Color/Feedback on Pingry/NA/Kent Place
DaveSchmidt said:
campbell29 said:
If you are looking for anything STEM related, you would not do well in MSO.
It’s possible to.
Possible shouldn’t necessarily be equated to what is everyday elsewhere. Our AP/Honors students have double lab periods every other day in brand new science labs. Our non honors students have lab every other day, just not double period. Have had kids in both here. Had a kid go through elementary and MS in MSO and a kid in elementary and MS and HS in NP, and there really is not a comparison with on site/off site school capability to deliver a more interactive, lab based experience. There is definitely an advantage to having newer buildings in that 2 -5 years ago we got science labs in elementary and a whole new STEM wing at the MS/HS.
gak
Hasn't the STEM fad passed by yet? One of the worst trends in education ever.
drummerboy said:
gak
Hasn't the STEM fad passed by yet? One of the worst trends in education ever.
Not really. For us, it doesn’t only mean engineering projects that can be simulated online, but also 3D .
I guess you can think that modeling, creating and executing something from start to finish is a bad trend, but it’s fairly well expected from sociology experiments to chemisty ones. And students applying to programs need the basics of lab procedures and experimental protocols .. hypothesis through ingredients through results through conclusions
STEM is about skill giving, teaching people to understand their material and teaching them how to best use it.
drummerboy said:
Hasn't the STEM fad passed by yet? One of the worst trends in education ever.
Right there with paddles, Aristotelian cosmology and private schools.
campbell29 said:
drummerboy said:
gak
Hasn't the STEM fad passed by yet? One of the worst trends in education ever.
Not really. For us, it doesn’t only mean engineering projects that can be simulated online, but also 3D .
I guess you can think that modeling, creating and executing something from start to finish is a bad trend, but it’s fairly well expected from sociology experiments to chemisty ones. And students applying to programs need the basics of lab procedures and experimental protocols .. hypothesis through ingredients through results through conclusions
STEM is about skill giving, teaching people to understand their material and teaching them how to best use it.
All the things you describe are things that have been taught in schools for a very, very long time.
It's called getting an education.
this thread pains me so much...
FWIW with STEM: The Columbia high school course offerings seem extensive and interesting, and there are pros and cons to attending:
My 10th grader at CHS is taking AP Statistics and the first year (out of two) of an engineering design course with Computer Aided Design (CAD) software (these worked out well in this remote environment).
Cons: (as indicated by @campbell29) Academic or Honors Bio/Physics/Chem labs, even in-person, are limited due to scheduling (no double periods) and aging facilities.
- However, the lack of double-periods for labs does allow students to add an extra elective course to their schedule (which my 10th grader took advantage of this year by being able to include both the Stats and CAD courses in his schedule).
- Also, AP science courses (Bio, Chem, Physics, and Environmental Science) do have a double period for labs.
Pros: There are many science and math courses offered, including Anatomy, Astronomy, Biochem, Forensic Science, AP Environmental Science, AP Psychology, Economics/Personal Finance/Entrepreneurship, Capital Markets and Investments, Architecture, AP Calculus, Calculus 3, Linear Algebra, Advanced Topics in Mathematics, AP Computer Science, CAD, Computer Graphics etc.
And @flimbro 's critiques are also well justified, as the SOMSD district has had difficulty providing an equitable learning experience for Black and brown kids - both academically and from a disciplinary standpoint. However, two major policy changes have occurred since his daughter was in middle school:
(1) Open access to advanced courses for all students: There are no longer gatekeeping barriers: teacher recommendation/test/application gatekeeping methods were completely removed. These gatekeepers had significantly segregated the course levels by race and socioeconomic status. Now any student may enroll in AP, Honors, or Academic courses of their choosing (some courses do require passing of a pre-req, or enrolling in a co-req.). My children (who are a couple years younger than flimbro's) have been the early beneficiaries of this policy change. It opens up opportunities without subjecting students to the stress, discouragement, or denial of entry that were inherent in the previous gatekeeping process.
(2) Disciplinary: A shift to a restorative practices focus from a punitive focus.
