosecutorial style and I think she would eviscerate the opposition. I could be very happy with VP Harris.


Morganna said:

STANV said:

 There is another possible strategy. Let Biden "take the high road" and let the VP candidate be the attack dog and/or leave the attacks to the PACS like the Lincoln Project by Anti-Trump Republicans or ones funded by Bloomberg and other Dem funders.

 Although my first choice for Veep is Warren, I love Harris' prosecutorial style and I think she would eviscerate the opposition. I could be very happy with VP Harris.

 I've said it before but I think Harris is a solid candidate with a lot of appeal that may not be obvious to traditional thinkers.  She wouldn't  pith off progressives anymore than any other centrist candidate and she would be BOTH the first female African American President AND the first Asian American President when she assumed the presidency.  You don't often get the chance to make that much history.

That said, this is the "Dump Biden" thread.  I think the moderator would prefer that you take talk about Veep selections over to one of his threads.  I hope that doesn't sound snarky.


jamie said:

are you nan?  lol  it's uncanny!

 I hate to disappoint but I'm not really offended by the comparison. 

Of course, I still don't want to watch her videos. cheese

ETA: (If you really want to burn me, maybe you should try likening me to Dennis Seelbach.  That would be offensive)


Klinker said:

 I've said it before but I think Harris is a solid candidate with a lot of appeal that may not be obvious to traditional thinkers.  She wouldn't  pith off progressives anymore than any other centrist candidate and she would be BOTH the first female African American President AND the first Asian American President when she assumed the presidency.  You don't often get the chance to make that much history.

That said, this is the "Dump Biden" thread.  I think the moderator would prefer that you take talk about Veep selections over to one of his threads.  I hope that doesn't sound snarky.

 Consider it a reverse step over toe hold hijack. 


Klinker said:

Red_Barchetta said:

 Dude I just don't get you.  It seems like you're saying Biden and Trump are equally deserving of criticism / mockery.  And who's saying Biden is the darling of the DNC?  He won the primary.  That's it.  

 That certainly isn't what I am saying.  I was just pointing out that much of the discussion of Trump on the Rose Garden thread would meet moderator's definition of "trolling".  Its repetitive and it has one target.  I don't know if people ignore mtierney's responses but they certainly aren't swayed by them.

I understand that some (but evidently not all) of the posters here vehemently disagree with me.  That's ok. Disagreement can be a force that sustains conversations and those conversations can ultimately give rise to consensus (although they usually don't).  What I don't understand is why my continued viewpoint with regards to the future of the Biden campaign makes me a "troll" and, apparently, lifts the community standards with regards to personal insults directed at me by other posters and now, apparently the moderator. 

All I am saying is that there appears to be some inconsistency here.

 You are presenting a certainty about Biden's weaknesses that I for one cannot commit to.  You are using word choice and tone that is appropriate for Trump-level incompetence/malfeasance.   Perhaps if you were to take a step back and clarify why your opinions are so strongly held you might find better reception.  Yeah, he's a grabby old man.  Compared to what we're up against that's a fart in the wind. 


Red_Barchetta said:

 You are using word choice and tone that is appropriate for Trump-level incompetence/malfeasance.   Perhaps if you were to take a step back and clarify why your opinions are so strongly held you might find better reception.  Yeah, he's a grabby old man.  Compared to what we're up against that's a fart in the wind. 

 I think you are not understanding what I am saying.  Perhaps I am not explaining it well enough.

I am not suggesting that people should not vote for Biden because he is a bad person.  Hell, I intend on voting for him if he is still the nominee in November because, whatever his flaws, he would be a much better  president than Trump, if he could win.  

What I am saying is that Joe Biden should not be the Democratic Nominee BECAUSE HE CAN NOT WIN.

Biden's fundamental weaknesses with regard to corruption, honesty, mental health and sexual assault cancel each of the natural avenue of attack against Trump.  Obviously, he is nowhere near as bad as Trump in any of these arenas but the fact that he has at least some marginal vulnerability himself means that he cannot press an effective attack in any of them.  

At the same time, Trump will attack Biden on each of these issues with vigor and the bully's animal cunning that has characterized Trump's political career to this point.  Biden's diminished mental capacity combined with his verbal ineffectiveness will allow Trump to tear him apart.  By the time Trump gets done with Biden, even Hunter won't support him anymore.

Nothing is more important at this point than insuring that Trump does not win a second term.  The best way to do that is to make sure we have a candidate who can beat him.


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