Implementation of these changes started off bumpy, but seem to have improved over the past couple years. The messaging to students is now geared towards encouraging enrollment in advanced coursework, which is very different from the exclusivity approach I had heard from the previous math supervisor prior to these policy changes.
I think the point is that people have their own reasons for the choices they make. Until we walk in their shoes, we are in no position to judge. Generalizations on either side are not helpful IMHO.\
This thread saddens me to no end. A parent from a different community asks a simple, innocent question and he/she is met with such vitriol and suspicion. There is an increasing tendency on MOL to go for the jugular and engage in public shaming. It's such a turnoff and mean spirited, as well as unwelcoming and not representative of the Maplewood I know. NJ parent please don't let the negativity of a few posters discourage you from moving to this area. I have wonderful neighbors from many different backgrounds and our opinions about the schools in this area are diverse, but we respect and listen to each other's opinions. We truly learn from each other and help each other to make decisions that are best for the children.
As far as the schools go, I have sent my kids to both private and public and have had good experiences in both. I also know many other people who have sent their children to all of the schools you mentioned and each has had a wonderful experience. The only consensus from having lengthy discussions with these parents is that science and math are not as rigorous as in the public high schools. For example, linear algebra or AP Physics B may not be offered, but you don't need this to graduate anyway. It's just limiting if your child is really into science or math. And truly, not everyone who sends their children to these schools is rich, far from it in fact. Many are on scholarships because they are gifted academically. Another great thing about private school is that the teachers and counselors really work together and try their hardest to help students get into the college of their choice. The admissions process is less stressful and there is more communication with parents. Some people value this more than anything else.
In any case, you should at least visit the school with your children to get a better sense of the curriculum and the student body and maybe ask the school to give you the names and numbers of parents who would be willing to speak with you and answer questions. Moving to a new community and trying to find a school that will make you and your children happy is not easy. I wish you the best of luck in this endeavor and hope you and your children will be welcomed and happy wherever you end up.
drummerboy said:
njparent said:
drummerboy said:
Color/Feedback .......
What does 'Color" mean in this context?
For you it means Green - the Color of Envy and Jealousy.
I venture an opinion on private schools, and you think I'm jealous of you?
wow.
Your "opinion" was hostile and antagonistic.
cubby said:
drummerboy said:
njparent said:
drummerboy said:
Color/Feedback .......
What does 'Color" mean in this context?
For you it means Green - the Color of Envy and Jealousy.
I venture an opinion on private schools, and you think I'm jealous of you?
wow.
Your "opinion" was hostile and antagonistic.
well maybe, but it's not like I attacked the OP. I attacked private schools.
But OK.
But for the OP to then assume I'm jealous of them is quite the tell.
Fan5 said:
This thread saddens me to no end. A parent from a different community asks a simple, innocent question and he/she is met with such vitriol and suspicion. There is an increasing tendency on MOL to go for the jugular and engage in public shaming. It's such a turnoff and mean spirited, as well as unwelcoming and not representative of the Maplewood I know. NJ parent please don't let the negativity of a few posters discourage you from moving to this area. I have wonderful neighbors from many different backgrounds and our opinions about the schools in this area are diverse, but we respect and listen to each other's opinions. We truly learn from each other and help each other to make decisions that are best for the children.
Thank you @Fan5 for your generous response. Choosing education options for your children is a very personal decision and I can understand that emotions can run high about the public vs private choice. It touches upon so many live wire topics like income, wealth, community etc. I probably could have been a little bit more careful to word my initial post in a way that it was not misinterpreted as being a humble brag but I have already explained that my reason for doing so was driven by the NYC school deadlines while not yet having NJ school decisions. Moreover people trying to put a racial angle on my request for "color/feedback" when it is a commonly prevailing usage of the term when seeking more detail on a topic angered me and I gave as good as I got. In the end I did end up receiving some good information from various posters for which I am grateful.
My experience is that parents should do what they think is best for their child and send them to the school where they determine their child will learn the best. My three kids all went to public schools and they did fine and got all the academic challenges they could handle, plus lots of clubs, sports, etc and they were ready for college. But I also have good friends who sent their kids to private schools and their kids also did fine.
One way to look at NJ is that we have lots of towns with lots of good school systems. NJ residents put a lot of emphasis and tax money into good schools, (we amongst the best in the country) and we are always looking and debating on how to improve the schools. For example, the reopening of the observatory at CHS is very exciting. Many public school districts are very competitive with private schools. Maplewood is a really nice town with good schools and also many parents who decide on the private school route. So, all the best to you and your family.
njparent said:
I mentioned it to pre-empt the question about discussing it after I knew they had options in NJ. Due to the timing of NYC school decisions there is a deadline to respond by Tuesday next week.
Regarding donations I think people over-estimate how much is required. Yes there will be a annual drive for donations, but there is no set minimum. Can being a big donor buy you more influence with the admin? Sure but that doesn't mean the kids of the small donors are getting a second class experience. Most of these schools have a fair bit of financial aid students (15%-20%) and are certainly more diverse (not just race but also economics) than affluent suburban public school districts. We won't be at the top of the wealth/income distribution at these schools but also not at the bottom so I think it will be OK. I have had a chance to interact with some parents coming from less affluent backgrounds at the NYC schools and everyone was full of praise for their child's experience. The schools really do make an effort to make sure that wealth of parents does not impact classroom/student dynamics.
P.S. I could honestly care less about what "upper class" mores are about this discussion. I am not trying to send anyone a signal of my social class and could care less if people find it too uncouth to ask pointed questions like this.
I just stumbled upon your question when trying to choose between NA & Kent Place. Which school did you end up going with? Are you happy? And sorry you got such a strange and hostile reaction. People here send their kids to all kinds of schools depending on their kids needs, family budget etc. I’ve never seen people get so weird about it in person.
This is either the saddest discussion ever or the most elaborate trolling.
njparent said:
While we have not heard back from these 3 NJ schools yet, based on my elder daughter's results so far from the NYC schools, we are optimistic of her chances at getting in (she got into Horace Mann, Spence, Nightingale and Riverdale for Grade 6). Her younger sister is applying for Grade 4 and was only eligible to apply to Nightingale where she did get in. I think her chances are good that she can get into Pingry and Kent Place as her academics and test scores are stronger.
I have been advocating for Spence/Nightingale or Horace Mann, but my wife prefers schools in NJ as she wants to move to a Essex or Morris County suburb instead of apartment living in NYC (we currently live in an apartment as well in Hudson County).
We are looking for strong breadth and depth across academics (esp. STEM which can sometimes be weak for private schools given their historical liberal arts focus), athletics (daughter has been pretty good in sprints so far where she has competed in AAU/USATF events at regional level), arts (daughter is pretty good in Piano, Painting and has recently shown a keen interest in making multimedia presentations/short movies), good distinguished speaker series, enriching EC Clubs with strong student participation.
My wife is very keen on sending them to Kent Place as she values a girls-only education and they have a older cousin already there. To me passing on Spence to go to Kent seems like a big step down. Kent Place also seems less diverse than Pingry and Newark Academy.
We don't want a total pressure cooker but we also don't want any compromises on academics. Maybe there is no best option. In general my older daughter is a strong, resilient kid and I think she can handle some academic pressure. I value excellence over other criteria (not just in academics but also the other areas mentioned), my wife is willing to make some tradeoffs there if she thinks kid will be overall happier.
Thanks in advance for any insight!
Is your older daughter applying for high school? Have you looked at boarding schools? I loved my BS experience. I also liked going to school away from my hometown friends.
I just realized this is an old post .... njparent - what did you decide?
ml1 said:
This is either the saddest discussion ever or the most elaborate trolling.
I would say, both/and rather than either/or. Brought to you by the usual suspects.
I know several families where one or more of the kids went to private schools for pretty specific reasons like being overwhelmed by the size of CHS and that sort of thing. And, certainly, parents who want to send their kids to private schools just because they want to should not be criticized.
However, I do feel a bit sorry for parents who, absent a specific reason for choosing private school, sincerely believe their child will suffer some sort of disadvantage in life if they don't attend private school.
There are quite a number of private school families here in these towns. I can assure you. Especially going into Covid where private school enrollment literally exploded as certain schools simply failed to timely reopen. One important thing to consider is transportation. These schools don’t typically provide busing. Amazing, I know, but unfortunately true. Unless you have a nanny or au pair or can shuttle them yourself, most towns (upon annual application) actually do provide transportation to out of district private schools but not South Orange Maplewood. Oh, no.
Well, they did prior to Covid but once Covid hit they pulled it and haven’t brought it back, citing “safety”, despite increasing intra-district bussing budget during the same time by 20+%. Guess Covid only affects private school kids. Truth is, the private school families are the low hanging fruit.
Good news, though, You’ll be eligible for the measly $1,000 annual transportation reimbursement from the school district (state mandated, mind you, certainly not out of the goodness of their hearts), but thats an opt in system not opt out, as in you have to affirmatively apply each year for that, as you do to apply for the transportation itself. Oh, and it’s broken up into two $500 checks, just in case you forget to ask for the other one.
Pingry is far out there in Martinsville (at least the Upper School is, the lower school is in Millburn, but the **** end) and not near a train so you’d have to consider transportation, but the facilities and curriculum is top notch. Easily the best private school reputation wise in this part of the State. NA is in Livingston out by the dying Liv Mall. I know Stephen Colbert sent at least one of his kids there so there’s that. Weird, you’d think he’d send his kid to Montclair public, but I digress. Kent Place and Oak Knoll (which is all girls and Catholic in the upper school) are walkable from the train in Summit and/or have a shuttle last I heard to and from the train. Delbarton (all boys, Catholic) is somewhat remotely located (from these parts), but has a shuttle from the Morristown train. Spectacular grounds and school. Not sure about the one in Montclair, MKS I believe, or Morristown Beard. There’s many others peppered around that you can google. One other great thing is as compared to NYC pvt tuition, it’s a huge discount out here and not nearly as fake woke (if what my buddies tell me about the nyc schools is true).
Have a great day!
BarneyGumble said:
There are quite a number of private school families here in these towns. I can assure you. Especially going into Covid where private school enrollment literally exploded as certain schools simply failed to timely reopen. One important thing to consider is transportation. These schools don’t typically provide busing. Amazing, I know, but unfortunately true. Unless you have a nanny or au pair or can shuttle them yourself, most towns (upon annual application) actually do provide transportation to out of district private schools but not South Orange Maplewood. Oh, no.
Well, they did prior to Covid but once Covid hit they pulled it and haven’t brought it back, citing “safety”, despite increasing intra-district bussing budget during the same time by 20+%. Guess Covid only affects private school kids. Truth is, the private school families are the low hanging fruit.
Good news, though, You’ll be eligible for the measly $1,000 annual transportation reimbursement from the school district (state mandated, mind you, certainly not out of the goodness of their hearts), but thats an opt in system not opt out, as in you have to affirmatively apply each year for that, as you do to apply for the transportation itself. Oh, and it’s broken up into two $500 checks, just in case you forget to ask for the other one.
Pingry is far out there in Martinsville (at least the Upper School is, the lower school is in Millburn, but the **** end) and not near a train so you’d have to consider transportation, but the facilities and curriculum is top notch. Easily the best private school reputation wise in this part of the State. NA is in Livingston out by the dying Liv Mall. I know Stephen Colbert sent at least one of his kids there so there’s that. Weird, you’d think he’d send his kid to Montclair public, but I digress. Kent Place and Oak Knoll (which is all girls and Catholic in the upper school) are walkable from the train in Summit and/or have a shuttle last I heard to and from the train. Delbarton (all boys, Catholic) is somewhat remotely located (from these parts), but has a shuttle from the Morristown train. Spectacular grounds and school. Not sure about the one in Montclair, MKS I believe, or Morristown Beard. There’s many others peppered around that you can google. One other great thing is as compared to NYC pvt tuition, it’s a huge discount out here and not nearly as fake woke (if what my buddies tell me about the nyc schools is true).
Have a great day!
There’s a reason these schools are in places not easily accessible by public transportation. I’m thinking anyone who can afford these schools have cars. Some have housekeeper/ nannies.
The OP obviously didn’t move to maplewood, I think Summit or Chatham would be a better location for his family,
True, Thankfully I received a State exemption to allow my Sixth Grader to drive our lambo back and forth, Took some doing.
BarneyGumble said:
I know Stephen Colbert sent at least one of his kids there so there’s that.
Colbert attended private school himself in Charleston, where he no doubt began honing the sarcasm that’s just another failing of our public education system.
“A good example that gives color to this is, during the Obama administration, they came to the United States and said, we want to set up an Asian infrastructure bank. Because we don’t think the World Bank has enough capacity to fund all the needs that we have in Asia. The Obama administration said, no, you won’t, and we will actively oppose this.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/04/podcasts/transcript-ezra-klein-interviews-fareed-zakaria.html
What a weird thing to say.
Jaytee said:
There’s a reason these schools are in places not easily accessible by public transportation. I’m thinking anyone who can afford these schools have cars. Some have housekeeper/ nannies.
The OP obviously didn’t move to maplewood, I think Summit or Chatham would be a better location for his family,
algebra2 said:
What a weird thing to say.
Jaytee said:
There’s a reason these schools are in places not easily accessible by public transportation. I’m thinking anyone who can afford these schools have cars. Some have housekeeper/ nannies.
The OP obviously didn’t move to maplewood, I think Summit or Chatham would be a better location for his family,
I agree that's weird. But I thought this complaint about transportation funds (which comes from all of our taxes) was weirder:
BarneyGumble said:
One important thing to consider is transportation. These schools don’t typically provide busing. Amazing, I know, but unfortunately true. Unless you have a nanny or au pair or can shuttle them yourself, most towns (upon annual application) actually do provide transportation to out of district private schools but not South Orange Maplewood. Oh, no.
Well, they did prior to Covid but once Covid hit they pulled it and haven’t brought it back, citing “safety”, despite increasing intra-district bussing budget during the same time by 20+%. Guess Covid only affects private school kids. Truth is, the private school families are the low hanging fruit.
Good news, though, You’ll be eligible for the measly $1,000 annual transportation reimbursement from the school district (state mandated, mind you, certainly not out of the goodness of their hearts), but thats an opt in system not opt out, as in you have to affirmatively apply each year for that, as you do to apply for the transportation itself. Oh, and it’s broken up into two $500 checks, just in case you forget to ask for the other one.
It appears $1,000 per year for private school transportation is the maximum allowable in NJ ( https://www.nj.gov/education/genfo/faq/faq_transportation.shtml ), and as BG indicates, you can apply for up to that maximum. .
Perhaps it used to cost less than $1000/private school student for the district to provide bussing. But now the district is planning to outsource bussing (there were significant district transportation issues at the beginning of this year): https://www.somsd.k12.nj.us/headlines/2021/09/23/somsd-transportation-updates/
Also, the SOMSD's district's bussing was increased for integration purposes. The integration plan was developed in response to a complaint from the U.S. Dept of Education Office for Civil Rights. SOMSD's voluntary integration approach failed, so this cash-strapped district now needs to do 'bussing' for integration.
These types of 'public school' issues may be the reason some choose to attend private schools. But as every dollar taken away from the district takes away resources for your neighbors' kids who do attend the public schools (and as the OP was already intending to send their child to a private school miles away upon moving to NJ) it seemed a bit weird to have many paragraphs of complaint.
I'm not sure why any funds should come out of the public school budget for private school busing, but so be it. Complaining that it's only a "measly" $1000 makes the person seem very bitter.
See N.J.S.A. 18A:39-1 and N.J.A.C. 6A:27. That’s why.
So sorry for multiple paragraphs. As I said, low hanging fruit.
algebra2 said:
those two towns are closer to the schools he’s looking for. What’s weird about that?
BarneyGumble said:
See N.J.S.A. 18A:39-1 and N.J.A.C. 6A:27. That’s why.
So sorry for multiple paragraphs. As I said, low hanging fruit.
so, how did you make out house hunting?
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Happy to answer any Summit questions. Have lived here pretty much forever.